Soul Stream Posted September 4, 2003 Report Posted September 4, 2003 I happened to pull out Horace Silver's "Finger Poppin'" and "The Horace Silver Trio" RVGs today and was reading Bob B.'s liners one after the other. Then I noticed something.... Both sets of liner notes start with the SAME SENTENCE!!!! "Selecting the most significant Horace Silver Quintet albums is a tricky business." ....yeah, and I guess so is selecting an opening sentence Bob. Anyway, then I get the new RVG of "Blue Train" today. I figure, wow, this is such a landmark album I bet Bob Blumenthal couldn't wait to sink his teeth into this one after wading through stuff like Green's "Am I Blue" and others (Hey, I love AIB, but it's certainly no BT). Well, I guess not. Bob starts off by going over the tedious, well-worn "Blue Note has 2 days rehearsal vs Prestige" warhorse. Man, for such a landmark Blue Note session, I can't believe he didn't do more with the liner notes. Time for Blue Note to bring in some new blood on these RVG liners imho. Quote
BruceH Posted September 4, 2003 Report Posted September 4, 2003 Blumenthal does seem to be writing them while half-asleep. It seems a little late for a replacement, but I'd nominate Gary Giddins or Ted Gioia. Quote
Christiern Posted September 4, 2003 Report Posted September 4, 2003 Have Leslie Gourse do them (notice, I didn't say write) and you'll end up with a text collage that is sure to include the work of at least one of your favorite writers. Quote
kenny weir Posted September 4, 2003 Report Posted September 4, 2003 Didn't Giddins express some misgivings about the whole RVG thing in the VV a few years back? Quote
Joe Posted September 4, 2003 Report Posted September 4, 2003 If only David Rosenthal were still alive... Quote
jpmosu Posted September 4, 2003 Report Posted September 4, 2003 Both sets of liner notes start with the SAME SENTENCE!!!! "Selecting the most significant Horace Silver Quintet albums is a tricky business." ....yeah, and I guess so is selecting an opening sentence Bob. Time for Blue Note to bring in some new blood on these RVG liners imho. As someone who, at least part of the time, makes his living teaching writing, this warmed my heart. Hey, I'd be perfectly happy if Michael Cuscuna wrote the RVG liners! john Quote
John Tapscott Posted September 4, 2003 Report Posted September 4, 2003 I happened to pull out Horace Silver's "Finger Poppin'" and "The Horace Silver Trio" RVGs today and was reading Bob B.'s liners one after the other. Then I noticed something.... Both sets of liner notes start with the SAME SENTENCE!!!! "Selecting the most significant Horace Silver Quintet albums is a tricky business." ....yeah, and I guess so is selecting an opening sentence Bob. I guess this is obvious, but the most ironic thing is that he re-uses this sentence for a TRIO album. I have generally enjoyed Bob's writing over the years and I think his Mosiac essays are pretty good (no doubt a bigger payday for those), but he has run out of gas on the RVG's. Granted it must be tough to write up every RVG like it's one of the 20 most significant Blue Note albums ever, but if you can't get up some enthusiasm for Blue Train, then I agree, it's time for BN to spread the work around. Quote
BruceH Posted September 4, 2003 Report Posted September 4, 2003 Didn't Giddins express some misgivings about the whole RVG thing in the VV a few years back? That's right, he did----thought Van Gelder was cheapening his name or some such. Guess that lets him off. And Ted Gioia would probably be a better candidate for West Coast Jazz liners. OK, that's it, they should get Kevin Lowenthal. Quote
pryan Posted September 5, 2003 Report Posted September 5, 2003 I happened to pull out Horace Silver's "Finger Poppin'" and "The Horace Silver Trio" RVGs today and was reading Bob B.'s liners one after the other. Then I noticed something.... Both sets of liner notes start with the SAME SENTENCE!!!! "Selecting the most significant Horace Silver Quintet albums is a tricky business." ....yeah, and I guess so is selecting an opening sentence Bob. I guess this is obvious, but the most ironic thing is that he re-uses this sentence for a TRIO album. Perhaps he's just displaying his copy and paste abilities. They seem quite sound, by the looks of it. Quote
Ed S Posted September 5, 2003 Report Posted September 5, 2003 I guess this is obvious, but the most ironic thing is that he re-uses this sentence for a TRIO album. I guess I wasn't paying attention so that detail slipped by me. That it's the opening line fot a trio record is kind of funny. Also brings up that quality control issue that seems to hound BN. Quote
