Why do people pay to hear music then talk while it's being played

[medjuck]

In a different thread Larry Kart wrote:

" far more alarming and revealing to me ... are the experiences I've had in jazz clubs where people pay substantial cover charges to hear name acts and then proceed to talk at a fairly high volume level throughout the performance. "

I began listening to jazz in clubs in the early 60's and I've rarely been to club where the noise factor wasn't distracting. As well as talk you often have the added din of cash registers, glasses being washed and drinks being served. Outdoor venues and large arenas are even worse and some rock fans seem to think they aren't enjoying the music unless they're screaming while the music's being played.

About the only places where audiences are reasonably quiet while the music's being played are small concert halls.

I think I may be in the minority in letting this bother me. I've embarrassed my son by admonishing people in a club who were chatting away during a performance by a rather quiet local singer song writer. (Though I gained some respect from him when the owner of the club suggested that those who wanted to talk go outside.)

I don't think you have to sit reverentially while int he audience and I don't agree with a review I remember reading where the reviewer complained that the audience at a Joshua Redman performance acted like a crowd at a basketball game with their whoops after every solo-- sounds like fun to me. But what is it with people who pay to hear music and then don't listen? (Of course some of them have been immortalized on

record . Maybe that's what they're hoping for: recognition.)

Edited April 8, 2007 by medjuck

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

People go out to have a good time. Why shouldn't the music be secondary to that? Listen to Willis Jackson more.

MG

[GregK]

This is why I rarely go to concerts unless they are in concert halls or auditoria.

[Guy Berger]

In my experience, there isn't much talking at the major NYC clubs.

I find it to be irritating when it happens.

Guy

[Van Basten II]

Great thread, it's one of my pet peeves . I don't understand it either. They pay 40 bucks to assist the show and they can stop yapping throughout it. What's wrong with these people, do they have the attention span of a three year old, do they think they are more important than the act on stage. Don't they have any respect for the people around them. If at least they were doing it in a discreet fashion instead of acting like they were in their fuckin' living room.

If you want to pass a nice evening to chill out with friends or your girlfriend don't do it where there is a live act playing and people have paid to see it.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Van Basten II

[Ken Dryden]

One of the strangest problems I had was paying an extra cover to sit

close to the bandstand to hear Kenny Barron & Ray Drummond at the

late lamented Zino in NYC, only to have some yuppie women talking

loudly throughout the set at the next table. Why in the hell did these

morons pay extra to sit so close?

Another weird experience was during a jazz party, when Rebecca Kilgore

was singing with Dave Frishberg backing her and a hotel employee was

making popcorn in the back of the ballroom during the set.

[jazzypaul]

Speaking as a musician, I'd rather see seats filled and people talking than play to an empty house because people wanted to go somewhere where they can talk. If they paid money to be there, it's because they want to be there. And more often than not, I've seen people who looked like they couldn't care less during a set come up afterwards and make a point to tell you that they really enjoyed it.

One of the biggest things I ever learned was that music is the soundtrack for people's lives, not the reason for it.

That said, I like to hear music as much as the next person, especially if I'm paying $25-100 for the experience. But if the venue doesn't have a quiet policy, you can't blame people for yammering.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

had heard about this and found the anecdote

The Quotable Musician: From Bach to Tupac, Allworth Press:

"Shut the F—k up! We’re trying to make some music down here! Jive-ass motherfu---r’s."

--John Zorn to Vaclav Havel, Madeline Albright, Laurie Anderson and Lou Reed who were talking during a Bar Kokhba show at the Knitting Factory.

[Van Basten II]

One of the strangest problems I had was paying an extra cover to sit

close to the bandstand to hear Kenny Barron & Ray Drummond at the

late lamented Zino in NYC, only to have some yuppie women talking

loudly throughout the set at the next table. Why in the hell did these

morons pay extra to sit so close?

Another weird experience was during a jazz party, when Rebecca Kilgore

was singing with Dave Frishberg backing her and a hotel employee was

making popcorn in the back of the ballroom during the set.

It reminds me, i saw Marc Copeland playing solo at the Upstairs club in Montreal. Not only we had people talking throughout the first set, during the second set, it was better, however people preparing the drinks were making every kind of noise doing their stuff.

At a certain point, i think Copeland lost it, you thought they were doing a show with a synthesizer à la Sun Ra.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Van Basten II

[catesta]

Why in the hell did these

morons pay extra to sit so close?

