Barry Bonds quest for HR record

[Dan Gould]

Um... I said "shades" of racism. Did he bring a lot of this on himself by being an arrogant asshole? Of course. But if you guys have read some of the comments about him that I've seen, the sheer venom towards him is just pure racial hate.

Can you refer to these specific "racist" comments? I've missed anyone who called him "gorilla" or "monkey" or the N-word.

Personally, I've never understood the investment of time and energy that Bonds-haters use to deride him. He gets it like no other athlete I've seen. If he's on the juice, more likely than not, he will pay for it when his body breaks down and turns against him as he ages. Meanwhile, Roger Clemens' head and shoulders continue to expand every year and his fastball gets better every half-season he plays. I haven't heard any outcry about that. Just my 2 cents.

If Bonds were less of a contemptible asshole, he probably would get less derision. But take a completely unsympathetic character and add overwhelming evidence of cheating, and you might get derision that doesn't have a damn thing to do with race.

As for Clemens, the fact of the matter is that his fastball has declined steadily for many years. He threw in the mid and even upper 90s when he was young but has not for several years. There was commentary about this when he signed with the Yankees and returned to the AL. He has succeeded because of his splitter and his ability to spot his fastball. And I say that as someone who would love to find out that Clemens' post-Red Sox success was steroid driven.

[Van Basten II]

I thought this thread was dead with the record being broken and all but since it seems it will go on 'til cows will fly...

...gonna put my two cents in it, i feel like that in most big money sports, performance enhancements are part of the business, either you take some and you keep your job or you lose it because some young prick who is better than you is gonna take it away from you.

However, it's one thing to enhance yourself in a way that allows you to remain competitive and active. But it's one thing to do it in a way that you make accomplishments that almost nobody beleives that you really did it without being juiced. That's one of the reason of all the anger towards Bonds. To the purists he makes a mockery of the game.

Also what does not help is the fact that he is a PR nightmare with his assholic attitude. And even among his pers he stands up as the poster boy and the king of arrogant prickish behaviour. Considering that most baseball players are as likeable as Central American dictators, that is maybe a bigger feat than the home run record itself.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Van Basten II

[T.D.]

I thought this thread was dead with the record being broken and all but since it seems it will go on 'til cows will fly...

...gonna put my two cents in it, i feel like that in most big money sports, performance enhancements are part of the business, either you take some and you keep your job or you lose it because some young prick who is better than you is gonna take it away from you.

However, it's one thing to enhance yourself in a way that allows you to remain competitive and active. But it's one thing to do it in a way that you make accomplishments that almost nobody beleives that you really did it without being juiced. That's one of the reason of all the anger towards Bonds. To the purists he makes a mockery of the game.

Also what does not help is the fact that he is a PR nightmare with his assholic attitude. And even among his pers he stands up as the poster boy and the king of arrogant prickish behaviour. Considering that most baseball players are as likeable as Central American dictators, that is maybe a bigger feat than the home run record itself.

Word.

[Dan Gould]

Also what does not help is the fact that he is a PR nightmare with his assholic attitude. And even among his pers he stands up as the poster boy and the king of arrogant prickish behaviour. Considering that most baseball players are as likeable as Central American dictators, that is maybe a bigger feat than the home run record itself.

"Most ballplayers"? Let me guess - you struck out when you tried to get some autographs, because the players thought you were doing it only so that you could sell them?

There's no doubt that there are plenty of assholes in the major leagues, I have a very hard time with the idea that "most ballplayers are as likeable as Central American dictators". At most, I might agree that every roster has a jerk or two.

[T.D.]

... Considering that most baseball players are as likeable as Central American dictators...

I've actually read items by a number of sports media people expressing precisely this opinion. Especially those who have covered both baseball and hockey (in which the players are much more personable)...

Edited September 26, 2007 by T.D.

[Jazzmoose]

I'm going to the game tonight. He is the greatest IMO. This witchhunt has shades of racism in it, if you ask me.

Yes, because I loved and followed that great white player, Hank Aaron...

[Jazzmoose]

Um... I said "shades" of racism. Did he bring a lot of this on himself by being an arrogant asshole? Of course. But if you guys have read some of the comments about him that I've seen, the sheer venom towards him is just pure racial hate.

