Gangsta, or I am baffled by this stuff

[pasta]

keep seeing teenage boys wearing t shirts with the poster of the movie "scarface" or even more hilarious, a picture of john gotti! what the FUCK is THIS about? "hi, i worship violence and thievery." fuck off............

Edited April 21, 2007 by pasta

[catesta]

keep seeing teenage boys wearing t shirts with the poster of the movie "scarface" or even more hilarious, a picture of john gotti! what the FUCK is THIS about? "hi, i worship violence and thievery." fuck off............

Scarface was just a movie and not a very good one.

[Jim Alfredson]

Wasn't it Chris Rock who said every rapper has the same two movies in his collection: New Jack City and Scarface?

[Kari S]

Wasn't it Chris Rock who said every rapper has the same two movies in his collection: New Jack City and Scarface?

Don't forget "Carlito's Way". I think a bunch of rappers even re-did that. As they did with Scarface too, btw...

[JSngry]

If you don't got some Gansta in you at some level, you're a fucking fool, a tool, a spiritual ghoul.

It's all in how you channel it, and the same people who make the Gangsta impulse necessary have been clever enough to make sure that there's more than a few outlets available that ultimately play right into their hands, not the least of which is the notion of "Gangsta".

But make no mistake - failure to resist and consider other options is suicide.

[Dan Gould]

keep seeing teenage boys wearing t shirts with the poster of the movie "scarface" or even more hilarious, a picture of john gotti! what the FUCK is THIS about? "hi, i worship violence and thievery." fuck off............

Have you seen the t-shirts that take the Warner Brothers WB symbol and tell people to "Warn the Brothers" if cops are around? That's not just glorification of crime and violence, that's encouraging people to help "the brothas" avoid capture.

Sick.

[catesta]

If you don't got some Gansta in you at some level, you're a fucking fool, a tool, a spiritual ghoul.

It's all in how you channel it, and the same people who make the Gangsta impulse necessary have been clever enough to make sure that there's more than a few outlets available that ultimately play right into their hands, not the least of which is the notion of "Gangsta".

But make no mistake - failure to resist and consider other options is suicide.

I hear you.

And there is a difference between a "Gangsta" and a true "Gangster".

These days the term "Gangsta" is really more of a pop culture style rather than a reference to real criminals.

Snoop Dogg likes to call himself a "Gangsta" and a "Pimp" but we all know he's not running hookers all over the country as he claims, and is definitely not involved in transportation and sales of narcotics. His lawyers, accountants, record lable execs, and managers would not allow it. While he may have been a street thug at one time, today he is nothing more than a "Studio Gangsta" living in Beverly Hills or wherever the hell he lives.

They have to make traffic violations and every once in a while get busted with weed or a gun in order to keep the image alive.

It's safe bet most of the kids wearing the "Gangsta" get up are really not criminals or thugs.

[Jazzmoose]

Heck, I had New Jack City. Best gangster movie since Cagney's heyday if you ask me. What's this "kids today" schtick? Gangster movies have been popular for longer than I've been alive...

[BERIGAN]

Should be an interesting 60 minutes tomorrow night.....

Cam'ron: Snitching Hurts "Code Of Ethics"

Rapper Also Tells Anderson Cooper It Would Hurt His Business

60 Minutes Main Page

(CBS) Rap star Cam'ron says there's no situation — including a serial killer living next door — that would cause him to help police in any way, because to do so would hurt his music sales and violate his "code of ethics."

Cam'ron, whose real name is Cameron Giles, talks to CNN's Anderson Cooper for a 60 Minutes report on how the hip-hop culture's message to shun the police has undermined efforts to solve murders across the country.

Cooper's report will be broadcast this Sunday, April 22, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

"If I knew the serial killer was living next door to me?" Giles responds to a hypothetical question posed by Cooper. "I wouldn't call and tell anybody on him — but I'd probably move. But I'm not going to call and be like, 'The serial killer's in 4E.' "

Giles' "code of ethics" also extends to crimes committed against him. After being shot and wounded by gunmen, Giles refused to cooperate with police. Why?

