Sopranos

[JSngry]

Well, on thing's for sure - old-school Phil Leotardo and all his old-school notions of honor and shit took it up the ass because of his old-school devotion to pay phones...

[catesta]

Oh well, I guess that's it.

I thought the writing was a bit lazy. Not the first case, but I expected a little more for the finale.

[randissimo]

  catesta said:

Oh well, I guess that's it.

I thought the writing was a bit lazy. Not the first case, but I expected a little more for the finale.

Me too... Oh well, guess there'll be a series of movies in the theaters starting next year maybe..

[catesta]

  randissimo said:

  catesta said:

Oh well, I guess that's it.

I thought the writing was a bit lazy. Not the first case, but I expected a little more for the finale.

Me too... Oh well, guess there'll be a series of movies in the theaters starting next year maybe..

Shit, if Chase makes a movie like he did this show over the last 9 years, there will be 10 months between scenes.

[AllenLowe]

you gotta admit, I was pretty close about Sprinkles the cat, given the feline emphasis in the last episode; the only thing I got wrong was the hair ball -

Edited June 11, 2007 by AllenLowe

[Hot Ptah]

I wonder if I am right about what happened with the FBI agent, and how common it is in the real world. Although married, did the FBI agent sleep with the female Brooklyn FBI agent who would know about Phil's location, just so that he could tell Tony about it? Then when the FBI agent heard about Phil's murder, he said enthusiastically something like "we may win this one yet!" Did that mean that he identifies with Tony and Tony's mob family so much that he thinks of himself as a "We" with them? (Or did he mean that Tony was providing so much helpful information in the fight against terrorism that if Tony remained alive that America would win over the terrorists? That seems less likely to me).

Do FBI agents, and law enforcement officers in general, sometimes start identifying with the criminals they are after, especially if it is a long term project?

[Hot Ptah]

Another question I had. When Tony and Camella host Meadow, her boyfriend and their parents, it comes out that the boyfriend/attorney is working on a case involving someone involved with bid rigging and other crimes. It was implied that this was a project which was going to take him into territory adverse to Tony and his father.

I didn't really catch the name of the criminal that the boyfriend was talking about. Was he discussing the alderman played by the actor who was in Animal House?

[catesta]

  Hot Ptah said:

I wonder if I am right about what happened with the FBI agent, and how common it is in the real world. Although married, did the FBI agent sleep with the female Brooklyn FBI agent who would know about Phil's location, just so that he could tell Tony about it? Then when the FBI agent heard about Phil's murder, he said enthusiastically something like "we may win this one yet!" Did that mean that he identifies with Tony and Tony's mob family so much that he thinks of himself as a "We" with them? (Or did he mean that Tony was providing so much helpful information in the fight against terrorism that if Tony remained alive that America would win over the terrorists? That seems less likely to me).

Do FBI agents, and law enforcement officers in general, sometimes start identifying with the criminals they are after, especially if it is a long term project?

Agent Harris was definitely pulling for the "home team".

[catesta]

  Hot Ptah said:

Another question I had. When Tony and Camella host Meadow, her boyfriend and their parents, it comes out that the boyfriend/attorney is working on a case involving someone involved with bid rigging and other crimes. It was implied that this was a project which was going to take him into territory adverse to Tony and his father.

I didn't really catch the name of the criminal that the boyfriend was talking about. Was he discussing the alderman played by the actor who was in Animal House?

The State Assemblyman you're thinking of was named Ron Zellman. That was not the name mentioned.

[catesta]

Criticisms?

Did some of the story line seem forced and done to take uo time?

I mean, what the hell was the deal with the SUV running over Phil's head?

[Use3D]

I feel ripped off and I don't even pay for HBO. What a crap ending. Instead of something, ANYTHING happening, NOTHING happens. What a crock.

[Harold_Z]

  catesta said:

Criticisms?

Did some of the story line seem forced and done to take uo time?

Yes.

I mean, what the hell was the deal with the SUV running over Phil's head?