Well, duh, of course the racists in our country don't like him because he's black. What the hell does that have to do with anyone else's reaction?

[Tim McG]

No doubt it is the perfect result.

After Bonds is indicted and convicted, the Hall can put together the perfect display to summarize this sad era:

Bonds going from scrawny rookie to monstrous hulk

His hat size swelling

syringes, etc.

Shots of his homers, culminating in 756

Pictures of his perp walk

Pictures of him in his orange jump suit

The ball, branded with an asterisk

Uh-huh.

Right after they rewrite the US Constitution where it mentions some pesky little details about Due Process, the right to face your accuser, the right to a fair trial, search and seizure laws relative to actual evidence not hearsay or ex-girlfriends and allowing close minded dupes with a hard-on for hate to think they are above the law.

One such person in particular posts on this very BBS.

Hm.

Edited September 27, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

No doubt it is the perfect result.

After Bonds is indicted and convicted, the Hall can put together the perfect display to summarize this sad era:

Bonds going from scrawny rookie to monstrous hulk

His hat size swelling

syringes, etc.

Shots of his homers, culminating in 756

Pictures of his perp walk

Pictures of him in his orange jump suit

The ball, branded with an asterisk

Uh-huh.

Right after they rewrite the US Constitution where it mentions some pesky little details about Due Process, the right to face your accuser, the right to a fair trial, search and seizure laws relative to actual evidence not hearsay or ex-girlfriends and allowing close minded dupes with a hard-on for hate to think they are above the law.

One such person in particular posts on this very BBS.

Hm.

What a joke. Implicit in the display was a fair trial by a jury of his peers - it occurs in between the perp walk and the orange jumpsuit, just so you know, Goodie.

And in that trial, he'll get to confront his accusers. There won't be much to discuss in terms of "search and seizure" law since all of the evidence from the raids on BALCO, etc. were made pursuant to legal search warrants. So that pesky calendar of doping, the one labelled "BLB" that showed dates and cities which somehow corresponded to the Giants road schedule, well, that will all come in.

As will any testimony from his mistress, as will bank records which will show how Bonds took cash payments from card shows, never declared it as income, and gave it to the woman with instructions to make deposits in increments under $10000, so that the Feds won't be on to her.

I can imagine what the defense will say:

That BITCH! That lying, dirty, stinking BITCH!

Uh, Mr. Bonds, what about these dates of those card shows, and the bank records that confirm her story? She made $40,000 a year, how could she afford such a huge down payment on a $500,000 condo?

That BITCH! That lying, dirty stinking BITCH!

[Van Basten II]

... Considering that most baseball players are as likeable as Central American dictators...

I've actually read items by a number of sports media people expressing precisely this opinion. Especially those who have covered both baseball and hockey (in which the players are much more personable)...

You took the words out of my keyboard... most people who cover pro sports would say baseball and soccer( Football for the rest of the worlld) players are among the biggest jerks around regarding how they behave towards anybody that does not fit into their clique...

[Tim McG]

No doubt it is the perfect result.

After Bonds is indicted and convicted, the Hall can put together the perfect display to summarize this sad era:

Bonds going from scrawny rookie to monstrous hulk

His hat size swelling

syringes, etc.

Shots of his homers, culminating in 756

Pictures of his perp walk

Pictures of him in his orange jump suit

The ball, branded with an asterisk

Uh-huh.

Right after they rewrite the US Constitution where it mentions some pesky little details about Due Process, the right to face your accuser, the right to a fair trial, search and seizure laws relative to actual evidence not hearsay or ex-girlfriends and allowing close minded dupes with a hard-on for hate to think they are above the law.

One such person in particular posts on this very BBS.

Hm.

What a joke. Implicit in the display was a fair trial by a jury of his peers - it occurs in between the perp walk and the orange jumpsuit, just so you know, Goodie.

And in that trial, he'll get to confront his accusers. There won't be much to discuss in terms of "search and seizure" law since all of the evidence from the raids on BALCO, etc. were made pursuant to legal search warrants. So that pesky calendar of doping, the one labelled "BLB" that showed dates and cities which somehow corresponded to the Giants road schedule, well, that will all come in.

