Unreleased Jackie McLean 1968 Blue Note session

[Kyo]

Just stumbled over this discography entry:

Jackie McLean Sextet

Woody Shaw (tp) Jackie McLean (as) Tyrone Washington (ts) Bobby Hutcherson (vib) Scott Holt (b) Norman Connors (d)

Plaza Sound Studios, NYC, July 5, 1968

3054 In Case You Haven't Heard Blue Note rejected

3055 Hymn To Rap -

3056 One For Jeru -

3057 Kupenda -

3058 Abrasion -

Why has this session remained unissued until today? The lineup sounds very interesting IMO!

[Chuck Nessa]

Just stumbled over this discography entry:

Jackie McLean Sextet

Woody Shaw (tp) Jackie McLean (as) Tyrone Washington (ts) Bobby Hutcherson (vib) Scott Holt (b) Norman Connors (d)

Plaza Sound Studios, NYC, July 5, 1968

3054 In Case You Haven't Heard Blue Note rejected

3055 Hymn To Rap -

3056 One For Jeru -

3057 Kupenda -

3058 Abrasion -

Why has this session remained unissued until today? The lineup sounds very interesting IMO!

'cause it sucks. As I understand only first takes were made 'cause JM was unhappy with the drummer and wanted the session over. Gotta respect the wishes of the leader.

[Kyo]

'cause it sucks. As I understand only first takes were made 'cause JM was unhappy with the drummer and wanted the session over. Gotta respect the wishes of the leader.

Damn! Too bad they didn't try the material again with a different drummer later on.

Thanks for the information!

[Ken Dryden]

Michael Cuscuna has frequently said that such unreleased Blue Note sessions may look good but were held back for a damned good reason.

[Rooster_Ties]

It very may well be bad enough to stay locked in the can forever and always (Chuck, I'm saying you're probably right), but I'd sure as hell love to hear any line-up with...

Woody Shaw (tp), Jackie McLean (as), and Tyrone Washington (ts)

Woody and Tyrone -- DAMN!!!

Edited March 15, 2007 by Rooster_Ties

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

i'd pay 15.99 to hear what a crappy jackie mclean session sounds like!

[Chas]

i'd pay 15.99 to hear what a crappy jackie mclean session sounds like!

You don't have to spend that .

You can find out for two or three " big ones " :

Edited March 15, 2007 by Chas

[mikeweil]

"In Case You Haven't Heard" - wasn't this a Woody Shaw tune?

Norman Connors in 1968 ....... would be interesting to hear him in a hardbop context. On the Pharoah Sanders dates soon after and his own records it is hard to find out what his drumming style as an accompanist really was - sounds a little like the band swung on by themselves and he played along!

[Stefan Wood]

"In Case You Haven't Heard" - wasn't this a Woody Shaw tune?

Norman Connors in 1968 ....... would be interesting to hear him in a hardbop context. On the Pharoah Sanders dates soon after and his own records it is hard to find out what his drumming style as an accompanist really was - sounds a little like the band swung on by themselves and he played along!

This is a nice album with Connors as a leader:

Edited March 15, 2007 by Stefan Wood

[bertrand]

From jazzdiscography.com:

Date: July 5, 1968

Location: Plaza Sound Studios, New York City

Label: Blue Note

Jackie McLean (ldr), Jackie McLean (as), Tyrone Washington (ts), Woody Shaw (t), Bobby Hutcherson (vib), Scotty Holt (b), Norman Connors (d)

a. 3054 In Case You Haven't Heard (Woody Shaw)

b. 3055 Hymn To Rap (Jackie McLean)

c. 3056 One For Jeru (Norman Connors)

d. 3057 Kupenda

e. 3058 Abrasion (Jackie McLean)

All performances were rejected.

We haven't been able to find a composer for 'Kupenda' yet. I'm betting it's Tyrone W.

Chuck, have you actually heared this, or are you basing you reply on the interview in Cadence or Coda (can't remember which) where Jackie rags on Connors for ruining this date?

Bertrand.

[Chuck Nessa]

Chuck, have you actually heared this, or are you basing you reply on the interview in Cadence or Coda (can't remember which) where Jackie rags on Connors for ruining this date?

Bertrand.

I have not heard the session. I've known about the session since the mid '70s and based my response on conversations with McLean and Cuscuna.

[Rooster_Ties]

Other than Michael of course, there's at least an even odds chance David Weiss has heard this date. He's at least heard the now mythical Tyrone Washington "Trainwreck" session, and also the unreleased Wayne Shorter session too. Here's a post I made elsewhere on the board once...

=====

Here's more info about the 'trainwreck' than probably any one here has ever seen (or heard). (Weiss also talked about an unreleased Wayne Shorter BN session too.) The quote comes from this thread on AAJ, but I thought I'd preserve it here too, since threads can occasionally be deleted, posts edited, etc...

Discussing the unreleased Blue Note stuff is a bit tricky. I've been lucky enough to hear a lot of stuff but I don't exactly know what the etiquette is about sharing it with others. I'll mention a few but I don't want to create a shit storm but it seems that not many are reading this thread so I'll take a chance.

OK, the Tyrone Washington trainwreck date is not so bad. It is kind of out there though there are tunes, some interesting ones in fact. Herbie Hancock plays great on it and is very experimental at times. Tyrone sounds most like Sam Rivers to me on this date and the date has elements of a Sam Rivers date or perhaps a little Andrew Hill with Chick Corea (with Bennie Maupin)"Is" thrown in. The real problem to me is it seems that Herbie Lewis and Jack DeJohnette never really hook up, especially on the medium tempo tunes. One tune is almost completetly free with a section of what can only be described as vocal "sounds" in a sort of deep you're a mean one Mr. Grinch voice. Stangely there is no vocal interlude on the second take, I guess that was a bit much for Alfred. There is some worthy stuff here but it couldn't be released on it's own. I guess you could put a few bonus tracks on Natural Essence but it's unlikely that that would ever be slated for release either. Oh well. What ever happened to Tyrone Washington? I've never heard anything. I did hear a story about him when he was with Horace Silver though. He took it kind of out (playing-wise I mean) on the gig with Horace once and Horace told him to play the blues. Tyrone responded that he thought he was. That was it for him in that band.

