Barry Bonds quest for HR record

[Dan Gould]

I hope you're ready to take it in the shorts when Bonds is exonerated.

Do not expect to see You Tube video of this.

Dream on, Goodie

Good point.

Work on your reading comprehension, Goodie. He's not saying there won't be youtube video of me taking it in the shorts - he's saying there won't be any video of Bonds getting exonerated cause he'll be getting convicted.

See that's why he said "dream on".

No.

I think he means you won't actually admit when you are WRONG, big boy.

Deal with it.

Well if Chuck doesn't come back to clarify (and who could blame him), try and use your mind and think about it. You said

I hope you're ready to take it in the shorts when Bonds is exonerated.

Do not expect to see You Tube video of this.

Dream on, Goodie

Why would YouTube video exist of me "taking it in the shorts"?

Whereas, obviously, there would be YouTube video of a jury of his peers saying "GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!"

You are imagining his exoneration like you imagine that he didn't use steroids and they don't help anyway.

[Dan Gould]

there are definitely some positive blood tests the feds are sitting on,

perhaps team physicalsor blood tests at the start of each season, or blood samples for baroid's several infirmities.

baroid has painted a bullseye on his own chest.

this appears to be much more substantial than a 'ham sandwich' indictment from a local D.A.

do i somewhat smell the odor of one certain bush, jr., championing the sanctity of his beloved 'baseball,' too late to do this jr. any good?

He has already admitted to using the "Clear" when it wasn't illeagal to do so.

I'll bet you dollars to donut holes that is the positive tests the feds are presenting.

You still have no grasp of the facts. That isn't surprising, nor is it that you have no grasp of spelling.

Bonds has never acknowledged using the "Clear" or any steroid whatsoever. The illegality of it has nothing to do with a charge of perjury.

[Chalupa]

[Matthew]

there are definitely some positive blood tests the feds are sitting on,

perhaps team physicalsor blood tests at the start of each season, or blood samples for baroid's several infirmities.

baroid has painted a bullseye on his own chest.

this appears to be much more substantial than a 'ham sandwich' indictment from a local D.A.

do i somewhat smell the odor of one certain bush, jr., championing the sanctity of his beloved 'baseball,' too late to do this jr. any good?

He has already admitted to using the "Clear" when it wasn't illeagal to do so.

I'll bet you dollars to donut holes that is the positive tests the feds are presenting.

You still have no grasp of the facts. That isn't surprising, nor is it that you have no grasp of spelling.

Bonds has never acknowledged using the "Clear" or any steroid whatsoever. The illegality of it has nothing to do with a charge of perjury.

Interesting section from the ESPN legal expert:

Are there any surprises in the indictment?

Most of the material in the indictment is familiar to anyone who has followed the BALCO investigation, but there is one surprise. The surprise is that, according to the indictment, during the criminal investigation evidence was obtained, including positive tests for steroids and other performance-enhancing substances for Bonds and other professional athletes. When asked about it in front of the grand jury, Bonds denied a positive test. It will be one of the most difficult charges for Bonds to deny. He will be scientifically connected to a positive test with DNA and other techniques.

It doesn't look good for Bonds at the moment...

[Dan Gould]

there are definitely some positive blood tests the feds are sitting on,

perhaps team physicalsor blood tests at the start of each season, or blood samples for baroid's several infirmities.

baroid has painted a bullseye on his own chest.

this appears to be much more substantial than a 'ham sandwich' indictment from a local D.A.

do i somewhat smell the odor of one certain bush, jr., championing the sanctity of his beloved 'baseball,' too late to do this jr. any good?

He has already admitted to using the "Clear" when it wasn't illeagal to do so.

I'll bet you dollars to donut holes that is the positive tests the feds are presenting.

You still have no grasp of the facts. That isn't surprising, nor is it that you have no grasp of spelling.

Bonds has never acknowledged using the "Clear" or any steroid whatsoever. The illegality of it has nothing to do with a charge of perjury.

Interesting section from the ESPN legal expert:

Are there any surprises in the indictment?

Most of the material in the indictment is familiar to anyone who has followed the BALCO investigation, but there is one surprise. The surprise is that, according to the indictment, during the criminal investigation evidence was obtained, including positive tests for steroids and other performance-enhancing substances for Bonds and other professional athletes. When asked about it in front of the grand jury, Bonds denied a positive test. It will be one of the most difficult charges for Bonds to deny. He will be scientifically connected to a positive test with DNA and other techniques.