"Because … it would definitely hurt my business, and the way I was raised, I just don't do that," says Giles.

Pressed by Cooper, who says had he been the victim, he would want his attacker to be caught, Giles explains further: "But then again, you're not going to be on the stage tonight in the middle of, say, Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina, with people with gold and platinum teeth and dreadlocks jumping up and down singing your songs, either. We're in two different lines of business."

"So for you, it's really about business?" Cooper asks.

"It's about business," Giles says, "but it's still also a code of ethics."

Rappers appear to be concerned about damaging what's known as their "street credibility," says Geoffrey Canada, an anti-violence advocate and educator from New York City's Harlem neighborhood.

"It's one of those things that sells music and no one really quite understands why," says Canada. Their fans look up to artists if they come from the "meanest streets of the urban ghetto," he tells Cooper. For that reason, Canada says, they do not cooperate with the police.

Canada says in the poor New York City neighborhood he grew up in, only the criminals didn't talk to the police, but within today's hip-hop culture, that has changed. "It is now a cultural norm that is being preached in poor communities … It's like you can't be a black person if you have a set of values that say 'I will not watch a crime happen in my community without getting involved to stop it,' " Canada tells Cooper.

Young people from some of New York's toughest neighborhoods echo Canada's assessment, calling the message not to help police "the rules" and helping the police "a crime" in their neighborhoods.

These "rules" are contributing to a much lower percentage of arrests in homicide cases — a statistic known as the "clearance rate" — in largely poor, minority neighborhoods throughout the country, according to professor David Kennedy of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

"I work in communities where the clearance rate for homicides has gone into the single digits," says Kennedy. The national rate for homicide clearance is about 60 percent. "In these neighborhoods, we are on the verge of — or maybe we have already lost — the rule of law," he tells Cooper.

Says Canada: "It's like we're saying to the criminals, 'You can have our community … Do anything you want and we will either deal with it ourselves or we'll simply ignore it.'"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/...in2704565.shtml

[catesta]

Heck, I had New Jack City. Best gangster movie since Cagney's heyday if you ask me. What's this "kids today" schtick? Gangster movies have been popular for longer than I've been alive...

No shit?

I found New Jack City to be extremely cheezy with some real bad acting. How Ice T continues to get acting jobs after that one is beyond me.

[catesta]

Should be an interesting 60 minutes tomorrow night.....

Cam'ron: Snitching Hurts "Code Of Ethics"

Rapper Also Tells Anderson Cooper It Would Hurt His Business

60 Minutes Main Page

(CBS) Rap star Cam'ron says there's no situation — including a serial killer living next door — that would cause him to help police in any way, because to do so would hurt his music sales and violate his "code of ethics."

Cam'ron, whose real name is Cameron Giles, talks to CNN's Anderson Cooper for a 60 Minutes report on how the hip-hop culture's message to shun the police has undermined efforts to solve murders across the country.

Cooper's report will be broadcast this Sunday, April 22, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

"If I knew the serial killer was living next door to me?" Giles responds to a hypothetical question posed by Cooper. "I wouldn't call and tell anybody on him — but I'd probably move. But I'm not going to call and be like, 'The serial killer's in 4E.' "

Giles' "code of ethics" also extends to crimes committed against him. After being shot and wounded by gunmen, Giles refused to cooperate with police. Why?

"Because … it would definitely hurt my business, and the way I was raised, I just don't do that," says Giles.

Pressed by Cooper, who says had he been the victim, he would want his attacker to be caught, Giles explains further: "But then again, you're not going to be on the stage tonight in the middle of, say, Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina, with people with gold and platinum teeth and dreadlocks jumping up and down singing your songs, either. We're in two different lines of business."

"So for you, it's really about business?" Cooper asks.

"It's about business," Giles says, "but it's still also a code of ethics."

Rappers appear to be concerned about damaging what's known as their "street credibility," says Geoffrey Canada, an anti-violence advocate and educator from New York City's Harlem neighborhood.