The unreleased Wayne also has it's moments. It's mostly improvised with a lot of percussion sections (mostly xylophone, Xennakis anyone?). McCoy definitely goes places I don't think he's gone before and as I said there are nice moments. Again I don't think there is enough for it to be released on it's own (if that is even an option) but my idea would be to include it a Mosaic Select with Super Nova, Moto Grosso Feio and Odyssey of Iska. But my ideas don't carry much weight. I've heard bits and pieces of Andrew Hill stuff (I think most of what I heard was what turned out to be the bonus tracks on Grass Roots) and it being Andrew Hill, I liked all I heard.

Full disclaimer -- Chuck may be absolutely right about this kind of material needing to stay under lock and key. (Doesn't mean I'm still not curious though.)

Edited March 15, 2007 by Rooster_Ties

[Peter Friedman]

After reading the descriptions of these sessions by David Weiss I personally won't miss hearing them. They don't sound at all like anything that would interest me.

[Rooster_Ties]

After reading the descriptions of these sessions by David Weiss I personally won't miss hearing them. They don't sound at all like anything that would interest me.

I'll agree with you about the Wayne date, which sounds pretty lackluster. But much of Tyrone's "Trainwreck" sounds kinda interesting, actually. Not all of it, mind you, but I'd love to hear two or three tracks of it someday as bonus material on an "Natural Essence" Conn.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

chewy is here to expose that it is a solid fact that these tapes are circulating in the hands of ""collectiors"" of the middle-aged, bearded variety. shave the love boys. ecm 4 ever!

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

meant to say: share the love

[JSngry]

Shaving the love has its place too...

[andybleaden]

Ah yes of course. I am slightly bearded, no sweater and only 38 and LOVE ECM . Should I shave my love too?

[clifford_thornton]

30, big ass beard and a smattering of ECMs.

Norman Connors is fine, though I doubt he could "push" with Jackie.

[Shrdlu]

I like Connors' "Dance of Magic" album. That was made several years later. But you gotta respect Jackie's wishes.

No-one else ever shaved me, boo, hoo!

[clifford_thornton]

I would like to hear these some way/some how, even if they stink.

[Gheorghe]

Well, the drummer is the most important thing. I can´t say nothing about that session because I haven´t heard it, but I got several albums I don´t like because I´m disappointed with the drummer.

I don´t remember the title, but about 10 or more years ago there was a before unissued Freddie Redd album, with a nice line up with Tina Brooks, Paul Chambers and so, but with a drummer I didn´t like. I haven´t listened often to that album.

[bertrand]

At this point, it seems the McLean tape has been lost forever, so it's all a moot point, unless someone kept a copy...

Bertrand.

[jazzbo]

chewy is here to expose that it is a solid fact that these tapes are circulating in the hands of ""collectiors"" of the middle-aged, bearded variety. shave the love boys. ecm 4 ever!

Wow, glad to know they are out there somewhere. Maybe if I grew a beard again I could get my hands on them? I'm a middle-aged "collector". . . just lack the beard!

Edited November 28, 2014 by jazzbo

[Kevin Bresnahan]

New (old) interview with Jackie McLean has been posted: https://ethaniverson.com/interviews/interview-with-jackie-mclean-by-steve-lehman/

In it, Jackie goes into some detail about this unissued session.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Steve Lehman:  The last thing I wanted to ask you about…because I mentioned the session in 1968 with Tyrone Washington and Norman Connors. And how it was free but you were conducting things, and this never got released.

Jackie McLean:  Yes. Right.

SL:  This idea of conducting, and groove and giving cues and stuff, you did it actually in class a few times.

JM:  Yeah, uh huh.

SL:  And it was really like a wake up call for me. Because, playing in Anthony Braxton’s group…not to simplify it, but, in some ways, his music is really based on a pretty intricate set of cues that we all can give each other and that he can give us, so that anything can happen. We can all be playing a piece together, if he wants. Or there can be three different pieces going on at once. He always talked about the Coltrane Ascension date of being the root of that, of John kind of directing…

JM:  Directing, yeah…

SL:   So, when you said that you had done it too, it was kind of like, “Oh, ok, so there’s an evolution.”

JM:  Right.

SL:  So, if you could just talk about what was going on, because I don’t want to misquote or anything.

JM:  Well, it’s funny, that’s where I’m going, like in a direction like that. I want to get my rhythm section rehearsed well enough now so that they can follow me somewhere and do some things with me under direction. So, in other words, like some signals, preset signals to go into a particular thing, you know. Or where it would be to have it so that the drums set-up a rhythm and go from there. Or whatever.

But, that day, when we did that record date with Tyrone, Tyrone wrote one or two charts, and Woody Shaw wrote one or two, and then Bobby Hutcherson. And then I wrote some sketches that would be done and some notes that would be done by direction. And then we had some ideas set that we would do tempo here. And then I’d direct them to drop out and let the melody hang, like one horn at a time. And then I’d point to somebody to come in, whether it would be the bass, you know. It was great, man.

SL:  Yeah.

JM:  It was like I was improvising using them as an instrument like, you know. And it was great. It was fun.

And I have never heard that session.

SL:  Oh really?

JM:  Never heard it.

SL:  I hope it sees the light of day someday. Mr. McLean, this has been a real thrill.