New Monk bio in progress by Robin Kelley

[JSngry]

well, it's stasis. Ok for some, not for others - it doesn't work for me, doesn't work for many people I know. Leads to senility and even dementia sometimes (according to some recent studies). Leads also to older artists rejecting anything new in a kind of wave of false nostalgia, and to attempts to reign in the new, which can not be reigned in. Leads to people becoming jaded or smug, because they feel they know all there is to know. Leads to young people justifiably becoming impatient with older people. Leads to alienation and isolation. To me, but obviously not to everyone, that's equivalent to death.

Indeed, but what's wrong with death? I mean, I'm in no real hurry, and yeah, it's kinda creeping me out to be feeling it approaching now, but ultimately, what's wrong with it? You gotta die, I gotta die, we all gotta die. and when we do, we've either done it or we haven't. The lead in time ain't no party, but...out with the old, in with the new, the more things change, etc.

I'm obsolete, I admit it. I'm a freebop tenor player, occasional composer, got the skills to make some $$$ doing weddings and R&B and such, have had a blast (personally & musically) doing it, but the world has changed, and it's somebody else's time now. They can (and often enough to make it fun, do) call me if/when, but...it's not my world out there anymore, nor should it be. My world is in here with my family (immediate and otherwise), and...I'm more at peace now than ever, except when called upon to "go back" in some form or fashion. It just ain't there anymore, at least not for me. When it was there, it was a blast, but it's over.

Time to move on, which at some point is going to mean doing the death thing, and...I hope to die with more grace than I have lived. But to make that happen is gonna take some work. Carpe diem.

[jeffcrom]

I have nothing to add to the direction(s) this thread has taken. I just wanted to say that I just finished Kelley's book about Monk, and it deeply impressed and moved me. The depth of research is incredible, and it seems unlikely that it will be surpassed for many years, if ever. Yes, I found flawed passages, but it would be unrealistic to expect otherwise in a work of this length. Warts and all, I consider this a great book about a musical genius.

[jeffcrom]

Indeed, but what's wrong with death? I mean, I'm in no real hurry, and yeah, it's kinda creeping me out to be feeling it approaching now, but ultimately, what's wrong with it? You gotta die, I gotta die, we all gotta die. and when we do, we've either done it or we haven't....

Time to move on, which at some point is going to mean doing the death thing, and...I hope to die with more grace than I have lived. But to make that happen is gonna take some work. Carpe diem.

Off-topic, perhaps, but I enjoyed reading this post, Jim. I've always liked the Buddhist dictum "Live a good life, and die a good death."

[Jim Alfredson]

SPOILER ALERT:

Monk dies at the end.

Post of the year.

[ghost of miles]

I'd say simply that we've had Monk's music, to one degree or another, for 60+ years now and will have it, to one degree or another, for a long time to come. I'm grateful to my deity-of-choice for that. What we haven't had--what I haven't seen, anyway, in my admittedly limited experience and reading--is a judicious, fact-grounded, and sympathetic book-length effort to present him as a human being, as a man and musician, rather than the Strange God o' Bebop or what-have-you. (Not to say that certain such qualities weren't present in Monk... my only qualm with the book so far is that I think Kelley's so driven to knock down the Strange God o' Bebop image that he periodically risks appearing to deny the complex reality of Monk's overall personality even as he's documenting it.)

The book has actually sent me back to the music, which I haven't listened to in the past year or so. (And Lon, thanks much for the tip on the Ben Riley tribute... it arrived yesterday, looking forward to hearing it.) And it's been refreshing as hell, again, to get some sense of the man behind the mythic mist. Makes me appreciate the music that much more. I don't need the bio/story to appreciate the music, but I don't need to keep away from it in order to preserve the music's magic either. Or some such. It's admittedly a touchy issue, given the longstanding, prurient fetishization of jazz musicians' life-stories ("Bird ate/drank/shot-up/screwed/then-soloed, etc., etc.") and its opposite prim/curt whitewash of any such talk that's kind of insulting in its own way.