"It's one of those things that sells music and no one really quite understands why," says Canada. Their fans look up to artists if they come from the "meanest streets of the urban ghetto," he tells Cooper. For that reason, Canada says, they do not cooperate with the police.

Canada says in the poor New York City neighborhood he grew up in, only the criminals didn't talk to the police, but within today's hip-hop culture, that has changed. "It is now a cultural norm that is being preached in poor communities … It's like you can't be a black person if you have a set of values that say 'I will not watch a crime happen in my community without getting involved to stop it,' " Canada tells Cooper.

Young people from some of New York's toughest neighborhoods echo Canada's assessment, calling the message not to help police "the rules" and helping the police "a crime" in their neighborhoods.

These "rules" are contributing to a much lower percentage of arrests in homicide cases — a statistic known as the "clearance rate" — in largely poor, minority neighborhoods throughout the country, according to professor David Kennedy of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

"I work in communities where the clearance rate for homicides has gone into the single digits," says Kennedy. The national rate for homicide clearance is about 60 percent. "In these neighborhoods, we are on the verge of — or maybe we have already lost — the rule of law," he tells Cooper.

Says Canada: "It's like we're saying to the criminals, 'You can have our community … Do anything you want and we will either deal with it ourselves or we'll simply ignore it.'"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/...in2704565.shtml

That "code of ethics" shit is funny to me.

More than likely the reason dude doesn't give police help with info on the people that shot him is the police would find out how much he paid them to do so.

[JSngry]

Should be an interesting 60 minutes tomorrow night.....

Cam'ron: Snitching Hurts "Code Of Ethics"

Rapper Also Tells Anderson Cooper It Would Hurt His Business

60 Minutes Main Page

(CBS) Rap star Cam'ron says there's no situation — including a serial killer living next door — that would cause him to help police in any way, because to do so would hurt his music sales and violate his "code of ethics."

Cam'ron, whose real name is Cameron Giles, talks to CNN's Anderson Cooper for a 60 Minutes report on how the hip-hop culture's message to shun the police has undermined efforts to solve murders across the country.

Cooper's report will be broadcast this Sunday, April 22, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

"If I knew the serial killer was living next door to me?" Giles responds to a hypothetical question posed by Cooper. "I wouldn't call and tell anybody on him — but I'd probably move. But I'm not going to call and be like, 'The serial killer's in 4E.' "

Giles' "code of ethics" also extends to crimes committed against him. After being shot and wounded by gunmen, Giles refused to cooperate with police. Why?

"Because … it would definitely hurt my business, and the way I was raised, I just don't do that," says Giles.

Pressed by Cooper, who says had he been the victim, he would want his attacker to be caught, Giles explains further: "But then again, you're not going to be on the stage tonight in the middle of, say, Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina, with people with gold and platinum teeth and dreadlocks jumping up and down singing your songs, either. We're in two different lines of business."

"So for you, it's really about business?" Cooper asks.

"It's about business," Giles says, "but it's still also a code of ethics."

Rappers appear to be concerned about damaging what's known as their "street credibility," says Geoffrey Canada, an anti-violence advocate and educator from New York City's Harlem neighborhood.

"It's one of those things that sells music and no one really quite understands why," says Canada. Their fans look up to artists if they come from the "meanest streets of the urban ghetto," he tells Cooper. For that reason, Canada says, they do not cooperate with the police.

Canada says in the poor New York City neighborhood he grew up in, only the criminals didn't talk to the police, but within today's hip-hop culture, that has changed. "It is now a cultural norm that is being preached in poor communities … It's like you can't be a black person if you have a set of values that say 'I will not watch a crime happen in my community without getting involved to stop it,' " Canada tells Cooper.

Young people from some of New York's toughest neighborhoods echo Canada's assessment, calling the message not to help police "the rules" and helping the police "a crime" in their neighborhoods.

These "rules" are contributing to a much lower percentage of arrests in homicide cases — a statistic known as the "clearance rate" — in largely poor, minority neighborhoods throughout the country, according to professor David Kennedy of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

"I work in communities where the clearance rate for homicides has gone into the single digits," says Kennedy. The national rate for homicide clearance is about 60 percent. "In these neighborhoods, we are on the verge of — or maybe we have already lost — the rule of law," he tells Cooper.

