September 2nd RVGs

[Soul Stream]

David Rosenthal raves about MODE FOR JOE in HARD BOP.  I've got the old issue, but I'll be tempted to go for the RVG if the upgrade is noticeably better--it is a classic BN album.

I don't mean to sidetrack this thread, but how is that book, GofM? I've seen it at stores a couple of times but never really felt compelled to pick it up, for one reason or another.

Hard Bop is my FAVORITE jazz book. It you love Blue Note, David R. really gives it to you. I LOVE this book and have for years. Plus he's a damn READABLE writer. Great straight forward style. And he gives plenty of room to Andrew Hill, Tina Brooks, Jackie,....

It's great!

[Free For All]

I'm sure I'm missing something; I always thought 'Mode for Joe' was Joe's least enjoyable BN album. I would say that 'In 'n Out' is the one I'm digging the most, with 'Our Thing' and 'Page One' just a notch behind. (Anyone else who thinks Joe and Kenny were one of the best tenor-trumpet matches ever?)

How should I approach 'Mode for Joe' to really get into it? By throwing away my McMaster and giving it a fresh start with the new RVG? I must admit that the sound on the old CD always has been a letdown for me.

Daniel, I agree about Joe and KD- they were a great match.

I also agree that the Mode for Joe RVG has greatly improved sound, but how you feel about the session is up to you. Many on this board have raved about sessions that I was only lukewarm to. I like MFJ because of the particular combination of players, plus the writer in me loves all the great sounding arrangements. It's hard to argue that it's NOT a great session IMHO, but you needn't worry if it's not your favorite.

[Swinging Swede]

How should I approach 'Mode for Joe' to really get into it? By throwing away my McMaster and giving it a fresh start with the new RVG? I must admit that the sound on the old CD always has been a letdown for me.

If you decide to get the RVG, make sure that you get the American CD version. In Europe it is released on a copy controlled format with impaired sound. Since you’ve been away, I wasn't sure if you’ve read about this latest development.

I’m keeping my 1988 CD. It may be an older remastering, but at least it doesn’t have intentional errors inserted in the audio portion, or force me to play compressed data files on the computer.

[Rooster_Ties]

I can't imagine how the new Copy Controlled version could sound even half as bad as the 1988 mastering, which was pretty bad. (The old one was really pretty darn lousy, if you ask me.)

Have you actually heard any of the "copy controlled" CD's?? Do they really sound that bad??

[Claude]

I haven't seen any evidence of degraded sound quality with the protection scheme used by EMI (Cactus Datashield 200). But I won't buy a european RVG to test it.

[Jazzmoose]

I don't mean to sidetrack this thread, but how is that book, GofM? I've seen it at stores a couple of times but never really felt compelled to pick it up, for one reason or another.

pryan, I'd put it near the top of my list as far as general jazz books go. There's probably one or two I'd put higher, but I definitely liked Hard Bop. A lot of jazz books seem rather superficial and poorly written to me, but this one is a good read.

[BFrank]

So, anyone picked up "Search For The New Land" or "Adam's Apple"?? Are they as great as they "should" be?

Those two plus "MFJ" - I will have to pick up SOON.

[jmjk]

I picked up SFTNL and Adam's Apple, and they both sound better than ever (but to my ears not as great as Mode for Joe).

Adam's Apple never did much for me, and I thought hearing the RVG may endear me to it a bit more---nope. The sound is fantastic, but the session still fails to excite me. SFTNL on the other hand---wow! Love it.

[BruceH]

I'm sure I'm missing something; I always thought 'Mode for Joe' was Joe's least enjoyable BN album. I would say that 'In 'n Out' is the one I'm digging the most, with 'Our Thing' and 'Page One' just a notch behind. (Anyone else who thinks Joe and Kenny were one of the best tenor-trumpet matches ever?)

How should I approach 'Mode for Joe' to really get into it? By throwing away my McMaster and giving it a fresh start with the new RVG? I must admit that the sound on the old CD always has been a letdown for me.

Yeah, Our Thing is my favorite Henderson Blue Note, with Inner Urge right up there. But the RVG has made a difference to me, I must admit. It's one of those RVG's with a quite noticeable sound difference---more "sparkle" than the old CD (pardon me for getting too technical). It's made my ears sit up and take notice anyway, as the album is moving right up on my list of favorite Hendersons. Much bigger difference with MFJ than with Adam's Apple or even SFTNL, though they both sound good to me. I'm sure this difference, which I hear as an improvement, is going to be castigated by some, but hey, we don't all have the original 60's vinyl release.

Bottom line, Dan---this is the perfect time to give MFJ another chance, if you care to spring for it.

[Swinging Swede]

I can't imagine how the new Copy Controlled version could sound even half as bad as the 1988 mastering, which was pretty bad.  (The old one was really pretty darn lousy, if you ask me.)

Have you actually heard any of the "copy controlled" CD's??  Do they really sound that bad??

The relevant comparison is with the CD version of the same RVG remaster. In EMI’s own words:

"Q:

Why when I copy the files using Microsoft® Windows Media® Player are there clicks, jumps or distortions in the music ?

A:

Because the disc carries copy control technology which prevents digital copying."

