Unissued Ornette

[Late]

Ornette Coleman Quartet

Ornette Coleman (as) Charlie Haden, David Izenzon (b) Charles Moffett (d)

"Village Theatre", NYC, March 17, 1967

The Little Symphony

Just For You

A Capella For Three Wise Men And A Saint

Buddha Lives

Love And Sex

Atavism

European Echoes

Apparently this gig was part of the Forms and Sounds session but was never released. I'm assuming that RCA no longer has the tapes, and that Ornette does. Would love to hear it. Was anyone here at the gig?

There's another live New York gig that occurred shortly before the one above. It too would be great to hear:

Ornette Coleman Trio

Ornette Coleman (as, tp, vln) David Izenzon (b) Charles Moffett (d, vib)

Fall 1966 - New York City

Faces And Places

Sadness

Morning Song

Bass Improvisation, I

Morning Song (alt. take)

Bass Improvisation, II

Alone And Arrest

European Echoes

European Echoes (alt. take)

This made it out as a bootleg in Japan, I guess: Vap-VPLR 70353

Another one, at least on paper, that seems worthy of hearing.

[AllenLowe]

not me- I was only 12 - but Nessa's a LOT older than me so he was probably sitting in the back -

Edited April 26, 2007 by AllenLowe

[B. Clugston]

There's another live New York gig that occurred shortly before the one above. It too would be great to hear:

Ornette Coleman Trio

Ornette Coleman (as, tp, vln) David Izenzon (b) Charles Moffett (d, vib)

Fall 1966 - New York City

Faces And Places

Sadness

Morning Song

Bass Improvisation, I

Morning Song (alt. take)

Bass Improvisation, II

Alone And Arrest

European Echoes

European Echoes (alt. take)

This made it out as a bootleg in Japan, I guess: Vap-VPLR 70353

Another one, at least on paper, that seems worthy of hearing.

I would be curious to hear the bass improv. Izenson had a solo bass piece that was supposed to be on the Town Hall concert on Blue Note, but wound up in condensed form on ESP.

[.:.impossible]

Aside from the bass improvisations, I am curious about the fact that Moffett plays vibraphone here.

???

[Late]

Aside from the bass improvisations, I am curious about the fact that Moffett plays vibraphone here.

???

I noticed that too. There are few examples around (The Gift on Savoy, also an ESP session) of Moffett's vibes playing — he generally likes to play the thing loud!

Edited April 26, 2007 by Late

[ep1str0phy]

It was the first Charles Tyler ESP, IIRC. He also seems to play xylophone on the Golden Circle sides ("Morning Song")... though that could just be tinny vibes (haven't heard the sides in a while).

[Chuck Nessa]

not me- I was only 12 - but Nessa's a LOT older than me so he was probably sitting in the back -

Nah, if I'd been there I'd be right up front. Don't you know I'm a pushy guy?

[clifford_thornton]

It was the first Charles Tyler ESP, IIRC. He also seems to play xylophone on the Golden Circle sides ("Morning Song")... though that could just be tinny vibes (haven't heard the sides in a while).

I thought they were a miniature set of vibes, but I am not completely sure.

The Gift is a mofo.

[Late]

Also of note — our friends in Spain are about to release the complete Hillcrest recordings of Ornette and Paul Bley. I usually resist buying Gambit/Lonehill/Nutter-Butter CDs, but, as I've never heard this material, I may have to dig up my credit card from the spot I buried it in the back lawn.

[David Ayers]

Also of note — our friends in Spain are about to release the complete Hillcrest recordings of Ornette and Paul Bley. I usually resist buying Gambit/Lonehill/Nutter-Butter CDs, but, as I've never heard this material, I may have to dig up my credit card from the spot I buried it in the back lawn.

To my mind, with Ornette the unlicensed recordings are a big part of the story (as with many major jazz artists). If I were you, I certainly wouldn't miss this. In fact, even though I have the vinyls I'll probably pick one up myself when it appears.

BTW, with reference to the original discussion, Get Back is Italian, not Spanish.

Edited April 27, 2007 by David Ayers

[AllenLowe]

"our friends in Spain are about to release the complete Hillcrest recordings of Ornette and Paul Bley."

hmmm.....could this be unauthorized? I know Paul told me he wanted to put them out but couldn't get clearances (the tapes belong to him) - of course, if I buy this IT WOULD BE WRONG, THAT'S FOR SURE* - unless a copy just happens to fall off the truck in front of my house -

*R. Nixon, Watergate tapes

Edited April 27, 2007 by AllenLowe

[Late]

Also of note — our friends in Spain are about to release the complete Hillcrest recordings of Ornette and Paul Bley. I usually resist buying Gambit/Lonehill/Nutter-Butter CDs, but, as I've never heard this material, I may have to dig up my credit card from the spot I buried it in the back lawn.

To my mind, with Ornette the unlicensed recordings are a big part of the story (as with many major jazz artists). If I were you, I certainly wouldn't miss this. In fact, even though I have the vinyls I'll probably pick one up myself when it appears.

BTW, with reference to the original discussion, Get Back is Italian, not Spanish.

Yes, I won't miss it. There's mention of the Get Back label on this thread? It's Gambit that's releasing the Hillcrest recordings. Of course, if the Siberia label Jhunip released the recordings, I'd buy it from them.