It doesn't look good for Bonds at the moment...

Its also interesting about the perjury charge based on a denial of using anything that involved an injection. Do they have evidence of steroid use for injectables specifically? Or do they actually have syringes with DNA material?

I love how his lawyers are bitching about leaks and "unethical misconduct" (as opposed to the ethical kind!). None of that has any legal significance at trial (beyond the fact that it was Conti's own defense lawyer who fessed up to being the source for the grand jury testimony, not the prosecutor's office). They can talk all they want but at trial they are going to have to deal with mountains of evidence siezed at BALCO and elsewhere. The crap about "misconduct" amounts to an attempt to poison the jury pool and their only hope (and I have to admit, its always a possibility) is Jury Nullification or a hung jury because they make sure they get some moronic Giants fans who don't care what the evidence is, he's "our Barry".

I am still waiting to hear something definitive about the tax evasion charges. Did the Grand Jury refuse to indict? Did the prosecutors only ask for a vote on the perjury charges? I'd say if it turns out that the Grand Jury has been dismissed, then they didn't come up with the goods on the tax charges, which is a big positive for Bonds. If they are still impaneled, then the possibility of a superseding indictment has to be considered.

[Matthew]

there are definitely some positive blood tests the feds are sitting on,

perhaps team physicalsor blood tests at the start of each season, or blood samples for baroid's several infirmities.

baroid has painted a bullseye on his own chest.

this appears to be much more substantial than a 'ham sandwich' indictment from a local D.A.

do i somewhat smell the odor of one certain bush, jr., championing the sanctity of his beloved 'baseball,' too late to do this jr. any good?

He has already admitted to using the "Clear" when it wasn't illeagal to do so.

I'll bet you dollars to donut holes that is the positive tests the feds are presenting.

You still have no grasp of the facts. That isn't surprising, nor is it that you have no grasp of spelling.

Bonds has never acknowledged using the "Clear" or any steroid whatsoever. The illegality of it has nothing to do with a charge of perjury.

Interesting section from the ESPN legal expert:

Are there any surprises in the indictment?

Most of the material in the indictment is familiar to anyone who has followed the BALCO investigation, but there is one surprise. The surprise is that, according to the indictment, during the criminal investigation evidence was obtained, including positive tests for steroids and other performance-enhancing substances for Bonds and other professional athletes. When asked about it in front of the grand jury, Bonds denied a positive test. It will be one of the most difficult charges for Bonds to deny. He will be scientifically connected to a positive test with DNA and other techniques.

It doesn't look good for Bonds at the moment...

Its also interesting about the perjury charge based on a denial of using anything that involved an injection. Do they have evidence of steroid use for injectables specifically? Or do they actually have syringes with DNA material?

I love how his lawyers are bitching about leaks and "unethical misconduct" (as opposed to the ethical kind!). None of that has any legal significance at trial (beyond the fact that it was Conti's own defense lawyer who fessed up to being the source for the grand jury testimony, not the prosecutor's office). They can talk all they want but at trial they are going to have to deal with mountains of evidence siezed at BALCO and elsewhere. The crap about "misconduct" amounts to an attempt to poison the jury pool and their only hope (and I have to admit, its always a possibility) is Jury Nullification or a hung jury because they make sure they get some moronic Giants fans who don't care what the evidence is, he's "our Barry".

I am still waiting to hear something definitive about the tax evasion charges. Did the Grand Jury refuse to indict? Did the prosecutors only ask for a vote on the perjury charges? I'd say if it turns out that the Grand Jury has been dismissed, then they didn't come up with the goods on the tax charges, which is a big positive for Bonds. If they are still impaneled, then the possibility of a superseding indictment has to be considered.

I'm also wondering about the tax evasion issue. For Bonds, that would be a more serious charge than the perjury because that would definitely involve jail time if convicted. I also wonder at the timing of the indictment, the DAs office had all the information for a longtime, and with the new DA finally pushing the process, I think the office made a concession to Bonds by not bringing charges during the season. Also, I don't see any team wanting Bonds now with this over his head -- can you imagine the circus that having Bonds on your team would involve? I think we've seen the last of Bonds in a baseball uniform.

Late edit for grammar and spelling: must not have made the coffee strong enough this morning.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Matthew

[Chalupa]

Very strange factoid about Victor Conte.......