As will any testimony from his mistress, as will bank records which will show how Bonds took cash payments from card shows, never declared it as income, and gave it to the woman with instructions to make deposits in increments under $10000, so that the Feds won't be on to her.

I can imagine what the defense will say:

That BITCH! That lying, dirty, stinking BITCH!

Uh, Mr. Bonds, what about these dates of those card shows, and the bank records that confirm her story? She made $40,000 a year, how could she afford such a huge down payment on a $500,000 condo?

That BITCH! That lying, dirty stinking BITCH!

I see.

So.....ex-girlfriend's hissy-fits [who have an ax to grind over boob implants] and the potential money she lost after getting pushed off of the Bonds gravy train would be something the Grand Jury and the court system of our country should take at face value and without question.

Righty-O.

Dan, buddy....your own credibility on this issue has just been shot to hell.

Well done.

Edited September 27, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

... Considering that most baseball players are as likeable as Central American dictators...

I've actually read items by a number of sports media people expressing precisely this opinion. Especially those who have covered both baseball and hockey (in which the players are much more personable)...

You took the words out of my keyboard... most people who cover pro sports would say baseball and soccer( Football for the rest of the worlld) players are among the biggest jerks around regarding how they behave towards anybody that does not fit into their clique...

Exactly.

Which is why we are hearing about this bullshit 24-7 in the media.

Barry Bonds pissed some asshole reporter off who thought he had some God given right to be a big, giant dick....and the rest is history.

Sports reporters are jackasses.

Edited September 27, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

Dan, buddy....your own credibility on this issue has just been shot to hell.

Funniest. Post. Ever.

Also the least self-aware statement ever made.

[Jazzmoose]

Dan, buddy....your own credibility on this issue has just been shot to hell.

Funniest. Post. Ever.

Also the least self-aware statement ever made.

If he keeps throwing you pitches like that, you might be able to break the record, Dan!

[Tim McG]

Dan, buddy....your own credibility on this issue has just been shot to hell.

Funniest. Post. Ever.

Also the least self-aware statement ever made.

If he keeps throwing you pitches like that, you might be able to break the record, Dan!

Nah.

That last one was a little chin music.....next one's comin' inside at the knees.

Besides, I am certain he already holds the record for snide remarks on this BBS: A new low in uncivil behavior.

Edited September 27, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[trane_fanatic]

I'm going to the game tonight. He is the greatest IMO. This witchhunt has shades of racism in it, if you ask me.

Yes, because I loved and followed that great white player, Hank Aaron...

Now THAT is hysterical! *slaps knees*

Um... I said "shades" of racism. Did he bring a lot of this on himself by being an arrogant asshole? Of course. But if you guys have read some of the comments about him that I've seen, the sheer venom towards him is just pure racial hate.

Well, duh, of course the racists in our country don't like him because he's black. What the hell does that have to do with anyone else's reaction?

Oh I forgot, all sports fans are non-racist.

Edited September 27, 2007 by trane_fanatic

[trane_fanatic]

You may want to try something called a Google search. I am not going to post hateful remarks on here.

Um... I said "shades" of racism. Did he bring a lot of this on himself by being an arrogant asshole? Of course. But if you guys have read some of the comments about him that I've seen, the sheer venom towards him is just pure racial hate.

Can you refer to these specific "racist" comments? I've missed anyone who called him "gorilla" or "monkey" or the N-word.

Personally, I've never understood the investment of time and energy that Bonds-haters use to deride him. He gets it like no other athlete I've seen. If he's on the juice, more likely than not, he will pay for it when his body breaks down and turns against him as he ages. Meanwhile, Roger Clemens' head and shoulders continue to expand every year and his fastball gets better every half-season he plays. I haven't heard any outcry about that. Just my 2 cents.

If Bonds were less of a contemptible asshole, he probably would get less derision. But take a completely unsympathetic character and add overwhelming evidence of cheating, and you might get derision that doesn't have a damn thing to do with race.

As for Clemens, the fact of the matter is that his fastball has declined steadily for many years. He threw in the mid and even upper 90s when he was young but has not for several years. There was commentary about this when he signed with the Yankees and returned to the AL. He has succeeded because of his splitter and his ability to spot his fastball. And I say that as someone who would love to find out that Clemens' post-Red Sox success was steroid driven.