It is well known that this is a result of the audio tracks containing intentionally inserted errors, which the error correction scheme on a computer can’t correct. Regular CD players feature a different error correction scheme that can correct the errors, but at the price of impaired sound quality. This has been verified by hi-fi tests where listeners have been able to pick out which is the copy controlled disc and which is the CD. Of course whether you can discern it may depend on your equipment and your ears, and there may also be different variations of this technological approach that may affect the sound more or less. But I think it is safe to say that constantly inserted errors only can be detrimental to the audio quality. A side effect of this is that these discs are much more vulnerable to scratches. Since there already are so many errors in them, much less additional damage is needed to make them skip.

And this is only if you play them on a regular CD player. If you play them on a computer, the audio section isn’t played at all. Instead the disc has its own player program that pops up and plays compressed files that obviously have to be of a much lower quality than CD tracks. And on car CD players and DVD players the disc may not be playable at all. Forget about burning compilation discs, or reburning in recording or album order. Also forget about ripping any track to include on an Organissimo Blindfold Test CD!

I plan to read up more on this subject (Claude has posted many useful links, especially in the AAJ thread), but what I’ve read so far has already made me fully convinced not to spend any money on this obviously inferior format. I’d rather buy the American CD version of the same title, even if it’s more expensive for me. Or buy something from another label for the same money. I think it is important that we as customers send a message to Blue Note/EMI that we don’t accept this inferior format.

Edited September 4, 2003 by Swinging Swede

[BruceH]

OK, it's official, Mode For Joe is now my favorite Henderson. Damn that RVG sounds good!

[Daniel A]

You have convinced me to give Mode for Joe another try! I think I will get rid of the McMaster - which I haven't listened to for over a year - without trying it again and get the RVG. But no Cactus Datashield for me, though.

[BFS]

How 'bout one of the great Leo Parker Blue Notes? Have they forgotten these? Rollin' with Leo would be a great RVG addition!

Edited September 7, 2003 by BFS

[CJ Shearn]

"Mode For Joe" is outstanding. I just got it in the mail today, first time hearing the date and I definitely agree with everyone re: "Carribean Fire Dance". I ordered "Our Thing" tonight in addition to "Unity" which I've been meaning to grab.

[Claude]

I received the Sep. 2 RVG batch - except the Bud Powell disc - today from CD Universe ($8.39 promo) and compared them to the old 80's Blue Note CDs.

The sound is greatly improved (especially the drums), and is very well balanced. Not overly bright, and no reduction of the stereo spread as some previous RVGs (Go, Unity). "Mode for Joe" has the same distortion on ensemble passages as the tracks that are in the Henderson 4CD box. It's probably on the master tape.

[wesbed]

I'd never seen the cover of the Horace Silver Trio album till I purchased it from Borders last weekend. The Trio album has the orange cover and, if I remember correctly, Horace & the Jazz Messengers has the blue cover.

How many times was this same cover used by Blue Note?

[jazzbo]

At least twice! I think only twice. . . . But I'm not an artwork fiend or connoisseur.

[skeith]

I picked up Mode for Joe, Adam's Apple, and Let Freedom Ring.

I compared the marvelous Mode for Joe with my Japanese pre-rvg copy (what you guys call TOCJs?) and it is an interesting comparison. I note that the new RVG has more definition and clarity with less sort of a hazy feel that the import gives, but the image presented (at a similar volume level) is smaller than the import and seems flatter to me - I get that row 30 feel from the new RVg while i get that row 2 feeling from the import.

So it is no easy call for me between the two versions.

Anyone else notice this?

[CJ Shearn]

Skeith, even thru crappy headphones, I only have the RVG of "Mode for Joe" to reference, but like "Indestructible" from the last batch I hear a deeper soundstage more 3 dimensional in feel, and also an enormous amount of detail (even thru small speakers in my dorm) on Joe Chambers' K's, a lot of stick tones, warm overtones and a defined attack is present.

[BruceH]

"Mode For Joe" is outstanding. I just got it in the mail today, first time hearing the date and I definitely agree with everyone re: "Carribean Fire Dance". I ordered "Our Thing" tonight in addition to "Unity" which I've been meaning to grab.

Yes indeed! And how about the third track, "Black"? Lately I've been shamelessly hitting the 'repeat' button on that composition. Got to pay some bills? Play "Black." Time to make supper---put on "Black." Read a book...a background of "Black" would be nice. Helping the kids with homework will surely go better with some "Black" on... Well, you get the idea.

[John Tapscott]

The only one I've gotten so for is Lee's SFTNL. I've never heard it before and I really like it, esp. the title track and Mr. Kenyatta. The sound is just fine as far as I'm concerned, and including Grant Green on this album was an inspired move. I think Canadian guitarist Sonny Greenwich must have listened to this album a great deal. There's a lot of Green influence in his playing, esp. from this album's title track.

[skeith]

the more I listen to these, the more I like them. I may want to retract my earlier statement about sound quality.

[Adam]

Another 10 days gone by; any more opinions?

[jazzbo]

So far I've gathered up the Bud and the Jackie, and I'm very fond of the sound of both. Nice to have all the box set Buds in remastered sound now! (I have all the RVGs, and a TOCJ Superbit remastering of the Roost material.)