BruceH Posted September 5, 2003 Report Posted September 5, 2003 I'm sure any of us would be willing to proofread for Blue Note for a reasonable rate of payment, am I right? Quote
Shrdlu Posted September 5, 2003 Report Posted September 5, 2003 Who needs these "A fresh look at" notes anyway? Just re-release the albums with the original notes. Quote
Soul Stream Posted September 5, 2003 Author Report Posted September 5, 2003 Who needs these "A fresh look at" notes anyway? Just re-release the albums with the original notes. I like a more recent perpective myself. A lot of times, the original liners seem a little dated in retrospect. New liners CAN give more insight into the circumstances and times which the artist made the music. However, just like anything (including the orginal notes), if the writer isn't into it....it shows...and at that point, you're right. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted September 5, 2003 Report Posted September 5, 2003 Back to the original post. I don't have the disc in question, so I can't answer the question, BUT if the next sentence is something like "with trio dates the landscape narrows", I can dig the repeat. Without knowing where it went, the first sentence is useless. Quote
DrJ Posted September 6, 2003 Report Posted September 6, 2003 (edited) Chuck hits the nail exactly on the head, guys, and took the words right out of my mouth. If you please, oh skeptics, go back and reread the entire first paragraph carefully...there is clearly no error on Blumenthal or Blue Note's part that he started out talking about quintets. There is a REASON he begins that way, and he ties in the trio issue pretty much as Chuck says (if not on the very next sentence). Now, WHO needs quality control in what they say in print? In this context I see nothing wrong with entering using a similar sentence. Musicians sometimes use pet licks, and this was an opening salvo he was happy with. I doubt he did it consciously. Given the departures after that on the two liners, I don't see anything wrong with this at all. As I've said before, I don't understand why the universally negative comments about Blumenthal's liners for this series...no they're not highly profound or of much use to many people who fancy themselves "experts," but that's not my take on who the RVG series (budget priced, mostly pretty classic titles, not limited edition, etc) is primarily or exclusively pitched at. For newbies, I still contend his discussions of other sessions recorded around the same time by principals on the dates and other basic historical info would be useful and welcome. Edited September 6, 2003 by DrJ Quote
Ed S Posted September 6, 2003 Report Posted September 6, 2003 (edited) Back to the original post. I don't have the disc in question, so I can't answer the question, BUT if the next sentence is something like "with trio dates the landscape narrows", I can dig the repeat. Without knowing where it went, the first sentence is useless. Well I don't have the disc either so I guess I should have kept my big mouth shut since Tony 's post clears it up. Edited September 7, 2003 by Ed Swinnich Quote
Soul Stream Posted September 6, 2003 Author Report Posted September 6, 2003 I guess I'll let you decide for yourself.... From "Finger Poppin'" Selecting the most significant Horace Silver Quintet albums is a tricky business. Silver was simply too consistent as pianist, composer and bandleader, particularly during the years when he maintained a permanent touring ensemble. Still, there are obvious benchmarks in the Silver Quintet story. The initial Jazz messenger sessions (1954-55) that defined his style; Six Pieces of Silver (56), by his own first working band and with his hit "Senor Blues"; and Song For My Father (63-64), when he introduced a totally revamped personnel and enjoyed his greatest commercial success, are obviously on the list. So is this album, wherein three members of what came to be considered the classic Horace Silver Quintet made their debut. From "Horace Silver Trio" Selecting the most significant Horace Silver Quintet albums is a tricky business. Ever since he began his career as a bandleader in 1956, it has been hard to think of the name Horace Silver without the word quintet attached. Silver's immediate and ongoing success in presenting a unit with a two-horn front line tempts us to overlook his earlier triumphs in the trio format, sessions that were the source of his initial popularity. To me, it doesn't look as if he's intentionally using the same opening sentence for effect. Just that the same sentence seemed like a good opening, two different times. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. To me, along with the "Blue Train" notes, it seems like he might be tiring. Quote