In the 1970s, Conte had played bass guitar in the group Tower of Power and collaborated with pianist Herbie Hancock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Conte

[Dan Gould]

I'm also wondering about the tax evasion issue also. For Bonds, that would be a more serious charge than the perjury because that would definitely involve jail time if convicted. I also wonder at the timing of the indictment, the DAs office has all the information for a longtime, and with the new DA finally pushing the process, I think the office made a concession to Bonds by not bring charges during the season. Also, I don't see any team wanting Bonds now with this over his head -- can you imagine the circus that having Bonds on your team would involve? I think we've seen the last of Bonds in a baseball uniform.

That is what I think too, but I just read an incredibly stupid AP piece that basically said it does nothing to stop him from playing next year, on the basis that baseball can't act to suspend based on an indictment, and that other players have been "caught" and given second chances. The idiot even claims that the Union could charge "collusion" if he doesn't get signed by someone. It is unbelievable to me that an AP editor would not hand it back and say, "yes, but what about the fact that its been widely reported that few teams were going to be interested in Bonds and the circus atmosphere he brings even before the indictment, plus the fact that if he goes to trial, he could very well have to leave his team for three weeks in the middle of the season? Your column completely ignores these issues!"

See for yourself:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/arti...onds_off_field/

[BERIGAN]

[Jazzmoose]

Very strange factoid about Victor Conte.......

In the 1970s, Conte had played bass guitar in the group Tower of Power and collaborated with pianist Herbie Hancock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Conte

Now that is jaw dropping! Does this mean that steroid use is hip?

[Matthew]

I'm also wondering about the tax evasion issue also. For Bonds, that would be a more serious charge than the perjury because that would definitely involve jail time if convicted. I also wonder at the timing of the indictment, the DAs office has all the information for a longtime, and with the new DA finally pushing the process, I think the office made a concession to Bonds by not bring charges during the season. Also, I don't see any team wanting Bonds now with this over his head -- can you imagine the circus that having Bonds on your team would involve? I think we've seen the last of Bonds in a baseball uniform.

That is what I think too, but I just read an incredibly stupid AP piece that basically said it does nothing to stop him from playing next year, on the basis that baseball can't act to suspend based on an indictment, and that other players have been "caught" and given second chances. The idiot even claims that the Union could charge "collusion" if he doesn't get signed by someone. It is unbelievable to me that an AP editor would not hand it back and say, "yes, but what about the fact that its been widely reported that few teams were going to be interested in Bonds and the circus atmosphere he brings even before the indictment, plus the fact that if he goes to trial, he could very well have to leave his team for three weeks in the middle of the season? Your column completely ignores these issues!"

See for yourself:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/arti...onds_off_field/

I simply cannot believe these complete, utter, stupid comments I'm reading in this article:

"It stinks for him, you know," former Giants teammate Steve Kline said. "I don't feel happy for it. It's bad for baseball. The witch hunt was out there for a long time. They were trying to get him on anything. I feel bad for Barry and his family."

"I'm not a legal expert or a legal analyst, but there's a big bull's-eye on Barry Bonds just for the fact that he is as good as he is," Mets star David Wright said Thursday night.

So, according to these guys, Bonds has done nothing but be a great player, and because of this, the government is after him to put him in jail. Un-freeking-believable.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Matthew

[Dan Gould]

Important news flash for Goodie:

From Foxsports.com:

How will the government go about making its case when trying to prove Bonds committed perjury?

They have to prove that Bonds gave false testimony that he knew to be false at the time he gave it.

One thing they can use is the results of lab analyses of specimens that Greg Anderson took from Bonds and submitted for testing. They can also use the testimony of his former girlfriend, who according to media reports has stated that Bonds told her that he had used steroids. (Note that since this was a statement by Bonds against his own criminal interests, it is not hearsay and the girlfriend's testimony would be admissible in court.)

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7452894

[robviti]

Indictment, inschmitement....you still gotta prove it. Good luck with that.

Besides, I have always maintained that if Barry Bonds was proven guilty of taking steroids then I would be the first to admit it.

Proving perjury is going to be one helluva a hard sell, Dan.

you're not putting your faith in bonds' innocence, but in the hopes that it won't be possible to prove his guilt.

[Jazzmoose]

So, according to these guys, Bonds has done nothing but be a great player, and because of this, the government is after him to put him in jail. Un-freeking-believable.

Well, in defense of the quoted baseball players, professional ball players as a group might not be considered the sharpest knives in the drawer...