I think Chase has taken somewhat of a "cartoon" attitude of late. Another example was

Bobby's hit. The miniature train station with the little men covering their eyes.

[AllenLowe]

I actually found the "nothing happens" ending something of a relief - so tired of network tv cliff hangers - what the hell. Chase is probably completely burned out. Don't take it personally -

I only wish Phil had been made to suffer a bit more - he's gotta be one of the slimiest and nastiest characters ever seen on TV-

as for AJ, I wish they'd wacked him - or had him burn up in the car. Whiney moron, not in the least bit interesting as a character -

glad Tony lived - hope Van Zandt wakes up and wacks Springsteen - and I think Junior's faking it - and I'm sorry about Bobby, though death may be a resonable alternative to living with Tony's sister -

and I'll miss Sprinkles -

Edited June 11, 2007 by AllenLowe

[Soulstation1]

Don't Stop Believing

[catesta]

  Harold_Z said:

  catesta said:

Criticisms?

Did some of the story line seem forced and done to take uo time?

Yes.

I mean, what the hell was the deal with the SUV running over Phil's head?

I think Chase has taken somewhat of a "cartoon" attitude of late. Another example was

Bobby's hit. The miniature train station with the little men covering their eyes.

I hear you.

[Hot Ptah]

  catesta said:

Criticisms?

Did some of the story line seem forced and done to take uo time?

I mean, what the hell was the deal with the SUV running over Phil's head?

Maybe Chase was tired of everyone finding hidden meanings and ambiguities in everything on the show, and he wanted to say, this guy is really REALLY dead--no way will he get up and come after Tony again in the upcoming movie--don't even start your blogs about it.

[catesta]

  Hot Ptah said:

  catesta said:

Criticisms?

Did some of the story line seem forced and done to take uo time?

I mean, what the hell was the deal with the SUV running over Phil's head?

Maybe Chase was tired of everyone finding hidden meanings and ambiguities in everything on the show, and he wanted to say, this guy is really REALLY dead--no way will he get up and come after Tony again in the upcoming movie--don't even start your blogs about it.

Maybe, but on the other hand we all might just be giving Chase a little too much credit at times. The final episode right down to the bullshit ending was loaded with little things for people to try and find those hidden meanings and formulate their theories.

The series in whole has been one of the best ever, but I still can't help but look back on the shitty episodes, the inconsistent history, often meaningless story lines and think that Chase owed a little more to the end.

For the record, I take back what I said before about this season making up for the bad. The final one blew it for me.

[Hot Ptah]

I agree with you that the last episode was loaded with hints about the future, which could either be things for fans to think and argue about until they are tired of it, or may be the basis of one or more lucrative films.

For example, what is going on with Paulie? Has he turned on Tony, or is he thinking about it, or is he feeling indispensable to Tony with so many other top people dead or in the hospital--so that he thinks he can defy Tony openly?

I took it that Meadow was telling Tony in their restaurant meal together that she was planning to become a Mafia defense attorney as her profession. It could have been more explicitly stated though. All kinds of possibilites present themselves for future films, with Tony trusting Meadow with his personal finances and more and more of the Mob family business as she becomes seasoned as an attorney. If this is all so, then the final episode is a tragedy, because I think that the viewers always thought that Meadow would do great things totally apart from the Mob, and that Tony and Carmella wanted her to do great things apart from the Mob. The fact that she seems to be getting sucked into the Mob business by her own choice is a powerful development, but left somewhat ambiguous. She didn't go off to medical school in California or something like that though, so maybe it is not all that ambiguous.

The career path for A.J., first assistant to Little Carmine's film company, then management of a club financed by Tony--again, A.J. is getting sucked into the Mob. Any club financed by Tony will be a front for the Mob business, much like Ade's club was. The viewers had thought that A.J. too would escape Mob life.

I have thought of the subtitle of the show, "The Rise and Fall of Tony Soprano". To me, there was no real fall, unless the last episode means that Meadow and A.J. are going to join Tony in the Mob. Otherwise everything that happened to Tony were things he really didn't care enough about to constitute a "fall". Where is the "fall"?

