The Baseball Thread 2007

[Dan Gould]

Does anyone think the layoff hurt the Rockies ?

Even the Rockies are admitting as much.

Funny, I think if they hadn't run into a pitcher at least as hot as they "were", they wouldn't be saying the layoff hurt, they'd be saying how hot they still are.

If Schilling holds them to five runs or less, it will take a minor miracle for them to get their hoped-for split at Fenway, and that four or five game prediction by It Could Be You will be exactly right, only he got the team wrong.

[MartyJazz]

Does anyone think the layoff hurt the Rockies ?

Even the Rockies are admitting as much.

Funny, I think if they hadn't run into a pitcher at least as hot as they "were", they wouldn't be saying the layoff hurt, they'd be saying how hot they still are.

If Schilling holds them to five runs or less, it will take a minor miracle for them to get their hoped-for split at Fenway, and that four or five game prediction by It Could Be You will be exactly right, only he got the team wrong.

According to what I read, Ubaldo Jiminez can really throw the hard stuff, so I wouldn't be so sure that the Rockies can't win if they score 5 or less tonight. If he can somehow match a Beckett performance, a low scoring win is possible.

[zen archer]

It's more than the layoff , last night on the postgame show Eck said how McCarver called

Francis a high ball pitcher . Eck said your not gonna get the job done being a high ball pitcher throwing

88 on your fast ball. Not to the Sox , and he also said francis has only a decent curve.

[Dan Gould]

Does anyone think the layoff hurt the Rockies ?

Even the Rockies are admitting as much.

Funny, I think if they hadn't run into a pitcher at least as hot as they "were", they wouldn't be saying the layoff hurt, they'd be saying how hot they still are.

If Schilling holds them to five runs or less, it will take a minor miracle for them to get their hoped-for split at Fenway, and that four or five game prediction by It Could Be You will be exactly right, only he got the team wrong.

According to what I read, Ubaldo Jiminez can really throw the hard stuff, so I wouldn't be so sure that the Rockies can't win if they score 5 or less tonight. If he can somehow match a Beckett performance, a low scoring win is possible.

He also has a nasty curveball he throws in the low 70s.

The reason I am only mildly concerned is that his ERA on the road is horrible (5+) and he also has the worst control of any Rocky starter (4+ walks per 9 IP). Anything can happen, and maybe he comes up big, but to me, a rookie going into a WS game 2 on the road with those stats, a Carmona-like implosion has to be more likely than a shut-down type game.

We'll see.

Marty, I trust you are rooting for the AL team, right?

[MartyJazz]

(snip)

Marty, I trust you are rooting for the AL team, right?

Yep, I can't help myself. I've been into baseball a very, very long time and can still painfully recall when the NL had the upper hand, in terms of stars (Mays, Aaron, Clemente, Rose, Gibson, Koufax, Bench, Marichal, and on and on and on), all star game wins, etc. So I've always rooted for the AL whenever the Yanks failed to cop the pennant and, alas, still continue to do so. I guess I'm just like Rudy (in this one respect only ).

My wife however, is rooting for the Rockies, i.e., the underdog, which is what I would normally do, all things being equal.

I'm pretty sure that since you come from a later era and a headset that's really anti-Yankee, you'd be rooting for the NL if the Yanks were in the Series.

Edited October 25, 2007 by MartyJazz

[Tim McG]

GoodSpeak has a particular distaste for Tavarez.

Sure, after he flipped off the SF fans at a game then called them all "faggots" Tavarez' stock went straight into the dumper.

Besides, he has a history of doing this sort of thing, Noj.

To wit:

Tavarez' Tantrums

He's a jackass and doesn't deserve the privledge of playing in a WS game.

Edited October 25, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

Good heavens, 13-1 Sox after 5! So much for an exciting Series.

A little early for these types of dire predictions, doncha think?

[BERIGAN]

Good heavens, 13-1 Sox after 5! So much for an exciting Series.

A little early for these types of dire predictions, doncha think?

Good point, in that they mentioned a painful memory for braves fans on espn last night. In 1996, we faced the Yankees, and won 12-1 in game one, and won game 2, 4-0....In Yankee stadium!!! So, clearly, the Braves won their 2nd straight WS, right? No, Yankees won 3 straight in Atlanta, and won game 6 back in Yankee stadium...so, one never knows, does one?????

Ubaldo Jiminez has one of the weirdest motions, doesn't look like 97-99 MPH pitches should be coming out of it. He got in a lot of trouble in one game in the NLCS walking folks, but kept blowing the ball past folks to get out of the trouble. Will he be able to blow it by the sox hitters though???

[Tim McG]

Good heavens, 13-1 Sox after 5! So much for an exciting Series.

A little early for these types of dire predictions, doncha think?

Good point, in that they mentioned a painful memory for braves fans on espn last night. In 1996, we faced the Yankees, and won 12-1 in game one, and won game 2, 4-0....In Yankee stadium!!! So, clearly, the Braves won their 2nd straight WS, right? No, Yankees won 3 straight in Atlanta, and won game 6 back in Yankee stadium...so, one never knows, does one?????

Exactly.

The Rockies aren't finished just yet.

As I said before, the Rocks have the hitting and Sox have the pitching. I think this will be going at least six games.

[Dan Gould]

I don't think there is any question this is a must-win game for the Rockies. With Fogg pitching Game 3 and another mediocrity starting Game 4 in his first start since August, the Rockies have to have their rookie fireballer come up huge while the bats need to knock Schilling around.

Not saying its impossible but I'll be mighty impressed if this youngster comes up bigger at Fenway than Sabathia or Carmona did.