Anyway, it's a great time of year to be reading this book. Something about Monk's music goes really well with the way I feel in autumn (and spring, too).

[medjuck]

one thing that strikes me about Monk in this book is how infantile he is, ultimately - Nellie follows him around, feeds him, clothes him, does his laundry, makes all his arrangements, travels with him, gets him to his gigs, while always allowing him the to be an "artiste" - reminds me of what Walter Bishop told me about Bud Powell, whom he described as "infantile in every respect - except music."

Martin Williams makes a similar observation about Bird-- though of course one would never describe Bird as infantile. He writes of Bird's approach to music contrasting it with his personal life:

".....perhaps in that life he did live the negative side of his self-determined musical persona.

What saves one from the ultimate, implicit self-destruction of heedlessness is ... knowing the consequences and effects of one's actions, and taking responsibility for them. In any case, heedlessness was not a part of Charlie Parker's music."

I'm sure there are musical geniuses who are also geniuses at living an orderly life, but none come to mind immediately.

Edited October 28, 2009 by medjuck

[papsrus]

I was convinced about a third the way into this thread that I had no real grasp of criticism; I was convinced about halfway through that I needed to read this bio; I was convinced about three quarters the way into it that I did not need to read this book at all; I am convinced now that I must.

Excellent discussion, all. A little bit blown away right now. Will sleep on it.

Listening to Monk's Music, starting with tracks 4 & 5.

[AllenLowe]

per Medjuck, musicians of all stripes tend to have messy lives - but sometimes a genius has control over things, in one way or another, For all their foibles, neither Jaki Byard nor Dave Schildkraut required the kind of maintenance that Monk or Powell required. Both were geniuses but grownups (though my favorite line was by a famous producer who told me "the only grownup I've ever known among jazz musicians is Al Cohn"). But there are varying degrees of brilliance, and other musicians I've known, like Barry Harris or Dick Katz, for two good examples, live their own lives and organize themselves just fine. So it can happen.

per Jsngry, nothing wrong with that approach to life and death; personally I intend to put up some major resistance, and not go gentle into that good night until I have no further choices. But as a musician I cannot stand to be passive; to each his own, as the saying goes, the problem with jazz musicians is when they ignore this dictum and instead tell everyone else that they're wrong (hence some of Monk's conservatism as he rails against the New Thing). It's fine to define your own space and creative parameters; the problem is when you start to lose sight of the fact that others have different ways of doing things. Or when your own cynicism becomes a substitute for judgment ("There are always those who confuse disillusionment with truth." - Sartre, The Words)

This is not to say that we surrender any creative or critical judgment in the process; only that it is imperative, if we are going to make these kinds of judgments, to know more than just our own narrow world (a knowledge which JsNgry has clearly already shown in these forums). I guess it ain't hatch you do,,,,

Edited October 28, 2009 by AllenLowe

[jazzbo]

Well, it is an excellent book. I wanted more grit, but then I'm greedy. So glad it's out and offers so much.

I'd be interested in reading Peter Keepnews' bio if it ever appears.

[Michael Weiss]

or maybe not enough....

I'm all for intellectual curiosity about and exploration into... the process - of making music - composing, improvising, what have you.

But as far as what Monk had for breakfast that morning, no thank you. One of my greatest pleasures in life is discussing scale and chord choices with Barry Harris.

This is all off topic of the book itself, which I haven't read yet, so pardon the intrusion.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Michael Weiss

[AllenLowe]

actually, there is no meal information in the book (as far as I've read) -

only thing I would add is that the process, as I'm sure you know, is more than chord/scale choices. Barry is a perfect example; I spent a lot of time with him in the 1970s and I learned more about the music-making process than I could have by just reading about it or even taking formal study. It had a lot to do with his whole attitude toward the music, the way he carried himself, the way he treated other people, and the way he lived his life. Barry is one of the last of that whole school, IMHO, a great musical charismatic/guru. His records are fine, but until you have been in his presense it is hard to really understand his whole aura.

