how come when gene ammons got out of prison.....

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

was it that he made that funky album with "jungle soul" even though hed been in the slammer since like 1963 or something like that (im sure one of you will kindly point out the exact year and month, which is fine by me)

but the point is: DID HE HAVE JAZZ IN PRISON AND JAZZ RECORDS LIKE ART PEPPER DID AND SO HE WAS ALREADY IN TUNE W/ THE NEW, FUNKY SOUNDS HAPPENING ACROSS AMERICA?

LETS TALK IN THIS THREAD ABOUT JAZZ IN PRISON

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

n is that just a coincidnce that his last album is called GOODBYE w/ a song w/ that title or did he know it was gonna be his last

[JSngry]

n is that just a coincidnce that his last album is called GOODBYE w/ a song w/ that title or did he know it was gonna be his last

I don't know. That's a good question.

[brownie]

n is that just a coincidnce that his last album is called GOODBYE w/ a song w/ that title or did he know it was gonna be his last

Orin Keepnews who produced the sessions for the Prestige album wrote in his liner notes:

'By one of those coincidences you would flatly refuse to accept in a movie script, the ballad 'Gooodbye' (Jug's own choice) was the last number of the last day. That, of course, means that it was his goodbye, because this was the last time Gene ever recorded. Less than five months later his then undected cancer had killed him.

'Goodbye' was recorded on March 20, 1974. It was the only tune recorded on that Jug's final session!

[K1969]

was it that he made that funky album with "jungle soul" even though hed been in the slammer since like 1963 or something like that (im sure one of you will kindly point out the exact year and month, which is fine by me)

but the point is: DID HE HAVE JAZZ IN PRISON AND JAZZ RECORDS LIKE ART PEPPER DID AND SO HE WAS ALREADY IN TUNE W/ THE NEW, FUNKY SOUNDS HAPPENING ACROSS AMERICA?

LETS TALK IN THIS THREAD ABOUT JAZZ IN PRISON

Actually his first LP after prison, The boss is back, had the track "The Jungle Boss" which was slightly funky, but his next Bother Jug had the REALLY funky track "Jungle Strut" - maybe you're thinking of that one? Any way the sleeve notes for these LP's and his third one The black Cat all talk about his experiences in jail and are very interesting as a result. On the The boss is back he talks about the "new thing" in jazz that had started up during his time inside: "There have been a lot of changes in this world since I went in. It's like day and night. These changes have struck music too. dudes are trying new directions and i dig it. But the avant garde wouldn't fit my bag. I might try a free lick here and there, but I'll stick mostly to the Gene Amons I know" For me what's interesing is what he doesn't talk about when got out in 1969 - ie the by then huge influence of rock, R&B and funk on jazz. He bascially sat out the whole rock and funk revolution in a prison cell and comes out and notices Ornette Coleman and Coltrane! Maybe this is because the funked up, JB-influenced jazz of the late 60s and early 70s wasn't so alien for the great soul jazz and hard bop musicians like Ammons as it might seem from looking back from our stand point. Ammons always played the popular hits and rhythms of the day and it was like a natural transition from Swing to Be Bop to Hard bop and then to Funk. All these movements were just the dance beat of their time. When I listen to Ammons on "Jungle Strut" with Bernard Purdie on drums, or on his great track "Jug Eyes" with Idris Muhammad, the match seems perfect and totally natural. So I don't think it was that hard for him to get back into the contemporary groove. Also having Bob Porter, the "god father of acid jazz" as his new producer must have helped tons.

Edited April 15, 2007 by K1969

[king ubu]

OK in the liners:

"... the ballad 'Goodbye' (Jug's own choice) was the last number of the last day. That, of course, means that it was his goodbye, because this was the last time Gene ever recorded. Less than five months later, his then-undetected cancer had killed him.

"(...) In retrospect, I have t feel good about the fact that, since there had to be a last date, it was one like this."

If OK is to be believed then, Ammons didn't know and that tune is just a coincidence (while the album title is not, of course...)

[king ubu]

alright, brownie beat me to it...

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

is the rest of the album as funky as "jungle strut?

[K1969]

is the rest of the album as funky as "jungle strut?

