Dan Gould Posted August 31, 2003 Author Report Posted August 31, 2003 Jim R, all I can say is, I'm pleased that the elements of my guesses for #2 and #9 were accurate, as skimpy as they were. And knowing that I've only recently even heard the principles of track 9, I don't feel bad at all. One more question I'll propose to the panel-I realize that this is not a "personally administered" test, but is it supposed to be "open book"? I didn't think we were supposed to deeply investigate and audition tracks to figure things out, (and I don't know if everyone is doing this) and post our impressions/guesses. Not saying its the wrong thing, just not the approach I thought we were taking. On second thought, what the hell do I know? Do what you want! Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 (edited) Good idea, R.T. #2... Click #4... Click #9... Click See, this is a great example. I haven't given enough of a list to these tracks, and I am successfully resisting the urge to click on the links. If you know what something is, especially if you know (for sure) that you're right... ...then providing links like this is the way to go (at least so early in the game). Edited August 31, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote
Jim R Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 Jim R, all I can say is, I'm pleased that the elements of my guesses for #2 and #9 were accurate, as skimpy as they were. And knowing that I've only recently even heard the principles of track 9, I don't feel bad at all. One more question I'll propose to the panel-I realize that this is not a "personally administered" test, but is it supposed to be "open book"? I didn't think we were supposed to deeply investigate and audition tracks to figure things out, (and I don't know if everyone is doing this) and post our impressions/guesses. Not saying its the wrong thing, just not the approach I thought we were taking. On second thought, what the hell do I know? Do what you want! Hey Dan- I think that website was partially incorrect- #9 was actually recorded in '68 or '69, not '73, so... As far as the "open book" question, I think it's up to each individual. I like to try to figure things out initially without turning to my collection for help, but at some point I'm going to give in and use what's at my disposal (even Google). It still takes some knowledge and experience to narrow things down, so I don't see it as cheating. Quote
Jim Dye Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 Track #4 - Listen to the saxophone solo between about 3:19 and 3:40. That was a dead giveaway for me. Although I know the melody, I can't think of the name of the song! Damn, Damn, Damn! I know it, but not this arrangement, which is GREAT btw... Guess I'll have to follow the link above. Quote
JSngry Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 Yeah, I for one take these Blindfold Tests "seriously", on a strictly personal level. I LIKE running ideas through my head until something clicks, and then trying to extrapolate from that. But I like crossword puzzles and the like too, and this is just another way to put those tendencies into play. The listening group we had here w/Jie Millazo, Shawn Dudley, and Andrew Griffith regularly featured blindfold tests, and it was fun to both squirm and to cause squirming. Kind of a game, but also a good intellectual exercise too, bringing all one's non-playing musical resources to the fore and keeping them sharp. Not everybody takes music THAT seriously though, and for that, they should be thankful! Bottom line for me - everybody's going to have their own way of approaching this, and if I know exactly what something is, I don't want to spoil it for those who like to do a bit of sleuthing. I'd be a little bummed if somebody spilled the beans too soon on something I felt that I almost had figured out, so that's where I'm coming from. There's fun to be had any way you play! Quote
JSngry Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 Although I know the melody, I can't think of the name of the song! Damn, Damn, Damn! I know it, but not this arrangement, which is GREAT btw... . Perhaps you've heard Dolphy's version? Or Ira Sullivan's? Quote
Jim R Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 Okay, I wouldn't have gotten this without the help of one of JS's comments above, so he gets most of the credit. I used the Ellington quote at the beginning as a clue, and did a little web hunting, and... viola... (I'm still not 100% sure of the track name, but that's because of the common labeling errors on websites listing real audio clips). #6... Click #'s 5 and 11 are REALLY starting to BUG me. Quote
Dan Gould Posted August 31, 2003 Author Report Posted August 31, 2003 Okay, I wouldn't have gotten this without the help of one of JS's comments above, so he gets most of the credit. I used the Ellington quote at the beginning as a clue, and did a little web hunting, and... viola... (I'm still not 100% sure of the track name, but that's because of the common labeling errors on websites listing real audio clips). #6... Click #'s 5 and 11 are REALLY starting to BUG me. Well, another guy I've never actually listened to, so no dishonor in not recognizing him. Quote
