Sound quality comparison: Andrew Hill

[Big Al]

A few years back, before I sold my Andrew Hill Mosaic* (needed emergency cash, and there were a few sessions I didn't care for), I made copies of sessions that have since been released as either RVGs or Conns. So, a question for those who've upgraded from the Mosaic. What, if any, are the differences in sound quality between the Mosaic and the subsequent reissues on the following titles:

Black Fire

Pax

Andrew!

Compulsion

Thanks!

*Edited to correct the time frame; the original post made it sound like I still own the set. It's been a few years since I sold that Hill Mosaic, and yes I've been kicking myself for it. I've learned my lesson, though: haven't sold any Mosaics since then. Of course, I haven't purchased very many either! Yet!

Edited June 10, 2007 by Big Al

[sidewinder]

I agree with Mike's comments Al and would probably sell the grandmother before parting with this particular Mosaic. As well as the fantastic booklet with nice Francis Wolff session shots, I particularly like the track ordering of the Mosaic. For example, CD 1 starting off with 'Land of Nod' is an amazing 'declaration of intent' that sets the scene for the rest of the set.

I find the sound of the CDs OK too - don't have any of the RVGs/Conns to compare only vinyl for these sessions. If I want high-end sonics I dig out the LPs. For back-to-back non-stop Hill listening pleasure, the Mosaic's the one.

[jazzbo]

I really like the RVGs and consider them an upgrade to the box set. . . The McMastered Conns sound okay but have that wide open thinness to the sound with a brittleness that I dislike from McMaster efforts.

Edited June 10, 2007 by jazzbo

[Claude]

As I write this, I'm listening to "Point of departure", which was an early RVG release (1999) with more extreme remastering choices. Compared to the Mosaic, it sounds very bright and thin. The bass notes are hard to follow, and the instruments are lacking body. This one should be avoided. As with most post-1963 Blue Note sessions, the sound is quite veiled. Maybe RVG tried to compensate this with the boosted treble on his remaster.

From my memory, the other RVGs are generally better balanced, but not necessarily an improvement over the Mosaic.

[Claude]

Now listening to "Black fire". The RVG has almost unbearably boosted treble, and slightly boosted bass. The Mosaic sounds much more natural.

On both RVGs, I can't hear any benefit from the new transfer. The only differences are the debatable EQ choices.

[Stefan Wood]

I haven't regretted selling my Hill Mosaic. Xeroxed the notes, got the RVGs and Connoisseurs for less than a 1/3 of what I sold the set for.

[jazzbo]

Now listening to "Black fire". The RVG has almost unbearably boosted treble, and slightly boosted bass. The Mosaic sounds much more natural.

On both RVGs, I can't hear any benefit from the new transfer. The only differences are the debatable EQ choices.

I agree about Point of Departure RVG; I don't like that session and never listen to it.

I hear the other RVG differently than you do though; I've adjusted my system so that most RVGs sound wonderful (and many ohter cds). . .though McMaster cds still aren't ones I can ease into listening, I"m getting there. I notice that we always differ on opinion on RVGs, which makes me scratch my head a bit, but makes me really appreciate my very flexible system. (No tone controls, but I can tailor the sound with vacuum tube choices and by adjusting the output of the ribbon tweeters on my "Radial" speakers).

Anyway Al: knowing your tastes as I think I do, I don't think you'll mind the sound on the separate cds.

[Claude]

BTW, it's worth noting that the Andrew Hill Mosaic set wasn't remastered by McMaster (as most of the Blue Note Mosaics), but by Odea Murphy and Malcolm Addey.

Edited June 10, 2007 by Claude

[jazzbo]

Right, it's one of the better sounding of the Blue Note Mosiacs. (What went wrong with the Lee Morgan?)

[Big Al]

You will regret selling that set, just as I regretted that I never got it! Please ask me first! And don't hesitate to call for the price you had in mind. I still can decide it's too much, but I wouldn't want to profit on your emergency (nothing too seriopus, I hope!).