[Dan Gould]

So, according to these guys, Bonds has done nothing but be a great player, and because of this, the government is after him to put him in jail. Un-freeking-believable.

Well, in defense of the quoted baseball players, professional ball players as a group might not be considered the sharpest knives in the drawer...

Very true, and I think Boston Herald columnist Tony Massarotti got it exactly right:

So what did Bonds do? Granted immunity while testifying before a grand jury in the now-infamous BALCO case, Bonds denied ever using steroids, brand-name or designer. Faced with a government investigation, the guy was actually dumb enough to play dumb, which puts him below even someone like Jason Giambi in the world’s intellectual hierarchy.

[Aggie87]

So, according to these guys, Bonds has done nothing but be a great player, and because of this, the government is after him to put him in jail. Un-freeking-believable.

Well, in defense of the quoted baseball players, professional ball players as a group might not be considered the sharpest knives in the drawer...

That's defending them?

[Tim McG]

I'm also wondering about the tax evasion issue also. For Bonds, that would be a more serious charge than the perjury because that would definitely involve jail time if convicted. I also wonder at the timing of the indictment, the DAs office has all the information for a longtime, and with the new DA finally pushing the process, I think the office made a concession to Bonds by not bring charges during the season. Also, I don't see any team wanting Bonds now with this over his head -- can you imagine the circus that having Bonds on your team would involve? I think we've seen the last of Bonds in a baseball uniform.

That is what I think too, but I just read an incredibly stupid AP piece that basically said it does nothing to stop him from playing next year, on the basis that baseball can't act to suspend based on an indictment, and that other players have been "caught" and given second chances. The idiot even claims that the Union could charge "collusion" if he doesn't get signed by someone. It is unbelievable to me that an AP editor would not hand it back and say, "yes, but what about the fact that its been widely reported that few teams were going to be interested in Bonds and the circus atmosphere he brings even before the indictment, plus the fact that if he goes to trial, he could very well have to leave his team for three weeks in the middle of the season? Your column completely ignores these issues!"

See for yourself:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/arti...onds_off_field/

I simply cannot believe these complete, utter, stupid comments I'm reading in this article:

"It stinks for him, you know," former Giants teammate Steve Kline said. "I don't feel happy for it. It's bad for baseball. The witch hunt was out there for a long time. They were trying to get him on anything. I feel bad for Barry and his family."

"I'm not a legal expert or a legal analyst, but there's a big bull's-eye on Barry Bonds just for the fact that he is as good as he is," Mets star David Wright said Thursday night.

So, according to these guys, Bonds has done nothing but be a great player, and because of this, the government is after him to put him in jail. Un-freeking-believable.

Basically, that's it.

Unless the feds go after Sosa, McGuire, Palmerio, Gagne, Canseco, Giambi or whomever, this nothing more than a witch hunt. Pure and simple.

Why, you have to ask, is Bonds targeted and nobody else?

IMO, the complete lack of intelligent discourse here on this point is astounding.

[Indestructible!]

Basically, that's it.

Unless the feds go after Sosa, McGuire, Palmerio, Gagne, Canseco, Giambi or whomever, this nothing more than a witch hunt. Pure and simple.

Why, you have to ask, is Bonds targeted and nobody else?

IMO, the complete lack of intelligent discourse here on this point is astounding.

[papsrus]

Unless the feds go after Sosa, McGuire, Palmerio, Gagne, Canseco, Giambi or whomever, this nothing more than a witch hunt. Pure and simple.

Why, you have to ask, is Bonds targeted and nobody else?

IMO, the complete lack of intelligent discourse here on this point is astounding.

But this all tracks back to Balco. Marion Jones was tied up in Balco as well, and apparently lied to a grand jury, then eventually came clean. She'll likely do time for the same offense Bonds is charged with. So, to extend your argument, what you seem to be saying is that unless the feds go after every track athlete, they are unfairly targeting Jones? ... I don't quite buy that.

Lying to Congress and lying to a federal grand jury are two different things (as has been well demonstrated on a daily basis.) Unless there's sufficient evidence to prosecute those others for lying to a grand jury, your argument seems to be a non-starter.

[Tim McG]

I hope you're ready to take it in the shorts when Bonds is exonerated.

Do not expect to see You Tube video of this.

Dream on, Goodie

Good point.