John Tapscott Posted September 6, 2003 Report Posted September 6, 2003 I guess I'll let you decide for yourself.... From "Horace Silver Trio"  Selecting the most significant Horace Silver Quintet albums is a tricky business. Ever since he began his career as a bandleader in 1956, it has been hard to think of the name Horace Silver without the word quintet attached. Silver's immediate and ongoing success in presenting a unit with a two-horn front line tempts us to overlook his earlier triumphs in the trio format, sessions that were the source of his initial popularity. To me, it doesn't look as if he's intentionally using the same opening sentence for effect. Just that the same sentence seemed like a good opening, two different times. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. To me, along with the "Blue Train" notes, it seems like he might be tiring. Seeing it in context actually makes it a bit worse, in my view. The opening sentence is superflous for the Trio album, because he doesn't go on to speak about any quintet albums. If he had started the trio notes with the second sentence it would be just fine. I agree with the poster who says that it looks like a cut and paste job. I think he opened the file for "Finger Poppin' in order to write the trio notes and forgot to cut the first sentence. Bob either needs an editor or a proof reader. I would gladly offer my services for the very cheap price of one CD. Quote
Ed S Posted September 6, 2003 Report Posted September 6, 2003 Seems to me that in the trio notes, he should have skipped his opening sentence and started with sentence number two. "Ever since he began his career......." The quintet reference doesn't fit at all and seems like he may have forgotten to delete it if perhaps he was using the Finger Poppin notes somehow as a template or as a contrasting piece. Quote
Swinging Swede Posted September 6, 2003 Report Posted September 6, 2003 seems like he may have forgotten to delete it if perhaps he was using the Finger Poppin notes somehow as a template Not the first time that has happened on a Blue Note reissue. The RVG of Midnight Blue gives the recording date as April 21, 1967 – obviously a leftover from the RVG of The Real McCoy which was in the same batch. Quote
BruceH Posted September 6, 2003 Report Posted September 6, 2003 seems like he may have forgotten to delete it if perhaps he was using the Finger Poppin notes somehow as a template Not the first time that has happened on a Blue Note reissue. The RVG of Midnight Blue gives the recording date as April 21, 1967 – obviously a leftover from the RVG of The Real McCoy which was in the same batch. Yikes!!! PROOFREADER, please! Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted September 6, 2003 Report Posted September 6, 2003 After reading the paragraph in question, I stand by my first posting. I like the use of the first sentence and do not believe it is an accident. There may be plenty of reasons to dislike the BB notes, but this seems like a bunch of ingrates to me. You get updated masterings by RVG (don't have to like or buy 'em), lower prices, original notes AND new notes. Complaints make me sad. We are our own worst enemy. Quote
Soul Stream Posted September 6, 2003 Author Report Posted September 6, 2003 After reading the paragraph in question, I stand by my first posting. I like the use of the first sentence and do not believe it is an accident. There may be plenty of reasons to dislike the BB notes, but this seems like a bunch of ingrates to me. You get updated masterings by RVG (don't have to like or buy 'em), lower prices, original notes AND new notes. Complaints make me sad. We are our own worst enemy. I never said I didn't like updated liner notes. However, I think getting some different perspectives (fresh) might not be a bad idea. Variety. I'm not nitpicking. The same sentence in the two liner notes just stuck out as I happened to be reading them back to back. That's all. Seemed a bit odd. I'm not saying Bob B. sucks, ect....crying out....screaming at the gods. Ingrate? Rather harsh. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted September 6, 2003 Report Posted September 6, 2003 Ingrate? Rather harsh. Thirty-five years ago one of my employees nicknamed me "Nails" as in "hard as nails". I think that is fair, as I think "ingrates" is fair. My first choice was whiners, and toned it down to ingrates. Quote
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