Not really, but that just places it in the prestige tradition in those days of having 1-2 overtly funky tracks per LP. There are other RnB/Jazz moments like his cover of "Son of a preacher man" but nothing with the punch of Jungle Strut. If you like Jungle strut you'll love "Jug eyes" from the Black Cat LP. I love all of that "sell-out" shit as they used to call it. Have you checked out the sides by Rusty Bryant from the same period? Fire Eater is amazing.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

was it that he made that funky album with "jungle soul" even though hed been in the slammer since like 1963 or something like that (im sure one of you will kindly point out the exact year and month, which is fine by me)

but the point is: DID HE HAVE JAZZ IN PRISON AND JAZZ RECORDS LIKE ART PEPPER DID AND SO HE WAS ALREADY IN TUNE W/ THE NEW, FUNKY SOUNDS HAPPENING ACROSS AMERICA?

LETS TALK IN THIS THREAD ABOUT JAZZ IN PRISON

Actually his first LP after prison, The boss is back, had the track "The Jungle Boss" which was slightly funky, but his next Bother Jug had the REALLY funky track "Jungle Strut" - maybe you're thinking of that one? Any way the sleeve notes for these LP's and his third one The black Cat all talk about his experiences in jail and are very interesting as a result. On the The boss is back he talks about the "new thing" in jazz that had started up during his time inside: "There have been a lot of changes in this world since I went in. It's like day and night. These changes have struck music too. dudes are trying new directions and i dig it. But the avant garde wouldn't fit my bag. I might try a free lick here and there, but I'll stick mostly to the Gene Amons I know" For me what's interesing is what he doesn't talk about when got out in 1969 - ie the by then huge influence of rock, R&B and funk on jazz. He bascially sat out the whole rock and funk revolution in a prison cell and comes out and notices Ornette Coleman and Coltrane! Maybe this is because the funked up, JB-influenced jazz of the late 60s and early 70s wasn't so alien for the great soul jazz and hard bop musicians like Ammons as it might seem from looking back from our stand point. Ammons always played the popular hits and rhythms of the day and it was like a natural transition from Swing to Be Bop to Hard bop and then to Funk. All these movements were just the dance beat of their time. When I listen to Ammons on "Jungle Strut" with Bernard Purdie on drums, or on his great track "Jug Eyes" with Idris Muhammad, the match seems perfect and totally natural. So I don't think it was that hard for him to get back into the contemporary groove. Also having Bob Porter, the "god father of acid jazz" as his new producer must have helped tons.

You're right K. (And those two albums were recorded on successive days, so the different personnel didn't really change the way Jug was feeling.) But there seems to have been no influence on his post-1969 style of Rock; none that I can identify. As he had been before he went in, he was playing his own take on contemporary black music.

Don't forget, Jug would have been a hero to the vast majority of African-American prisoners. In the seven years he spent inside on that stretch, he would have met huge numbers of young men who were "passing through"; and picking up what was going on all the time. They would not have been talking about the Grateful Dead or the Mothers: JB; Curtis Mayfield; Marvin Gaye yes. I think I recall an interview in a magazine in which Jug said the Governor gave him practising time every day.

I think Jug had plenty of opportunity to keep up both his skills and his understanding of what was going on.

MG

[K1969]

Don't forget, Jug would have been a hero to the vast majority of African-American prisoners. In the seven years he spent inside on that stretch, he would have met huge numbers of young men who were "passing through"; and picking up what was going on all the time. They would not have been talking about the Grateful Dead or the Mothers: JB; Curtis Mayfield; Marvin Gaye yes. I think I recall an interview in a magazine in which Jug said the Governor gave him practising time every day.

I think Jug had plenty of opportunity to keep up both his skills and his understanding of what was going on.

MG

Good point. I've heard of other artists making cutting edge music whilst in prison. There's a guy called Ike White who made a great soul LP in 1976 with Stevie Wonder's help whilst incarcerated at Tehachapi State Prison in CA. The was a group called "Power of Attorney" consisting of a bunch of inmates that cut a now sought after jazz funk LP whilst together in prison - check out the back cover photo in their prison uniforms - I wonder how many cigarettes the last guy had to give for the bow tie?!

On the other side of the law, Jimmy Mc Griff made a few live LPs from prisons. I guess it's possible to say that spending time, or spending time with people spending time, kept a lot of the music at the cutting edge. It might also go to explain why, upon leaving jail in 1969, Jug took to the RnB funk influence like a fish to water, whereas the "new thing" to him was completely, well, new. I doubt there were a lot of people getting down to Albert Ayler on the inside.

Edited April 15, 2007 by K1969