Work on your reading comprehension, Goodie. He's not saying there won't be youtube video of me taking it in the shorts - he's saying there won't be any video of Bonds getting exonerated cause he'll be getting convicted.

See that's why he said "dream on".

No.

I think he means you won't actually admit when you are WRONG, big boy.

Deal with it.

Well if Chuck doesn't come back to clarify (and who could blame him), try and use your mind and think about it. You said

I hope you're ready to take it in the shorts when Bonds is exonerated.

Do not expect to see You Tube video of this.

Dream on, Goodie

Why would YouTube video exist of me "taking it in the shorts"?

Whereas, obviously, there would be YouTube video of a jury of his peers saying "GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!"

You are imagining his exoneration like you imagine that he didn't use steroids and they don't help anyway.

Once again for clarity, I never said Bonds didn't use steroids.

What I did say was there is no substantiated or physical proof that he had.

Proving perjury is a smoke screen to the real issues at hand. The feds had no choice but to indict Bonds....how else do they justify the wasted tax dollars on this sham investigation? Obviously, the goal here is [as it was with Clinton] is to tie an albatross around Bonds' neck in an effort to tarnish his career. They have an uphill battle to prove perjury and they know it, but the feds can embarrass the guy and they will. Just like they did with President Clinton.

That makes this a witch hunt and of the shoddiest kind.

Edited November 16, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[alocispepraluger102]

Unless the feds go after Sosa, McGuire, Palmerio, Gagne, Canseco, Giambi or whomever, this nothing more than a witch hunt. Pure and simple.

Why, you have to ask, is Bonds targeted and nobody else?

IMO, the complete lack of intelligent discourse here on this point is astounding.

But this all tracks back to Balco. Marion Jones was tied up in Balco as well, and apparently lied to a grand jury, then eventually came clean. She'll likely do time for the same offense Bonds is charged with. So, to extend your argument, what you seem to be saying is that unless the feds go after every track athlete, they are unfairly targeting Jones? ... I don't quite buy that.

Lying to Congress and lying to a federal grand jury are two different things (as has been well demonstrated on a daily basis.) Unless there's sufficient evidence to prosecute those others for lying to a grand jury, your argument seems to be a non-starter.

jones will get less time than bonds because she cooperated with the feds.

the bonds penalties may be more severe because he kicked sand on the feds shoes and didnt(yet) play ball with them.

Edited November 16, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[Soulstation1]

there's only one way dan and good speak will resolve their disputes

an "I Quit" Steel Cage Match with Stone Cold Steve Austin as special guest referee

and that's the bottom line................................................................

[alocispepraluger102]

there's only one way dan and good speak will resolve their disputes

an "I Quit" Steel Cage Match with Stone Cold Steve Austin as special guest referee

and that's the bottom line................................................................

actually, i feel they are the same person merely amusing themself.

[Tim McG]

Unless the feds go after Sosa, McGuire, Palmerio, Gagne, Canseco, Giambi or whomever, this nothing more than a witch hunt. Pure and simple.

Why, you have to ask, is Bonds targeted and nobody else?

IMO, the complete lack of intelligent discourse here on this point is astounding.

But this all tracks back to Balco. Marion Jones was tied up in Balco as well, and apparently lied to a grand jury, then eventually came clean. She'll likely do time for the same offense Bonds is charged with. So, to extend your argument, what you seem to be saying is that unless the feds go after every track athlete, they are unfairly targeting Jones? ... I don't quite buy that.

Lying to Congress and lying to a federal grand jury are two different things (as has been well demonstrated on a daily basis.) Unless there's sufficient evidence to prosecute those others for lying to a grand jury, your argument seems to be a non-starter.

I don't buy that and neither should you.

Lying to Congress has brought retribution to numerous people dating back to the Rosenburgs [sic] commie scare days. The feds are playing selective rerasoning only because Bonds is a record holder. It makes a splashier headline and diverts attention away from Iraq, gas prices and the piss poor economy. No more, no less.

As to prosecuting every track athlete, the only ones targeted have been, again, the record holders. So, yes, I believe this stuff is selectively and unfairly applied and only to nail the stars. I am certain you cannot believe only the top athletes have used steriods....so it only follows that this is the case relative to prosecution.

Edited November 16, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

there's only one way dan and good speak will resolve their disputes

an "I Quit" Steel Cage Match with Stone Cold Steve Austin as special guest referee

and that's the bottom line................................................................

Nah.

Paper wads at 20 paces.