George Russell

[Shrdlu]

It would be hard for anyone into jazz not to have heard at least something about George Russell, but when the music is happening, and there are so many great albums all over the place, you can't hear and collect everything. Back in the 60s, there was so much Miles and Trane and Bird (and lots of others) to keep up with, that I didn't get to hear any of George Russell's own albums. Sure, others, such as Gil Evans, recorded pieces that George wrote, but that's not the same.

The recent Mulligan Mosaic, with the awesome "All About Rosie", sparked my curiosity, and I started to check Russell out. After all, there are so many top guys playing on his albums.

It turned out that there are plenty of his LPs on eBay, though there are several CD reissues.

First up had to be the Columbia "Modern Jazz Concert" LP, to hear that Bill Evans solo that they all rave about. They were right! This is a very interesting album. You can get it all on a Bill Evans CD, too - saw it on Amazon.

But the one that really got ahold of me is the "New York, N.Y." album. Ya gotta hear that! I got it as one of two LPs in an early 70s twofer, but it's on CD too. The LP set had no personnel details, so I listened as a blindfold test, just for fun. Wow, lots of major guys there! Hey, that's Bill Evans, ... , Bobby Brookmeyer, ... and Trane, ... wait, there's Art Farmer, ... Benny Golson, and on and on. Then, I found the personnel from discographies online, but the blindfold test was fun.

What happening sounds on that album! You don't analyse it, you just let it happen. Russell is a genius, and it feels great too. Check it out! (I'll tell ya something, as a tenor player: your reading chops would have to be in good shape to read those charts, though.)

Edited March 5, 2007 by Shrdlu

[GA Russell]

But the one that really got ahold of me is the "New York, N.Y." album. Ya gotta hear that! I got it as one of two LPs in an early 70s twofer, but it's on CD too.

Shrdlu, we talked briefly about that twofer just the other day on the "vinyl spinning" thread. Since you've mentioned it, I'll give New York, NY a spin tonight.

[Shrdlu]

Well, with a name like yours, you better!

[brownie]

But the one that really got ahold of me is the "New York, N.Y." album. Ya gotta hear that! I got it as one of two LPs in an early 70s twofer, but it's on CD too. The LP set had no personnel details, so I listened as a blindfold test, just for fun. Wow, lots of major guys there! Hey, that's Bill Evans, ... , Bobby Brookmeyer, ... and Trane, ... wait, there's Art Farmer, ... Benny Golson, and on and on.

The full personel was listed on the original Decca release! I still have the mono copy

Hey, welcome back, Shrdlu!

[clifford_thornton]

I don't have the Decca, but would like to...

The Riverside and RCA LPs have given me many hours of enjoyment. However, after the Saba sides I do lose a bit of interest.

[king ubu]

There's still one more Decca not yet on CD, right? I have the Five Spot Verve Elite, the Impulse digipack of New York NY and the ChessMates of the big band one with the spacey title.

Favourites are the OJC with Dolphy, the spacey big band one, and the first one, "Jazz Workshop".

The Beethoven Hall (it was on CD by Motor Music in the 90s) is alright, too, and somehow I have never really felt like going any further - what I read about later Russell didn't sound that great, and the one I have from later years, "The African Game" (Blue Note) isn't nearly as exciting as any of the early material!

And yes indeed, shrdlu, welcome back! We've shortly crossed paths in one of the South African thread a couple of days ago, good to see you back here!

[brownie]

There's still one more Decca not yet on CD, right? I have the Five Spot Verve Elite, the Impulse digipack of New York NY and the ChessMates of the big band one with the spacey title.

The fourth Decca is 'George Russell Sextet in K.C.'.

'Original Swinging Instrumentals' is the description on the front cover. That was music that the sextet developed during a two-week engagement at the Blue Room club in Kansas City. A very good date with interesting tunes including trombonist Dave Baker's 'War Gewessen' and an early Carla Bley contribution 'Rhymes'.

Great frontline of Don Ellis, Dave Baker and the underrated sax player Dave Young!

[Shrdlu]

The LP in the 70s twofer ("Leonard Feather Series", MCA) has great sound. Stereo, as you might expect.

The other album in the set is "Jazz In The Space Age", which is also very interesting. Much more difficult, and not such a groover, but that's not what it's about. It features both Bill Evans and Paul Bley, and for all the zillions of hours I've spent listening to Bill, I have a hard time telling which pianist is which! It's because the material calls on them not to play their favorite licks. They must have been really concentrating!

Thanks, Brownie and King Ubu! That's real nice of you. Great to be back!

[Nate Dorward]

Jazz in the Space Age is my favourite of the bunch, but basically you can't go wrong with Russell's earlier work. Great music. Most of the later stuff is disappointing, though (& tends to get hung up on endless reworkings of the same three or four compositions).

