Horace Silver - The Jody Grind

[Kyo]

Hi there,

today I finally got my copy of Horace Silver's The Jody Grind - I've been meaning to order this album for years. My copy is officially used but looks perfect. Unfortunately it sounds terrible, there is clicking all over the left channel. I've tried the disc in a PC DVD drive and my CD changer at home and the problem was present on both. Is this a known issue? Did they ever replace copies of this album or is this problem present on all CDs available (I can't imagine, it really is quite annoying)?

Maybe I'll just have to return this one disc and get a replacement, but as I said - it does look good as new!

- Michael

[Kyo]

Heh, maybe I should've looked a bit longer before posting the question. While I didn't

find anything on alt.music.blue-note, an organissimo search via google brought me to

the claim that the album is simply mastered from an LP - that would explain a lot.

I wonder why they didn't mention any of this anywhere in the liner notes.

[mikeweil]

That's strange - I'm just listening to my US manufactured CD from 1991: no clicks or signs that it was dubbed from LP. Michael Cuscuna usually admitted this when he had to use an LP for the source. No mention wahtsoever on the liner.

I'd say you have a defective copy. Could you post a link to your search result?

[Kyo]

Sure:

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...st&p=474080

Maybe there's still hope...

Edited March 1, 2007 by Kyo

[mikeweil]

To quote from the thread you linked:

  Quote

It's been revealed that "The Jody Grind" master tape is gone and that all CD releases have used an LP master tape (known in internet parlance as a "needle drop").

"It's been revealed" - where and by whom - is there no source to quote? I have pretty good ears and usually recognize a needle drop, but here ..... if so, it's a good one!

[Bluesman]

Has anyone heard the TOCJ from 1997? I think I can get a copy but its pricey.

[mikeweil]

Okay - at the end of track 4 during the piano cadenza I heard one light tick each left and right - but the "washy" sound one hears on the right channel comes from RVG's habit of closely miking the ride cymbal.

[Kyo]

Kevin Bresnahan has proven to be a reliable source for all things Blue Note (including inside information)

over the years. Although of course he might just be confusing the album with something else.

I fear I'll have to return that disc to the seller after all.

[mikeweil]

Your expression "there is clicking all over the left channel" points in that direction - none of that on my disc.

[Kyo]

  mikeweil said:

Okay - at the end of track 4 during the piano cadenza I heard one light tick each left and right - but the "washy" sound one hears on the right channel comes from RVG's habit of closely miking the ride cymbal.

It's much more obvious than that with my copy. The first track about 13

seconds in is really bad for example (right when Horace hits that chord

going into the fifth bar). It sounds more like a digital flaw than an LP

source issue to me, but I'm far from an expert on such matters.

[RDK]

I know it sounds obvious, but have you tried cleaning the disc? I've encountered problems like that that have gone away after a light cleaning. But sometimes there are unseen digital flaws - in fact, I have a Mosaic Select disc that I need to return to them with that very problem.

[Kyo]

As I said, the disc looks perfect. I'm pretty sure that any attempt to clean it

would make it look worse - and then I wouldn't be able to return it as easily.

[mikeweil]

Good luck with the returning procedure!

[Man with the Golden Arm]

FWIW the old "silver" BN sounds like an LP, especially here and there on "Blue Silver".

I bet the RVG only makes them crickles even better!

[shaft]

Hi Guys,

I have the TOCJ-4250 from 1997 and I am listening through the first song. No clicks or anything resembling clicks on that one. The sound is rather dull though - not really up to this series usual standard....

/Shaft

[DatDere]

My cd copy doesn't sound too great either, pretty muffled.

[BruceH]

My CD sounds acceptable. But there's this annoying flute on some of the tracks...

[Kyo]

  mikeweil said:

Good luck with the returning procedure!

Thanks! I hope I'll hear back from the store (an amazon marketplace seller) soon.

Oh well, it's not like I suffer from lack of new music, quite the opposite actually.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

  BruceH said:

My CD sounds acceptable. But there's this annoying flute on some of the tracks...

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

everybody knows the jody grind was remastered from an lp source, not the original rvg master tape- this is because it was lost or stolen from the capitol temp-controlled archive room or perhaps even earlier during the liberty era. this also happened w/ sweet honey bee. do you think itll ever suface on ebay? how much would u pay for that!

[chris olivarez]

  shaft said:

Hi Guys,

I have the TOCJ-4250 from 1997 and I am listening through the first song. No clicks or anything resembling clicks on that one. The sound is rather dull though - not really up to this series usual standard....

/Shaft

I have the domestic version of this and "dull" seems to be a rather fitting description. Fortunately the musicians are anything but dull.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

I don't know specifically about "The Jody Grind", but the Japanese master tape of "Sweet Honey Bee" is identical to the US master, clicks and all. When BN decided to do "Sweet Honey Bee" in the US RVG series, I told Cuscuna he had to get the Japanese master because everyone said it had no clicks. Maybe it wasn't a needle drop?

Well, according to Cuscuna, whoever did the mastering in Japan for their CD releases cleaned up the clicks. They were there. I assume this would be the same for "The Jody Grind".

FWIW, the needle drops are in the BN vaults and apprently have been for decades. I believe the Japanese masters were created in the late 70s-early 80s. If the Japanese dupes have the clicks, the switch had already been made.

Later,

Kevin

Edited March 4, 2007 by Kevin Bresnahan

[sidewinder]

Interesting. My 'domestic' CD from the late 80s certainly sounds a bit one dimensional and with noticeable distortion during some of the horn unison passages. The mono Liberty LP sounds 'OK' - although to be honest I don't think this was ever one of RVGs greater efforts.

[Kyo]

  sidewinder said:

Interesting. My 'domestic' CD from the late 80s certainly sounds a bit one dimensional and with noticeable distortion during some of the horn unison passages.

Yeah, I noticed the distortion as well.

Edited March 4, 2007 by Kyo

[mikeweil]

  Kevin Bresnahan said:

I don't know specifically about "The Jody Grind", but the Japanese master tape of "Sweet Honey Bee" is identical to the US master, clicks and all. When BN decided to do "Sweet Honey Bee" in the US RVG series, I told Cuscuna he had to get the Japanese master because everyone said it had no clicks. Maybe it wasn't a needle drop?

Well, according to Cuscuna, whoever did the mastering in Japan for their CD releases cleaned up the clicks. They were there. I assume this would be the same for "The Jody Grind".

FWIW, the needle drops are in the BN vaults and apprently have been for decades. I believe the Japanese masters were created in the late 70s-early 80s. If the Japanese dupes have the clicks, the switch had already been made.

Later,

Kevin

Thanks for the info - do you know about other Blue Notes that had to be dubbed from LP for the CD reissues?