Braxton 12+1tet box set preview

[7/4]

Organissimo sure is rough...

But whatever we don't kill becomes stronger!

Prof. Braxton hasn't let anything stop him yet!

[Larry Kart]

But by and large they look like rather young people and sound and look like they're not that familiar with the music they're trying to play. Is that is so tricky to understand? Or do you think that they're on top of this music as much as Braxton himself is?

These musicians are extremely familiar with Braxton's music. About two-thirds of them have studied with Braxton, and a quarter of them (Fei, Lehman, Bynum) have been studying with and/or performing with Braxton for over a decade. Nicole Mitchell was the only real newcomer, and you will not be surprised to hear that Braxton said she was playing "as if she'd been with them for 10 years."

“Being on top of this music as much as Braxton himself”? That’s a tricky issue given the tri-centric, multi-hierarchical methodology I mentioned above. (For more insight into the tri-centric approach, check out the liner notes to 4 Compositions (Ulrichsberg) 2005.) Plus, Braxton himself claims to understand only 40% of what he's doing!

But in all seriousness, these musicians in the 12+1tet knew what they were doing. And they did it incredibly well.

BTW, I certainly don't have anything against young musicians. It's just that I get spoiled listening to young musicians who can really play, and the ones who can usually don't shrug, wink, and the like while doing so.

Are having fun and “really playing” mutually exclusive?

In any case, this is all premature since you presumably haven’t heard the recordings.

I look forward to your thoughts after you hear them.

I didn't mean at all by "shrug, wink, and the like" that the these players looked like they were "having fun" (though that's certainly possible). Rather, they looked to me like they were unsure of themselves at times, glancing around for cues, etc. -- though this may be a function of what Braxton wants or doesn't want them to do in this music. Obviously, I could be wrong about how I interpreted what I saw, but I have been watching people play music -- some of it quite "advanced" -- for more than 50 years now, and I'd be surprised if these players had come with a new way to "look" while playing as well as a new way to sound.

Also, there is, at least potentially, both an upside and downside to "About two-thirds of them have studied with Braxton, and a quarter of them ... have been studying with and/or performing with Braxton for over a decade." The upside is obvious; the potential downside is that a master-disciple relationship with a figure such as Braxton -- who is an actual master himself of course but probably denies the fruitfulness or meaningfulness of such relationships on philosophical/aesthetic grounds -- could leave certain players of certain temperaments feeling more confused than liberated, if in fact liberation is a goal here. Whatever, as you say, all this is premature -- though you did post the video in the hope of getting reactions to it.

[jasonguthartz]

I didn't mean at all by "shrug, wink, and the like" that the these players looked like they were "having fun" (though that's certainly possible). Rather, they looked to me like they were unsure of themselves at times, glancing around for cues, etc. -- though this may be a function of what Braxton wants or doesn't want them to do in this music. Obviously, I could be wrong about how I interpreted what I saw, but I have been watching people play music -- some of it quite "advanced" -- for more than 50 years now, and I'd be surprised if these players had come with a new way to "look" while playing as well as a new way to sound.

OK, sorry for misreading your comment.

But YES! "glancing around for cues, etc." -- this is exactly what occurs during these performances. In fact, it was my experience watching this ensemble perform at Wesleyan in fall 2005, that led me to decide to videotape these shows. There is a lot to see during the performance which helps you understand how the music is put together, e.g.: Each musician has a stack of Braxton compositions to draw from, which can be cued at any time by anyone via hand signals (Braxton has several sheets worth), white boards, and other gestures; language music improvisations are conducted via physical gestures; and musicians use signals to select other musicians with whom they want to play.

[Hoppy T. Frog]

Rather, they looked to me like they were unsure of themselves at times, glancing around for cues, etc. -- though this may be a function of what Braxton wants or doesn't want them to do in this music. Obviously, I could be wrong about how I interpreted what I saw, but I have been watching people play music -- some of it quite "advanced" -- for more than 50 years now, and I'd be surprised if these players had come with a new way to "look" while playing as well as a new way to sound.

stuff deleted.

Jason said it better than me, and beat me to it.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Hoppy T. Frog

[Larry Kart]

I didn't mean at all by "shrug, wink, and the like" that the these players looked like they were "having fun" (though that's certainly possible). Rather, they looked to me like they were unsure of themselves at times, glancing around for cues, etc. -- though this may be a function of what Braxton wants or doesn't want them to do in this music. Obviously, I could be wrong about how I interpreted what I saw, but I have been watching people play music -- some of it quite "advanced" -- for more than 50 years now, and I'd be surprised if these players had come with a new way to "look" while playing as well as a new way to sound.

OK, sorry for misreading your comment.

But YES! "glancing around for cues, etc." -- this is exactly what occurs during these performances. In fact, it was my experience watching this ensemble perform at Wesleyan in fall 2005, that led me to decide to videotape these shows. There is a lot to see during the performance which helps you understand how the music is put together, e.g.: Each musician has a stack of Braxton compositions to draw from, which can be cued at any time by anyone via hand signals (Braxton has several sheets worth), white boards, and other gestures; language music improvisations are conducted via physical gestures; and musicians use signals to select other musicians with whom they want to play.

OK. Thanks.