[Free For All]

I've long admired Russell's composition "All About Rosie" (included on the Mulligan CJB Mosaic). A great bit of large ensemble writing IMHO.

And another "welcome back" to our friend Shrdlu.

[brownie]

The other album in the set is "Jazz In The Space Age", which is also very interesting. Much more difficult, and not such a groover, but that's not what it's about. It features both Bill Evans and Paul Bley, and for all the zillions of hours I've spent listening to Bill, I have a hard time telling which pianist is which! It's because the material calls on them not to play their favorite licks. They must have been really concentrating!

There is a detailed account of who plays what in the liner notes to the original stereo copy I have.

Bill Evans is on the right channel (well, slightly to the right of center) while Bley is on the left channel.

And Bley does not appear on 'Dimensions' and 'Waltz from Outer Space'.

[clifford_thornton]

Brain farted and I lost track of exactly how many Deccas there were...

I did have one on Contact (? Swedish '70s label) that included a choir. I believe it was reissued later on Soul Note, and for whatever reason, it didn't grab me very hard. With the option of a cheap SN twofer, I may just have to reinvestigate.

[ep1str0phy]

There's still one more Decca not yet on CD, right? I have the Five Spot Verve Elite, the Impulse digipack of New York NY and the ChessMates of the big band one with the spacey title.

Favourites are the OJC with Dolphy, the spacey big band one, and the first one, "Jazz Workshop".

The Beethoven Hall (it was on CD by Motor Music in the 90s) is alright, too, and somehow I have never really felt like going any further - what I read about later Russell didn't sound that great, and the one I have from later years, "The African Game" (Blue Note) isn't nearly as exciting as any of the early material!

And yes indeed, shrdlu, welcome back! We've shortly crossed paths in one of the South African thread a couple of days ago, good to see you back here!

With you again, ubu--Beethoven Hall is another favorite of mine--puts Cherry in a pretty good light, although the context is unconventional for him (modal, yes, but far "boppier" in nature). Some nice playing by the otherwise unknown (to me) horns--Bertil Lovgren, Brian Trentham, Ray Pitts (although they apparently get around European circles, and Trentham was also on--of all things--Relativity Suite). The album is apparently available again--and affordable--on Universal (CD).

Ezz-thetics destroys my ass.

Nate sent me a copy of 80th Birthday Concert a while ago and it, along with the other Living Time Orchestra sides I have, are mixed affairs for me. Russell certainly knows what to do with electronics, although that doesn't always translate to the most palatable "electric" sound. I know they don't come from the same places, but Russell's Living Time stuff just smacks of knottier "jazz funk" to me.

A master, though... I have and am and will spend time with the Lydian Chromatic Concept... book, although many of it's more readily applicable ideas (in the "jazz" context) have already been condensed into summary, much-diluted form. I have yet to take something practically unique out of it, but it reads beautifully to me (in the same manner that Braxton does).

[Shrdlu]

Thanks, Free For All! And that Blakey album is a big favorite. Talk about high energy!!

Thanks for the tip, Brownie. So, it's Bill on the right. He hardly ever plays a lick that gives him away.

As I listen to "New York, N.Y.", I keep wondering why Russell wasn't used all over the place to write charts. I mean, he's up there with the likes of Manny Albam and the rest. Anyone know why there's only a little big band stuff by him on record? He can get a very conventional sound, as well as experimental.

[sidewinder]

The LP in the 70s twofer ("Leonard Feather Series", MCA) has great sound. Stereo, as you might expect.

I've got that MCA twofer set too, Shrdlu. Will try to find it later.

[ep1str0phy]

not to imply anti-intellectualism ep1-- but there are many better books (of all kinds) better than The Lydian Cro-Magnon Orgy -- it's all about sounds-- & combinations thereof-- not saying the ideas behind are uninteresting but the real point is once you realize you can do it-- "voi-fuckin'-la!" as Simenon often exclaimed. (read those books too, or instead.) not all George is equal nor should it be if even a fraction of the electric Miles worshippers (not pointing fingers here except in their absence) grappled w/electric George...

edc

Most folks who've really "digested" the Russell book (I've found) tend to equate it to either a mystical tome or a nice, discursive study. I don't think I've yet met an individual who has (directly) derived a cohesive musical vocabulary from the Russell book, but (again) the ideas are interesting enough. I've met far too many "academic" musicians in my time to get dragged down into the [theory > sound] ditch (which is a bitch when you're trying to get people, especially the "younger" cats I'm often around, out of the box--ironically).

To Russell's credit on the (later) electric material, I'm not sure I can target a peer in that category, anyhow (some Gil Evans? *gulp* Zappa?). He'll always have points for originality in my book.