Be that as it may, the Kelley book quite brilliantly sums up many of the same traits in Monk (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse). For a lot of people, that whole generation is gone and unattainable; I caught only the tail end of it (I was fortunate enough to catch Mingus/Monk/Ornette/Miles in the 1960s, though only Ornette was really at his peak) - books as as good as this restore a well-needed historical balance.

Edited October 28, 2009 by AllenLowe

[Clunky]

My copy landed the other day, judging by the pages I've dipped into to be well written in an attractive and readable style as well as being really well researched.

[blajay]

or maybe not enough....

I'm all for intellectual curiosity about and exploration into... the process - of making music - composing, improvising, what have you.

But as far as what Monk had for breakfast that morning, no thank you. One of my greatest pleasures in life is discussing scale and chord choices with Barry Harris.

This is all off topic of the book itself, which I haven't read yet, so pardon the intrusion.

Well, I definitely think you'd find far more meaning in this book than information about Monk's meals. For pretty much every composition that Monk recorded, and even the ones he didn't, Kelley tells us the story behind its genesis. This includes scale and chord choices, as well as title names, etc.

[blajay]

Kelley's reading at City Lights Bookstore last night

 was a pretty inspiring experience for me.  As I've indicated, I have thoroughly enjoyed the book, and the explanations that he provided yesterday enhanced the whole experience.  Besides having the privilege to hear some of the revealing music from the home tapes that Nellie and Nica kept (including a Christmas carol), it was a pleasure just to listen to tunes like "Little Rootie Tootie."  I listen to those Prestige recordings for many mornings on my bus commute through headphones, but it was a more powerful experience to hear it in a room filled with so much concentrated love for Monk.  He emphasized Monk's honest struggle to make it with a hit, his dedication to his family, his often loquaciousness and punctuality despite having been characterized only as an eccentric loner that doesn't adhere to society's rules, among many other things.  In the Q&A session he told use more about the treatment of Monk by the different record labels and about Monk's music as a form of literature.  I then asked to hear more about Herbie Nichols, the writer, and he gave a great overview.  I was able to chat with Kelley briefly afterward, too, which was a real honor.  It was a lovely evening.

[AllenLowe]

thanks for that - the passages in the book about Monk encountering Bud Powell after Bud has moved to Europe are just incredibly heart breaking - the obvious love between them, Monk's solicitousness toward Bud, the sadness of the reunions as Bud slips more and more away.

just amazing. Those two musicians represent so much more than I can ever express.

[Hoppy T. Frog]

well, it's stasis. Ok for some, not for others - it doesn't work for me, doesn't work for many people I know. Leads to senility and even dementia sometimes (according to some recent studies). Leads also to older artists rejecting anything new in a kind of wave of false nostalgia, and to attempts to reign in the new, which can not be reigned in. Leads to people becoming jaded or smug, because they feel they know all there is to know. Leads to young people justifiably becoming impatient with older people. Leads to alienation and isolation. To me, but obviously not to everyone, that's equivalent to death.

Indeed, but what's wrong with death? I mean, I'm in no real hurry, and yeah, it's kinda creeping me out to be feeling it approaching now, but ultimately, what's wrong with it? You gotta die, I gotta die, we all gotta die. and when we do, we've either done it or we haven't. The lead in time ain't no party, but...out with the old, in with the new, the more things change, etc.

I'm obsolete, I admit it. I'm a freebop tenor player, occasional composer, got the skills to make some $$$ doing weddings and R&B and such, have had a blast (personally & musically) doing it, but the world has changed, and it's somebody else's time now. They can (and often enough to make it fun, do) call me if/when, but...it's not my world out there anymore, nor should it be. My world is in here with my family (immediate and otherwise), and...I'm more at peace now than ever, except when called upon to "go back" in some form or fashion. It just ain't there anymore, at least not for me. When it was there, it was a blast, but it's over.

Time to move on, which at some point is going to mean doing the death thing, and...I hope to die with more grace than I have lived. But to make that happen is gonna take some work. Carpe diem.

Dude, you're like, what, in your fifties? Isn't it a little too early to wish for death's sweet embrace? I like you man, but take a walk in the woods or teach a child to read or something.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Hoppy T. Frog

[JSngry]

I'll be 54 in December.