To be seen of course.

Like Guy, I've not been bothered by a whole lot of talking at the NYC clubs but have had my fair share of annoyances elsewhere. Once in Phoenix at a $150 jazz show featuring Junior Mance and Houston Person, there was an older couple at the table with me and my lady. This couple was really wrapped up in their ability to name the tunes out loud rather than showing any appreciation for the musicians and music itself.

The old guy was even banging in the table when he was stumped.

[Jim Alfredson]

Maybe it's just because of the point I'm at in my career, but I agree with Paul. I'd rather see butts in the seats and people talking than no one there.

[Harold_Z]

Amos Kaune, the owner and operator of Gulliver's in West Paterson, NJ through the 70s and 80s used to have a sign on the door telling people that it was a jazz club, people were there to listen to the music and to keep quiet during the sets. If patrons were noisy Amos would speak to them personally and tell them to be quiet or leave. He wasn't afraid of losing the business.

It was one of the best places to hear music in the NYC area.

.....and to gig at.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Harold_Z

[Joe G]

Maybe it's just because of the point I'm at in my career, but I agree with Paul. I'd rather see butts in the seats and people talking than no one there.

Nevertheless, I wish the people who wanted to talk constantly, over the music, with their "outside voice" would choose a spot where I couldn't hear them. It's just common courtesy.

The wildest episode I've ever seen at a jazz concert happened at a Pat Metheny Group show at the College of DuPage, near Chicago. It was during Richard Bona's solo feature, which also happened to be the quietest part of the entire show. Just vocal and kalimba. We became aware that someone among us was carrying on a conversation in full voice. People in our area were looking all around for who it was. Finally we realized that the voice was coming from a window above and behind us; some kind of a control booth. It fell to the guy sitting directly under the window to put a stop to it; however, it was too far up for him to even reach. So he tossed his program through the window. Next thing we know, the person doing the yapping is threatening us all with physical violence: "Who threw that shit?!? Why don't you come up here and try that! I'll kick yer fuckin' ass!" and so on. The dude who threw the program said, rather dryly, "Come on down."

Unbelieveable.

[ejp626]

I've generally had pretty good luck. In Chicago I mostly go to Jazz Showcase (crossing fingers it will reopen soon), which has a strict no talking rule, and HotHouse where people are generally pretty cool. I haven't had too many problems at the Green Mill, though I don't go nearly as often. I guess it does depend on the venue and price. I try not to get too bent out of shape unless I have paid $20 or more.

I was, however, at a Sarah McLaughlin concert in Toronto where one guy in our group was a little tipsy and sang along to most of the songs. We tried to quiet him down, then had to keep him from getting into a fight when someone else objected to him singing along. So that was embarassing and the last time I went out with him anywhere.

[Chuck Nessa]

It depends on the type of music - especially in Chicago. If I went to a Gene Ammons gig and nobody talked back to Gene and the band I'd know I was part of a really up-tight white audience AND the music would suffer.

[kh1958]

In my experience, there isn't much talking at the major NYC clubs.

I find it to be irritating when it happens.

Guy

That is my experience with the main clubs in New York as well.

An exception applies when you get seated near a party of two consisting of an older guy and a much younger woman who isn't his daughter.

[JSngry]

A club that serves alcohol and/or food is not a concert hall. Conversation at a reasonable volume is ok, anything above that isn't, but expecting everybody inside a bar/restaurant to pretend that its a concert hall is pretty damn dumb.

[JSngry]

And add me to the group that prefers having a lively full hopuse to a near-empty "respectful" one. The people who want to listen are usually able to, and the ones who aren't, well, thier money goes into my pocket same as anybody's.

[jazzypaul]

The wildest episode I've ever seen at a jazz concert happened at a Pat Metheny Group show at the College of DuPage, near Chicago. It was during Richard Bona's solo feature, which also happened to be the quietest part of the entire show. Just vocal and kalimba. We became aware that someone among us was carrying on a conversation in full voice. People in our area were looking all around for who it was. Finally we realized that the voice was coming from a window above and behind us; some kind of a control booth. It fell to the guy sitting directly under the window to put a stop to it; however, it was too far up for him to even reach. So he tossed his program through the window. Next thing we know, the person doing the yapping is threatening us all with physical violence: "Who threw that shit?!? Why don't you come up here and try that! I'll kick yer fuckin' ass!" and so on. The dude who threw the program said, rather dryly, "Come on down."