Says Canada: "It's like we're saying to the criminals, 'You can have our community … Do anything you want and we will either deal with it ourselves or we'll simply ignore it.'"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/19/...in2704565.shtml

That "code of ethics" shit is funny to me.

Really.

I mean, how much of a "code" is it if you spill it on 60 Minutes?

[Jazzmoose]

Heck, I had New Jack City. Best gangster movie since Cagney's heyday if you ask me. What's this "kids today" schtick? Gangster movies have been popular for longer than I've been alive...

No shit?

I found New Jack City to be extremely cheezy with some real bad acting. How Ice T continues to get acting jobs after that one is beyond me.

I'll agree about Ice T. It was Snipes who impressed me. And Chris Rock. Still Rock's finest work in my opinion. Not that that's saying much...

[catesta]

Heck, I had New Jack City. Best gangster movie since Cagney's heyday if you ask me. What's this "kids today" schtick? Gangster movies have been popular for longer than I've been alive...

No shit?

I found New Jack City to be extremely cheezy with some real bad acting. How Ice T continues to get acting jobs after that one is beyond me.

I'll agree about Ice T. It was Snipes who impressed me. And Chris Rock. Still Rock's finest work in my opinion. Not that that's saying much...

Rock's finest work not counting his stand up act was in I'm Gonna Git You Sucka.

"How much for one rib"?

[Big Al]

keep seeing teenage boys wearing t shirts with the poster of the movie "scarface" or even more hilarious, a picture of john gotti! what the FUCK is THIS about? "hi, i worship violence and thievery." fuck off............

I think it is more accurate to say "hi, i want you to think that I worship violence and thievery." More about the image than anything.

Amen! While my wife and I were having dinner last night, this dude pulls up in a tricked-out Caddy; his woman gets out all dressed to the (sixty)-nines, and he gets out all baggy shorts & bling. All this just to go to a movie. My wife and I rolled our eyes and giggled at the spectacle.

Jazzmoose had it right: the times haven't changed, just the actors and the costumes.

[sidewinder]

all dressed to the (sixty)-nines

[Adam]

I think it's actually a more interesting & complex issue than most replies have allowed.

First, in the late 60s, if you knew people smoking pot, would you tell the police if they came around asking?

There's a long tradition in America of reverence for the outlaw - he is the highest icon of true freedom, living outside the law.

And when you live in a subculture where governement or the law as repeatedly set you up as the target, not the one being protected under the law, what reason do you have on a fundamental emotional level to help the police? I think that's a key reason for the behaviors seen in minority communities. It takes a while to teach people differently; I think tht'a why long term "community policing" efforts tend to work some in minority communities (I wish I could come up with a better term, but I'm tired at the moment.)

As for "Scarface" in particular - it provided an oversized series of iconic images and lines showing the pleasures and fun & adrenaline-rush involved with breaking the law, or at least at living in that culture, as opposed to one of unemployment, or service labor and "Driving while Black" police stops.. Then he goes down in a blaze of glory. People always emulate (or at least quote lines from) movies that create worthy iconic moments. Even if the film is bad overall (which I think "Scarface" is, despite DePalma's craftmaship), all that most movies need is a few memorable scenes, reasonably well-crafted. and Stone & DePalma got that correct. I didn't realize how big Scarface was until the DVD reissue a couple of years back, but there were a variety of stories on it at that time, and some might be on line to explain it further.

When "gangsta" rappers become very successful, then they have been able to use the system to their gain, and are still worth seeing, even if they admit how it's all just an act and a business. You have to exhibit, as others have said in this thread, how you haven't completely sold out. But that also ties into the American tradition of remaking oneself - it's really important that certain elements not become public knowledge as well. It's a more complicated issue, more than I can reflect upon at the moment actually.

But in general, I don't think there's anything to "get." Gangsta posing, and the need to preserve street cred, are both honored American traditions, dating back to the 1850s at least. The particulars that seem silly to us now ae the particular cultural manifestations of this time.