Dan Gould Posted August 31, 2003 Author Report Posted August 31, 2003 Track #4 - Listen to the saxophone solo between about 3:19 and 3:40. That was a dead giveaway for me. Although I know the melody, I can't think of the name of the song! Damn, Damn, Damn! I know it, but not this arrangement, which is GREAT btw... Guess I'll have to follow the link above. Yeah, now that you point it out, it is pretty obvious. But the thing is, as styles get distilled, originators can sometimes be obscured, at least in our ears. And if a pro like Ernie Watts can misidentify Hawkins for Pres, there's no dishonor in missing that BIG clue (was it Watts that Jim said really screwed up on a DB test? Think so ...) Quote
JSngry Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 (edited) Okay, I wouldn't have gotten this without the help of one of JS's comments above, so he gets most of the credit. I used the Ellington quote at the beginning as a clue, and did a little web hunting, and... viola... (I'm still not 100% sure of the track name, but that's because of the common labeling errors on websites listing real audio clips). #6... Click Damn. I've GOT that side! Haven't had it long enough for it to "sink in", though. Glad it's sunk in enough to KINDA be a reference point, if only a secondary one. Edited August 31, 2003 by JSngry Quote
Jim R Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 The thing about #4 is, even if you DID recognize the soloists right away, you could still very easily (and justifiably) be stumped as to what it was... right? BTW, I don't think we're likely to see much going on in this little game that's going to merit using the term "dishonor" with regard to someone's inability to ID something... unless of course somebody takes a track from Quartet Out, and Jim fails to recognize it. Quote
Dan Gould Posted August 31, 2003 Author Report Posted August 31, 2003 I hate to say it, but I've thought some more about the way we're going about this. Not only is it an open book test, but talking is allowed, too! I think Tony's lost control of the classroom! And the way things are going, by the time Tony is ready to reveal, people will have figured it all out amongst ourselves (well, I've contributed as much as I can). Guess what I'm saying is, is it necessary to take this as a challenge and to use every resource available, including internet audio clips, to figure it out? When Jim gets together with Andrew and Shawn-do you give the music to take home or do you play it and try to figure it out, right then, and if you don't get it, you don't get it? Personally, I'd prefer to hear initial guesses and comments, followed by Tony's answers, followed by further discussion. But that's only my two cents worth. Quote
JSngry Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 When Jim gets together with Andrew and Shawn-do you give the music to take home or do you play it and try to figure it out, right then, and if you don't get it, you don't get it? Right then and there, but it's cool if somebody asks to hsve either the whole tune or certain passages replayed any number of times if it's something they think they SHOULD know, but can't put their finger on. In that spirit, I'm getting nervous about my Wardell call. Can't find any online samples of his that match. I oughta know who this cat is, and I'm gonna feel like an idiot if I get it wrong, unless it's some lessser-known guy who copped a lot of stuff from Wardell. Quote
Jazzmoose Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 Well, here's the way I'm approaching it: I just sit there listening and taking notes, then post my initial reactions. But then that's the best way for me to get out of this what I want to get out of it: exposure to new stuff with out preconceptions and more jazz education. I don't expect to get anything right, although Jim's clues to #4 embarrassed the hell out of me! I'm still waiting to see some speculation on selection 3, my favorite on the disc, though... Quote
Jim R Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 is it necessary to take this as a challenge and to use every resource available, including internet audio clips, to figure it out? Dan, here's my 2 cents. Obviously this is working differently from the original (Downbeat, interview, time limit, etc) concept, but that's because this is a different situation. It's a process, the way we're going about it. Needless to say, we're a lot more likely to be stumped initially (first spin, first post). In that sense, we can all admit to our limitations (akin to someone being stumped, with nowhere to go, in an interview situation) in terms of answering these questions "on the spot". However, I happen to enjoy the challenge of brainstorming/searching/sleuthing/etc., even if it means using recordings as an aid, and trying to reach the goal before Tony raises the curtain. BTW, I really don't know if we can figure them ALL out, even by helping each other... Quote
Dan Gould Posted August 31, 2003 Author Report Posted August 31, 2003 Oh, I figured you were enjoying the sleuthing! You forget that Rooster's gonna come in and have the answers for all that we seek. Quote