[catesta]

Meadow as a criminal defense attorney is one thing, her getting involved in the business and taking over would be total fiction and further proof that Chase has lost it.

Another bad move would be for them to all of a sudden have A.J. get caught up in the life. They (the writers) have demonstrated time and time again that he is not cut out for it. To change now would be a major screw up.

As for Paulie. That character is a character to say the least. It didn't take much for Tony to make him agree to his request. What did he say? Something along the lines of "I'll give it to Patsy" and Paulie fell right in line.

"Superstitions" aside, he's a typical middle management guy that will remain loyal. The fact that he was the one to accompany Tony to the sit down only shows he has become the number two. That's about all he could hope for.

Of course none of these opinions matter much unless they plan on a series revival in the future or something for the big screen. Right now, I don't see it. Gandolfini seems to be the one that most wanted the series to end. So maybe, maybe after a while he is up for a movie or two playing the Tony role. Honestly I'd be curious to see if Chase would be able to fill 90+ minutes without side tracking scenes of parallel parking do's and dont's.

We shall see what the future holds.

[AllenLowe]

I'll just have to wait for Sprinkles: The Movie

Edited June 11, 2007 by AllenLowe

[Hot Ptah]

After Gandolfini has three unsuccessful films in a row, he will develop a sudden interest in reviving the character.

[RDK]

Eight years and what do get? Meadow is late for dinner...

[Harold_Z]

Well...I'm still going to miss it. In that sense I'm glad that the series was open ended. I was just disappointed in the overall quality of the show - and that's been for quite a while, 'tho for me, even a bad Sopranos is entertaining.

As an aside - the show was derailed back when Nancy Marchand died. I think Chase had a story ark that was based to a large extent on that character. Every thing had to be rethought and Chase lost some enthusiasm at that point.

I've been watching I, Claudius on dvd. Livia, the wife of Augustus Caesar, is portrayed as a murderous schemer. I think it is no accident that Tony's mother was named Livia.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Harold_Z

[catesta]

  Harold_Z said:

Well...I'm still going to miss it. In that sense I'm glad that the series was open ended. I was just disappointed in the overall quality of the show - and that's been for quite a while, 'tho for me, even a bad Sopranos is entertaining.

As an aside - the show was derailed back when Nancy Marchand died. I think Chase had a story ark that was based to a large extent on that character. Every thing had to be rethought and Chase lost some enthusiasm at that point.

I've been watching I, Claudius on dvd. Livia, the wife of Augustus Caesar, is portrayed as a murderous schemer. I think it is no accident that Tony's mother was named Livia.

I too will miss the show.

On the death of Marchand, that may indeed be the case.

Maybe Chase really never wanted to go much beyond the twisted relationship between Tony and his mother.

I always thought that part was mis-casted though. Marchand was more like an Edith Bunker than an Italian wife and mother.

[JSngry]

The chatboardworld is going nuts over the ending, lots of speculation/interpretation/looking for signs/symbolism/etc, but this post was interesting:

http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1018081

  Quote

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I'll say it again because now it looks to be pretty much confirmed based on the episode.

I was at HBO in March and during the meeting the discussion turned to the Sopranos. One of the Sr. VPs of production told us that Chase had a different ending in store for the series, but the network (under its new feature banner) struck an eleventh hour deal with him to write (possibly direct) two Sopranos feature films. This precipitated the season 6B break (coupled with Gandolfini's injury) and also forced Chase to rewrite much of the last few episodes.

Does this mean that a movie is definitely going to happen? No. But it means that despite what is reported on Yahoo, Fox, MSNBC etc, Chase has agreed to at least submit a draft of a feature Sopranos' script. It was a really intense and interesting conversation from the production/suit side of things. I didn't want to get too much into it before because I didn't want to spoil anything.

It should be interesting over the next few weeks to see the fallout from the episode. It was a huge gamble on HBO and Chase's part to end it as they did. It's either going to whet the apitite, or leave people screaming for blood. Either way, here's to the end of one of the most acclaimed TV shows in history.