Unbelieveable.

I was at that show in the second row somewhere. I was having conversations too, but they were of the whispered "man, that's some bad shit" variety. Usually, nobody minds those.

[J Larsen]

It's obviously a matter that requires discretion. If you're seeing Bill Frisell and he is playing a ballad so softly that you can hear the guitar acoustically as much as you hear it through the amp, that is a very different matter from if you're seeing, say, John Zorn blow his lungs out.

As much as talking at an inappropriate level at an inappropriate time has bugged me on occassion, I have to say that the strict policies of a place like The Stone create an uptight atmosphere that somewhat lessens my ability to enjoy the music. (MAN I'm going to miss Tonic...)

[Joe G]

The wildest episode I've ever seen at a jazz concert happened at a Pat Metheny Group show at the College of DuPage, near Chicago. It was during Richard Bona's solo feature, which also happened to be the quietest part of the entire show. Just vocal and kalimba. We became aware that someone among us was carrying on a conversation in full voice. People in our area were looking all around for who it was. Finally we realized that the voice was coming from a window above and behind us; some kind of a control booth. It fell to the guy sitting directly under the window to put a stop to it; however, it was too far up for him to even reach. So he tossed his program through the window. Next thing we know, the person doing the yapping is threatening us all with physical violence: "Who threw that shit?!? Why don't you come up here and try that! I'll kick yer fuckin' ass!" and so on. The dude who threw the program said, rather dryly, "Come on down."

Unbelieveable.

I was at that show in the second row somewhere. I was having conversations too, but they were of the whispered "man, that's some bad shit" variety. Usually, nobody minds those.

Jim and I were in the back row, where all the commotion was. Rachel was there, too - in the front row.

[rachel]

The wildest episode I've ever seen at a jazz concert happened at a Pat Metheny Group show at the College of DuPage, near Chicago. It was during Richard Bona's solo feature, which also happened to be the quietest part of the entire show. Just vocal and kalimba. We became aware that someone among us was carrying on a conversation in full voice. People in our area were looking all around for who it was. Finally we realized that the voice was coming from a window above and behind us; some kind of a control booth. It fell to the guy sitting directly under the window to put a stop to it; however, it was too far up for him to even reach. So he tossed his program through the window. Next thing we know, the person doing the yapping is threatening us all with physical violence: "Who threw that shit?!? Why don't you come up here and try that! I'll kick yer fuckin' ass!" and so on. The dude who threw the program said, rather dryly, "Come on down."

Unbelieveable.

I was at that show in the second row somewhere. I was having conversations too, but they were of the whispered "man, that's some bad shit" variety. Usually, nobody minds those.

Jim and I were in the back row, where all the commotion was. Rachel was there, too - in the front row.

Yeah, I didn't hear the commotion in the back; maybe it was because the guy sitting next to me, down front and center, was singing at the top of his lungs right along with the band to "First Circle". This was after he got the clapping intro *all* messed up, clapping as loud and as hard as possible. At that moment I longed for a not-so-great seat.

[Aggie87]

Yeah, I didn't hear the commotion in the back; maybe it was because the guy sitting next to me, down front and center, was singing at the top of his lungs right along with the band to "First Circle". This was after he got the clapping intro *all* messed up, clapping as loud and as hard as possible. At that moment I longed for a not-so-great seat.

I have worse rhythm than Navin Johnson, so you'll never catch me clapping along like that!

[mikeweil]

Sad as it is, I've heard local musicians conversing loudly in Frankfurt's oldest jazz clubs while their colleagues were at work!

[Dan Gould]

My worst experience came in Tallahassee when Marcus Printup came to a club that doesn't even normally book jazz. It was a great night, and the group (they backed him on one of his BN albums) was certainly one of the better ones to show up in Tallahassee, but it was a Friday night at a club best known for hosting a lot of yuppies doing the mating dance.

So the first two or three songs go by, people seem to be enjoying it, I surely am ... and then comes the first ballad of the evening. They're playing at about 1/4 of the volume of the previous songs, and the entire room erupted into conversation. They could finally say something to their companion so they damn well were going to start talking.

Now, there was no cover, and few people were there specifically to hear the group, and I would bet that at least 80% hadn't ever attended a real, straightahead jazz concert in their lives. In short, I was seriously outnumbered and other than shooting death rays out of my eyes at every single individual near me, there was nothing I could do. But I tell you, I was pissed.