Edited April 27, 2007 by Late

[ghost of miles]

if I buy this IT WOULD BE WRONG, THAT'S FOR SURE* -

*R. Nixon, Watergate tapes

Talk about unauthorized! Have those gotten the Mosaic treatment yet? (with the quote as the title... and liners by Chuck Colson, John Dean, and Garry Trudeau)

[John L]

Lonehill, Gambit, and the like often celebrate great music with 50-year anniversay reissues.

Authorized? Well, of course.

Edited April 27, 2007 by John L

[ep1str0phy]

Also of note — our friends in Spain are about to release the complete Hillcrest recordings of Ornette and Paul Bley. I usually resist buying Gambit/Lonehill/Nutter-Butter CDs, but, as I've never heard this material, I may have to dig up my credit card from the spot I buried it in the back lawn.

To my mind, with Ornette the unlicensed recordings are a big part of the story (as with many major jazz artists). If I were you, I certainly wouldn't miss this. In fact, even though I have the vinyls I'll probably pick one up myself when it appears.

BTW, with reference to the original discussion, Get Back is Italian, not Spanish.

Yes, I won't miss it. There's mention of the Get Back label on this thread? It's Gambit that's releasing the Hillcrest recordings. Of course, if the Siberia label Jhunip released the recordings, I'd buy it from them.

I've resisted purchasing the slew of Ornette bootlegs that have recently been dumped onto the market, although a fought a pretty hard battle for a CD copy of The Fabulous Paul Bley Quintet on ebay a while back (not that expensive in the end). As much as I want to hear the rest of the sessions, if it's on one of the "sordid" labels, I don't think I'm going to be picking it up (as if there weren't enough to listen to as it is). Come to think of it, I don't know of any CD releases of the rest of the Hillcrest material (that is, outside of the stuff on Fabulous)...

[David Ayers]

Also of note — our friends in Spain are about to release the complete Hillcrest recordings of Ornette and Paul Bley. I usually resist buying Gambit/Lonehill/Nutter-Butter CDs, but, as I've never heard this material, I may have to dig up my credit card from the spot I buried it in the back lawn.

To my mind, with Ornette the unlicensed recordings are a big part of the story (as with many major jazz artists). If I were you, I certainly wouldn't miss this. In fact, even though I have the vinyls I'll probably pick one up myself when it appears.

BTW, with reference to the original discussion, Get Back is Italian, not Spanish.

Yes, I won't miss it. There's mention of the Get Back label on this thread? It's Gambit that's releasing the Hillcrest recordings. Of course, if the Siberia label Jhunip released the recordings, I'd buy it from them.

I've resisted purchasing the slew of Ornette bootlegs that have recently been dumped onto the market, although a fought a pretty hard battle for a CD copy of The Fabulous Paul Bley Quintet on ebay a while back (not that expensive in the end). As much as I want to hear the rest of the sessions, if it's on one of the "sordid" labels, I don't think I'm going to be picking it up (as if there weren't enough to listen to as it is). Come to think of it, I don't know of any CD releases of the rest of the Hillcrest material (that is, outside of the stuff on Fabulous)...

In the days of vinyl I'm not sure how many enthusiasts used to worry about these issues or were even aware of them. We have to 'blame' Bley himself for the licensing irregularity of the short-lived IAI title (which, you're right, has never been on CD). I'm not sure what the issues were on the related America release.

Of the various Ornette boots which I have heard, NO ONE should spend a cent on Stating the Case - a total rip off. Unpresentable sound by any standard, and side two is the same as side one, minus one track for the sake of 'disguising' this fact visually.

[dave9199]

Of the various Ornette boots which I have heard, NO ONE should spend a cent on Stating the Case - a total rip off. Unpresentable sound by any standard, and side two is the same as side one, minus one track for the sake of 'disguising' this fact visually.

I have this on a cdr. what i thought was interesting was a version of the song Skies Of America which, to me, doesn't sound at all like the released version and I LOVE that version.

[David Ayers]

Of the various Ornette boots which I have heard, NO ONE should spend a cent on Stating the Case - a total rip off. Unpresentable sound by any standard, and side two is the same as side one, minus one track for the sake of 'disguising' this fact visually.

I have this on a cdr. what i thought was interesting was a version of the song Skies Of America which, to me, doesn't sound at all like the released version and I LOVE that version.

OK well as long as you didn't pay for it I guess it has some interest!

[ghost of miles]

Hello!

 

[Chuck Nessa]

13 minutes ago, ghost of miles said:

Hello!

 

Surprised this hadn't happened earlier.

[mjazzg]

Yes please!

[soulpope]

10 hours ago, ghost of miles said:

The bass solo by David Izenzon at 9.52 is nothing short of mesmerizing ....

[felser]

On 4/27/2007 at 3:41 PM, ep1str0phy said:

I've resisted purchasing the slew of Ornette bootlegs that have recently been dumped onto the market, although a fought a pretty hard battle for a CD copy of The Fabulous Paul Bley Quintet on ebay a while back (not that expensive in the end). As much as I want to hear the rest of the sessions, if it's on one of the "sordid" labels, I don't think I'm going to be picking it up (as if there weren't enough to listen to as it is). Come to think of it, I don't know of any CD releases of the rest of the Hillcrest material (that is, outside of the stuff on Fabulous)...

Gambit Records has you covered:

https://www.discogs.com/release/1980758-Ornette-Coleman-Quintet-With-Don-Cherry-Paul-Bley-Complete-Live-At-The-Hillcrest

[JSngry]

Gambit is no less "sordid" than any of the others.

[JSngry]

Did Albert return the tapes to Ornette? Any chance that there might have been some stealth safety copies that hung around? Has this been on Don Was' radar at all?