Where do you see me "wishing for" death?

[seeline]

I've gotta agree with you, JS. Carpe diem indeed! (I'm a year younger than you; I think we all start becoming more aware of our mortality once we hit middle age...)

*

Re. the bio. itself, am enjoying it very much, while simultaneously feeling a bit KO'd at all the background research Kelley did for the opening chapters alone - the background on the San Juan Hill neighborhood is great. He's a very diligent researcher, and I think anyone who reads this book will be hard-pressed to find much fault with what he did. (Re. the drug abuse, etc., I honestly think more detail would have put the book in tabloid territory, and appreciate Kelley's discretion.)

Edited October 31, 2009 by seeline

[AllenLowe]

yeah I agree, there's enough anyway, including a near-fatal overdose. I also think the last days at Nica may be a little different than the way its recounted in the bio - Barry Harris used to tell me that when he lived with Monk at the time, Monk would start a conversation and then pick it up in the exact same place months later. Kelley downplays this aspect, for one reason or another.

Also, just to meniton, a few days after Monk died Barry was booked at the Angry Squire (a club on 23rd St and 7th) and I was there and he did nothing but Monk tunes, it was quite an amazing night.

another thing I would note is that Kelley mentions the Central Park concert where Monk opened for Miles Davis (1969?). He quotes someone as saying how well Monk played - well, I was there, and Monk barely played; it was a weird evening, he seemed basically comatose.

great book, though; I also remember the night Monk and Mingus came to Bradley's (not sure if they were together) in 1974 or 1975 to hear Jaki Byard; Kelley refers to this somewhere, I think; it was an odd night; Monk lurched around the place and kept up a conversation with Byard, who kept playing his tunes and laughing. This was quite a convergence of talent, and just makes me sad at how many of those guys have left us -

[papsrus]

Very nice recollections, Allen. Thanks for sharing them.

[WorldB3]

Kelley's reading at City Lights Bookstore last night

 was a pretty inspiring experience for me.  As I've indicated, I have thoroughly enjoyed the book, and the explanations that he provided yesterday enhanced the whole experience.  Besides having the privilege to hear some of the revealing music from the home tapes that Nellie and Nica kept (including a Christmas carol), it was a pleasure just to listen to tunes like "Little Rootie Tootie."  I listen to those Prestige recordings for many mornings on my bus commute through headphones, but it was a more powerful experience to hear it in a room filled with so much concentrated love for Monk.  He emphasized Monk's honest struggle to make it with a hit, his dedication to his family, his often loquaciousness and punctuality despite having been characterized only as an eccentric loner that doesn't adhere to society's rules, among many other things.  In the Q&A session he told use more about the treatment of Monk by the different record labels and about Monk's music as a form of literature.  I then asked to hear more about Herbie Nichols, the writer, and he gave a great overview.  I was able to chat with Kelley briefly afterward, too, which was a real honor.  It was a lovely evening.

Thanks for that, I can't wait to get my hands on the book.

Allen, thanks you for your recollections also.

[marcello]

I've finished the book and loved it.

I got curious and looked up Nica's address on a satellite server.

It's gone!

Just a foundation for what looks like a new home, or maybe a garage for the mansion next door.

63 Kingswood Road, Weehawken, NJ 07086

[AllenLowe]

I'm pretty certain that Barry Harris still lives there - or at least I thought so - hmmmmmmmmm...

Edited November 1, 2009 by AllenLowe

[papsrus]

Some of you have probably already seen this, and it has nothing to do directly with the Kelley book, but thought it might be of interest. Some notes of advice Monk wrote to Steve Lacy. Beyond that, the thread at AAJ doesn't really offer much further insight about where it came from.

[7/4]

The Definitive Monk Bio: So, Was He Crazy, or What?

Thelonious Monk - Published: November 2, 2009

By Dr. Judith Schlesinger

AAJ article here.

edit for a comment: this is a different twist on the usual shit I run into on a day to day basis...crazy people who think they're a genius.

Edited November 2, 2009 by 7/4