[Guest donald petersen]

another good thing about some of the e-russell late 60s early 70s stuff is that he used the ECM posse. you can hear some more aggressive rypdal/garbarek/christensen on some of these albums.

actually the first garbarek solo album is called i think "george russell presents..." and it is a decent album.

[king ubu]

yo clem, I'll definitely pick up any Russell on Soulnote if I ever see any... just never saw any of it around and never really bothered enough to really hunt them... I would definitely be interested in the one that has Garbarek, seems he's great on it (if the Penguin chaps are reliable on this).

[ghost of miles]

There's still one more Decca not yet on CD, right? I have the Five Spot Verve Elite, the Impulse digipack of New York NY and the ChessMates of the big band one with the spacey title.

The fourth Decca is 'George Russell Sextet in K.C.'.

'Original Swinging Instrumentals' is the description on the front cover. That was music that the sextet developed during a two-week engagement at the Blue Room club in Kansas City. A very good date with interesting tunes including trombonist Dave Baker's 'War Gewessen' and an early Carla Bley contribution 'Rhymes'.

Great frontline of Don Ellis, Dave Baker and the underrated sax player Dave Young!

You can hear both of those tunes and two others from Kansas City on "When Russell Met Baker" (scroll down to August 12, 2006 in the archives).

David told me that Universal was thinking about reissuing Kansas City several years ago, but nothing ever came of it... I feel lucky that we even got the Five Spot album. Maybe they'll put KC up as a digital download. A couple of years ago DB and David Young did a gig here in Bloomington with a very good local rhythm section that was a reprise of the early-1960s sextet.

Edited March 7, 2007 by ghost of miles

[ep1str0phy]

David told me that Universal was thinking about reissuing Kansas City several years ago, but nothing ever came of it... I feel lucky that we even got the Five Spot album. Maybe they'll put KC up as a digital download. A couple of years ago DB and David Young did a gig here in Bloomington with a very good local rhythm section that was a reprise of the early-1960s sextet.

That gig sounds terrific. So Dave Young is still active, then?

And Baker was on cello, I assume?

Edited March 7, 2007 by ep1str0phy

[ghost of miles]

Yes, David B. was on cello. Dave Young was still active as of that gig, and I believe he's played in Indy several times since... sheldonm would probably know about his recent activities. His one leader date on Mainstream is well worth seeking out & includes another very talented Indiana musician, trumpeter Virgil Jones.

Meant to include this link in my previous post: David Baker on the Lenox School

David talks with Darius Brubeck about George Russell, Ornette, and other figures and topics from the late 1950s/early 1960s.

[Chuck Nessa]

David told me that Universal was thinking about reissuing Kansas City several years ago, but nothing ever came of it... I feel lucky that we even got the Five Spot album. Maybe they'll put KC up as a digital download. A couple of years ago DB and David Young did a gig here in Bloomington with a very good local rhythm section that was a reprise of the early-1960s sextet.

I think I have told this story before. When "At the Five Spot" was issued I spoke with Ben Young (producer) and he said the choice was between it and "In Kansas City". He said "FS" won over "KC" 'cause they thought that name would sell more cds. He said it was a shame 'cause "KC" had lots of extra material to add. He gave no indication if the extras were alternates or new tunes.

Interesting Universal thought a bar was more "salesworthy" than a city.

Forgot to mention one more insight into the "industry": Both albums were recorded in a NYC studio.

Edited March 7, 2007 by Chuck Nessa

[JSngry]

what i'm still baffled by however is the heavy '50s/'60s bias to this thread. the elder don (clementine) is surprised!

Of course you are!

[Shrdlu]

Clementine, I didn't intend any era bias when I started the thread. I mainly wanted to share what a groove the "New York, N.Y." album is. I have not heard much Russell, and certainly not any of his later stuff. Would like to.

That said, I do tend to concentrate mainly on jazz pre 1970, as there is so much fantastic stuff. But I do like quite a lot of post 1970 albums, e.g. Weather Report, Chick Corea ("No Mystery", mwah!) and so on. The kids often fire new stuff at me (Techno, etc.) and it's often very interesting. An MSN contact transferred a cut by a guy called Lange a few days ago. Real nice chord changes. If it's a groove, then it's a groove, babe!

[Shrdlu]

The LP in the 70s twofer ("Leonard Feather Series", MCA) has great sound. Stereo, as you might expect.

I've got that MCA twofer set too, Shrdlu. Will try to find it later.

Well, as mentioned, it does not give the full personnel. But Bill Evans is on every track, so you just need to look at a discography of Bill. I was surprised to see that they list a bass sax on "Big City Blues". Surely it's a baritone. It's hard to tell for sure. The only way to settle it would be to check whether it goes below the low Db (or C) of the baritone.