"...doesn't have a damn thing to do with race." Hmm... you would think he was a murderer or child molester the way he is "dissed" in the media and elsewere and I am in total agreement that the guy is not the most gracious fellow.

As for Clemens, the radar guns in the Bronx must be lying then. He was in the 90s in the game I saw. Dan, seriously, you seem to have an unhealthy fixation with Bonds. Let it go, my man. Find some hobbies for a change.

Edited September 27, 2007 by trane_fanatic

[Jazzmoose]

Oh I forgot, all sports fans are non-racist.

How silly. Your comment suggested that most sports fans (or at least the anti-Bonds ones) were racist. I never said none of them were, but to paint the whole crowd with your broad brush was absurd.

[Aggie87]

Whatever the general % of racist people there are in this country, I'd be willing to bet that the same percentage exist in the category of baseball fans (edit - maybe even less, given that it's known there are minorities who play baseball, that may drive some of the racists away).

I fail to see why that makes people who believe Barry Bonds cheated racists. I'm sure there are racists who think he cheated, as well as non-racists who think he cheated.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Aggie87

[Tim McG]

I fail to see how anyone can convict a man on holier-than-thou puritanical motivations, unsubstantiated claims and shoddy evidence.

[trane_fanatic]

Oh I forgot, all sports fans are non-racist.

How silly. Your comment suggested that most sports fans (or at least the anti-Bonds ones) were racist. I never said none of them were, but to paint the whole crowd with your broad brush was absurd.

Whatever the general % of racist people there are in this country, I'd be willing to bet that the same percentage exist in the category of baseball fans (edit - maybe even less, given that it's known there are minorities who play baseball, that may drive some of the racists away).

I fail to see why that makes people who believe Barry Bonds cheated racists. I'm sure there are racists who think he cheated, as well as non-racists who think he cheated.

How does me saying there are "shades" of racism and having seen a few hateful comments here and there qualify as painting most sports fans with a racist brush or make all Bonds-haters racists? Are the majority of them purely against him because of the fact that he allegedly used steroids and is insufferable? More than likely. When I made the tongue-in-cheek comment about "Oh I forgot, all sports fans are non-racist" --- I was replying to Jazzmoose's suggestion that racists were separate from the witchhunt. Talk about a straw man.

[trane_fanatic]

I fail to see how anyone can convict a man on holier-than-thou puritanical motivations, unsubstantiated claims and shoddy evidence.

My thoughts exactly.

[Aggie87]

I'm sure if Barry Bonds played his whole career for the Astros, I'd be spouting offering up similar defenses of him.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Aggie87

[Dan Gould]

You may want to try something called a Google search. I am not going to post hateful remarks on here.

Ah, perhaps I should try "Barry Bonds is a damn nigger" and see if that comes up with any hits.

I'll say it flat out:

I don't know of any racist comments about Barry Bonds anywhere, though I will admit that I have not gone and done any searches on the Klan's BBS.

What I do know is that certain people, lining up these facts:

Bonds isn't much liked by a lot of people

Bonds "set" the season and career home run records

Bonds is black

and have come to the conclusion that criticism of Bonds is, in some undetermined proportion, driven by racial animus.

I say bull shit. Whether the race card is played with a broad stroke or the phrase "shades of", its simple an effort to deflect the legitimate criticism and factual basis for a belief that he cheated.

[Tim McG]

You may want to try something called a Google search. I am not going to post hateful remarks on here.

Ah, perhaps I should try "Barry Bonds is a damn nigger" and see if that comes up with any hits.

I'll say it flat out:

I don't know of any racist comments about Barry Bonds anywhere, though I will admit that I have not gone and done any searches on the Klan's BBS.

What I do know is that certain people, lining up these facts:

Bonds isn't much liked by a lot of people

Bonds "set" the season and career home run records

Bonds is black

and have come to the conclusion that criticism of Bonds is, in some undetermined proportion, driven by racial animus.

I say bull shit. Whether the race card is played with a broad stroke or the phrase "shades of", its simple an effort to deflect the legitimate criticism and factual basis for a belief that he cheated.

Criticism is NOT proof, Dan.

[hellooooooo]

When are you going to wake up to that fact?