Jim R Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 Oh, I figured you were enjoying the sleuthing! You forget that Rooster's gonna come in and have the answers for all that we seek. You know, that's still puzzling me. Could RT have paid Tony off? Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 (edited) Oh, I figured you were enjoying the sleuthing! You forget that Rooster's gonna come in and have the answers for all that we seek. Oh, yeah... Uh, that's right!!! ( I almost forgot about this myself!!!! ) Edited August 31, 2003 by Rooster_Ties Quote
JSngry Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 #3 is REALLY bugging me. Now I'm not sure that it's Wardell... WHOEVER it is, it's somebody who was playing bebop when it was still new. I seriously doubt that this is an early hardbopper (my initial Foster pick notwithstanding) or anybody later, and that goes for the entire group. The pianist is deep into a Bud/Elmo trip w/just a tinge of Monk, and the drummer could be Roy Haynes, maybe Klook, but probably not Max. But it's the tenor player who's eating my lunch. I KNOW this sound! I'm loathe to guess early Jimmy Heath, but it could be, becasue after Wardell, you got Moody, Jug, & Dex as the "usual suspects", and of's not any of them, and Heath fits the bill, although I've not heard but just a little of his early tenor work. If this turns out to be something recorded after, say, 1954 or so, by somebody who was just breaking into the scene, I'll be shocked. It MIGHT have been recorded after that, but only by "survivors". And if it's anybody who wasn't there for the real bop deal, then it's a DAMN good forgery. Quote
Dan Gould Posted August 31, 2003 Author Report Posted August 31, 2003 Well, now I am reconsidering some of my choices, having not realized how people would really try their darndest to figure out the tunes. I had in mind a performance of an easily identifiable pop song. But I think I am going to have to replace it for the simple fact that just looking the song up on AMG will *instantly* reveal who the musician is, and what's the point of that? I thought the tune was a good choice-there's a nice arrangement and good solos, but I now realize there's no challenge to this tune. I have other tunes in mind that are also pretty familiar, but those are OK. I mean, with 180 performances of "Watermelon Man" its probably a good shot that people won't be using AMG to figure it out. On the other hand ... who knows? But again, nice performance, but do I leave it in or pick something not so obvious or easy to figure out with outside help? Quote
JSngry Posted August 31, 2003 Report Posted August 31, 2003 Give'em what you want them to hear! Quote
Jim Dye Posted September 1, 2003 Report Posted September 1, 2003 Perhaps you've heard Dolphy's version? Or Ira Sullivan's? Dolphy! Of course! That's definitely how I know it (the tune, not this version). Excellent clue, Jim. Quote
Dan Gould Posted September 1, 2003 Author Report Posted September 1, 2003 Give'em what you want them to hear! Of course, but there's lots more where that came from, so why make it especially easy? In short, my set list has become decidedly unsettled. Quote
Jim R Posted September 1, 2003 Report Posted September 1, 2003 #3 is REALLY bugging me. Now I'm not sure that it's Wardell... WHOEVER it is, it's somebody who was playing bebop when it was still new. I seriously doubt that this is an early hardbopper (my initial Foster pick notwithstanding) or anybody later, and that goes for the entire group. The pianist is deep into a Bud/Elmo trip w/just a tinge of Monk, and the drummer could be Roy Haynes, maybe Klook, but probably not Max. But it's the tenor player who's eating my lunch. I KNOW this sound! I'm loathe to guess early Jimmy Heath, but it could be, becasue after Wardell, you got Moody, Jug, & Dex as the "usual suspects", and of's not any of them, and Heath fits the bill, although I've not heard but just a little of his early tenor work. If this turns out to be something recorded after, say, 1954 or so, by somebody who was just breaking into the scene, I'll be shocked. It MIGHT have been recorded after that, but only by "survivors". And if it's anybody who wasn't there for the real bop deal, then it's a DAMN good forgery. This has been bugging me all afternoon. This track (and the tenor player) sounds familiar, but I can't seem to come up with any other ideas. One thing I'm wondering is whether the tenor player was actually the leader of the session. For example, if it's Jimmy Heath, he didn't record as a leader until 1960, and I'm inclined to agree that this was recorded in the 50's. Heath recorded several times in 1953 as a sideman- with Miles, JJ, and Kenny Dorham... but I can't recall any tenor (quartet) features from those dates. The other names Jim has mentioned haven't led me anywhere either, although I don't go very deep with Wardell, for example. So far we're a pretty small group here, eh? I hope more folks will weigh in soon... Quote
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