[JSngry]

hi ho Tejas y away: oh yah, i buy that & there are also non-groove parallels in avant gourd classical inc. Morty-- salut!

Well yeah, exactly. That's the struggle of our times, that between the old 3D/linear mindset & the new(ish) "omnidimensional" one. "The Powers That Be" are still fighting to keep the old ways, for obvious reasons, and the less relevant those ways become, the harder & uglier they gotta fight to impose them on us. You think all this Lowest Common Denominator Piledriver shit getting plastered everywhere is an accident or a trend from the masses? Hardly. You think that all this Sensory Blinding Empty Disorienting is just a matter of Style Du Jour? Not even.

I say pay attention to anybody anywhere who's playing this game of "opening up" what time/place/space means in music (for the sake of this discussion, but in everything in general outside of it), because it is the present, which means that it should be the way of the future, which means that it's going to scare the shit out of a lot of people, which means that resistance will come hard and heavy, which means that lives - our lives - are at stake.

There's Truth and Beauty in the various undergrounds that are alive and (reasonably) well, using the "new perceptual reality" to convey messages of freedom (as opposed to wanton self-indulgence) of mind, body, & spirit. Hear/feel them now or later, whatever fits your schedule) but by all means hear/feel them at some point, and don't be afraid. Fear will only get all of us killed.

[Chuck Nessa]

Wonderful stuff badly played.

Hmm... don't know what you're referring to specifically.

But this 12+1tet music is indeed "bad"

more

Why do you ignore the rest of my message?: "God save us from perfect performances (they will arrive for your children). "

I love this shit.

You are "too sensitive X 2".

Edited March 12, 2007 by Chuck Nessa

[jasonguthartz]

Wonderful stuff badly played.

Hmm... don't know what you're referring to specifically.

But this 12+1tet music is indeed "bad"

more

Why do you ignore the rest of my message?: "God save us from perfect performances (they will arrive for your children). "

I love this shit.

You are "too sensitive X 2".

Chuck -

I know you're generally on-board the Braxton Express. But the difficulty in conveying facetiousness online made it easy to mistake your 2nd sentence ("God save us...") as being facetious rather than the first. Sorry.

[B. Clugston]

I've had this box for a week and am still only half way through. Fantastic stuff. Great band and the addition of Nicole MItchell was an inspired one.

[RDK]

This just arrived on emusic!

[7/4]

I feel so obligated to pick this up because if I don't, it will be oop before I blink, but I have so dam much Braxton that I need listen to anyway. What to do...what to do...

[J Larsen]

I'm in the same boat. It is great music, but I'd be more inclined to by a two cd set than a nine cd set, especially given that the band is perfectly fine but not great.

[7/4]

I'm in the same boat. It is great music, but I'd be more inclined to by a two cd set than a nine cd set, especially given that the band is perfectly fine but not great.

But it's going to out of print any second!

[J Larsen]

How much is this retailing for? At the shows they were going for $100.

[7/4]

How much is this retailing for? At the shows they were going for $100.

$120 at DMG.

[J Larsen]

Where's Manny?

[7/4]

Where's Manny?

He's at the inconvenience store.

[Nate Dorward]

Hard to imagine it'll go out of print too quickly--it's pricy & large, so it's not like it'll be flying off the shelves.

I have a review copy & judging from the first two CDs (all I've listened to so far) it's well worth your time if you're a Braxtonophile.

[GregK]

I got an autographed copy from Downtown Music Gallery. It's a massive set; lots to digest. I'll be exploring this one for months. The booklet has comments on each set by a member of the band, among other essays. I haven't seen the DVD yet. As for the music, I've only made it through the first two tracks of disc one, so I don't have much to say about it yet.

[7/4]

Hard to imagine it'll go out of print too quickly--it's pricy & large, so it's not like it'll be flying off the shelves.

The last two standards quickly went out of print. I thought the opera didn't last too long.

GregK wrote:

It's a massive set; lots to digest.

I never did get around to listening to all of the opera.

[7/4]

Standards #2 is still "everywhere," tho' Tony & Co. didn't cover "I've Been Everywhere" (& I wish they did). Whether Leo "really" printed only 1000 copies or they're just slow moving bc ltd distribution... edc dunno

I thought they were both OOP. I must be misinformed.

[Nate Dorward]

Well, Leo is a law unto itself....... (see Dan Warburton's editorial a few years back about their handling of Return of the New Thing). -- & those sets are only 4 discs apiece rather than 10!

[7/4]

Well, Leo is a law unto itself....... (see Dan Warburton's editorial a few years back about their handling of Return of the New Thing). -- & those sets are only 4 discs apiece rather than 10!

You're absolutely right.

And I've been fighting the urge to become a "Braxton & Sun Ra on Leo" completest for years. I can't be the only one...

[GregK]

Standards #2 is still "everywhere," tho' Tony & Co. didn't cover "I've Been Everywhere" (& I wish they did). Whether Leo "really" printed only 1000 copies or they're just slow moving bc ltd distribution... edc dunno

There is still a copy of #2 in one of the Ann Arbor Borders (where I bought mine in 2005)

[B. Clugston]

Both Standards 4-CD sets are still available. Two years ago, Leo said that 23 Standards was sold out. Then a bunch of them were found sitting in a warehouse.