Thanks for the concern, Mike. I've edited my original post.

No cash problems right now though (thank God)!

[Claude]

My last comparision: The Connoisseur release of "Pax" sounds very simlar to the Mosaic set. I like it a bit better, because it sounds a bit more dynamic and brighter than the box. "Eris", "Pax" and "Calliope", which were taken from second generation tapes, sound inferior on both discs.

[alppila]

I am considering selling this Mosaic set (have become very strapped for cash). Does anyone have a clue how much I could ask for it?

[J Larsen]

IMO, if sound quality is the only consideration then it isn't worth keeping the Mosaic given how much you could get for it on the collector's market. Point of Departure sounds a little better on the Mosaic, but for the other sessions I either prefer the individul cds (e.g. Compulsion) or find it to be a wash.

[J.A.W.]

IMO, if sound quality is the only consideration then it isn't worth keeping the Mosaic given how much you could get for it on the collector's market. Point of Departure sounds a little better on the Mosaic, but for the other sessions I either prefer the individul cds (e.g. Compulsion) or find it to be a wash.

I'm not so sure about the current value of the big Hill Mosaic box on the collector's market. Prices have fallen lately, and the last one went on eBay for under $180...

[J Larsen]

IMO, if sound quality is the only consideration then it isn't worth keeping the Mosaic given how much you could get for it on the collector's market. Point of Departure sounds a little better on the Mosaic, but for the other sessions I either prefer the individul cds (e.g. Compulsion) or find it to be a wash.

I'm not so sure about the current value of the big Hill Mosaic box on the collector's market. Prices have fallen lately, and the last one went on eBay for under $180...

Yes, and I don't think it is worth $180 for the sound quality improvement in Point of Departure, unless you got that much dough that has fallen behind every couch and seat cushion in your house without you even noticing. Just my opinion.

Again, this assumes that sound quality is the ONLY deciding factor.

Edited June 10, 2007 by J Larsen

[J.A.W.]

IMO, if sound quality is the only consideration then it isn't worth keeping the Mosaic given how much you could get for it on the collector's market. Point of Departure sounds a little better on the Mosaic, but for the other sessions I either prefer the individul cds (e.g. Compulsion) or find it to be a wash.

I'm not so sure about the current value of the big Hill Mosaic box on the collector's market. Prices have fallen lately, and the last one went on eBay for under $180...

Yes, and I don't think it is worth $180 for the sound quality improvement in Point of Departure, unless you got that much dough that has fallen behind every couch and seat cushion in your house without you even noticing. Just my opinion.

Again, this assumes that sound quality is the ONLY deciding factor.

That's not what I meant - I was trying to say that on the collector's market (like eBay) the big box was worth much more than what it appears to be now.

As for the sound quality: different ears, different systems, different listening rooms, different mastering methods etc., resulting in very different opinions. I also got offensive reactions in the past, so I'd rather stay out of that one.

Edited June 10, 2007 by J.A.W.

[J Larsen]

Sure - it makes sense that the price would fall now that all of the music is readily available.

BTW, I take back part of what I said before - Black Fire sounds better to me in the Mosaic as well. But I don't know that it sounds a couple hundred bucks better.

[mikeweil]

Thanks for the concern, Mike. I've edited my original post.

... and I've deleted mine - didn't want to appear too greedy for the set

[Big Al]

Thanks for the concern, Mike. I've edited my original post.

... and I've deleted mine - didn't want to appear too greedy for the set

You da man, Mike. Always nice to know I've got folks I can count on, and I hope you know that you can look at me the same way!

[ADR]

I haven't heard the Hill Mosaic, but I would echo the comments above re: the sound quality of the "Point of Departure" RVG.

I was just listening to the RVG of POD the other night and found it to be harshly bright to the point of distracting me from enjoyment of the music.

FWIW I was listening on Etymotic ER-4S headphones which have a reputation for nuetrality - ie revealing the true aspects of the recording/remastering.