If the Red Sox bats stay hot, Beckett may not even have to pitch again.

[Patrick]

Park effects and a DH may explain small parts of it (and it's a tiny sample of games), but for the 2007 postseason, it looks like the Red Sox have the pitching AND the hitting. Red Sox/Beckett had a dominant game 1 win against Tribe in a series that went 7, after Tribe took game 2 at Fenway. I agree that this is pretty much must-win territory for Rockies.

[ejp626]

Didn't watch the game, but it sounds like it was a classic, with both pitchers doing a great job but with Schilling getting the edge and a bit more support from his team. It does look pretty dire for the Rockies.

[MartyJazz]

Didn't watch the game, but it sounds like it was a classic, with both pitchers doing a great job but with Schilling getting the edge and a bit more support from his team. It does look pretty dire for the Rockies.

Well, it will be interesting to see what the Sox due in the NL park without the DH. It may be sacrilege but I think Big Papi should sit and Youkelis should play. KY is hitting very well and he's very good defensively. In a tight game, Ortiz can be then available to pinch hit, a real plus considering what a great clutch hitter he is. Anyway one looks at it, the Rockies had a nice run but an 8 day layoff combined with their youth and the fact that they're facing the best the AL has to offer has IMO done them in.

[Dan Gould]

Was it just me or did it seem like the home plate umpire was giving about three inches in every direction on the strike zone? I swear, if Dice-K had been pitching he might have ended up with 10 Ks or more with that ump.

Very tense game but it really seems as though the Rockie bats went to sleep after the layoff - Helton, Hawpe, Atkins, most of them just aren't hitting a lick. If that doesn't change in Denver, I can't see how this is coming back to Boston. Even with the shorter lineup in the NL park, Fogg and his 5 ERA should get hammered.

I am inclined to agree with Marty that Ortiz should sit. Keep the defense strong on the corners, and Papi's knee trouble makes it easier to justify keeping him off the field. I think I'd drop Youkilis into the three spot and move Ellsbury to the two-hole.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

Play of the game for me was Papelbon's pick on Holiday to seal it all. Looked like some serious tension about unfold. The wife woke up the neighborhood with that one.

[Dan Gould]

Couple of other observations:

Right before that critical pickoff, I watched Holliday start to take his lead and thought to myself "Paps never pays attention to runners - he figures if the hitter can't put it in play, it won't matter" and then BOOM - Holliday is caught in the middle of a step and is out by a mile.

Despite his continued postseason success, I still say that Theo should tell big Curt "thanks for the memories" and let him go. I just can't see him competing against the AL East with that stuff when he is 41. Schilling has got to go to the NL to finish up his career - I'd say the Phillies but his veteran presence might be nullified by way too many home runs in that little park. San Diego would actually be a great place because of how big the outfield is, and actually San Diego would have another great benefit: Greg Maddux. Schilling wants to go somewhere to mentor young pitchers, the fact is that with his diminished velocity, he could use some mentoring himself from one of the greatest pitchers whose fastball could never break a pane of glass. With some help from Maddux and that big outfield, Schilling could even manage to pitch a couple more years. The Mets might be another potential landing spot but I think that would absolutely kill Pedro if twice in five years he had to watch Schilling be brought in as the "missing piece" of a championship team. Pedro hated him then and Schilling getting the spotlight made it easier for Pedro to leave for a team where he'd be the undisputed ace. So if Minaya cares what his little prima donna wants, he won't go after Curt.

As for the question of who sits in Denver, it looks like Tito is leaning strongly towards keeping Lowell and Papi in the lineup and sitting Youk, who only leads all of baseball this month in hits and runs and is tied for the lead in home runs. Yet Tito was quoted as saying that playing Youk at third means playing two guys "out of position" and that Papi would get rested only if his knee demands it. Mark me down as less than pleased.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I doubt Curt's going anywhere except to Maynard

[Quincy]

I think in Game 3 with CO throwing a righty you go ahead and start Oritz, just to see how (badly) he handles playing 1st. You can get him out of there (perhaps on a double switch) or replace straight up as needed. And that way you have better defense the rest of the way. It's a tough call, would you rather have him get in 2 at bats early in the game or just 1 at bat late. The way the Red Sox offense is I'd be inclined to try to blow 'em out early with Ortiz, get him out by the 5th give or take an inning. And Ortiz with a bad knee is still a much more dangerous bat vs. RHP than Youkilis on a hot streak (who went 0 for 3 last night btw.) The results of Game 3 determine whether to do it again for Game 4. I'd be tempted to sit Ortiz on Game 5 vs. the lefty and use him like Kirk Gibson, Game 1 1988.

[Tim McG]

Good game last night, I thought.

The BoSox are hitting on all cylinders right now, but we see what happens in Coors Feild.

Rockies have been known to launch, oh....one or two come-backs there.

[Dan Gould]

The Globe is reporting that Ortiz and Lowell will get the nod Saturday night. In a sense Youk might be more dangerous off the bench than Papi for the simple fact that his appearance won't necessarily mean the immediate entry of the best lefty the Rockies have. In other words, they won't necessarily make a pitching change to face Youk whereas they'll be hell bent on keeping Ortiz from being a difference maker.

With a righty on the mound in games three and four, I think it makes sense to start with Ortiz and see what his bat produces and if his defense hurts. When they get the lead I wouldn't be surprised to see Youk in for defensive purposes sooner, like the seventh or no later than the eighth rather than waiting til the ninth.

In related news, Ellsbury will lead off and Pedroia will bat second. That works better for me than moving Drew out of his suddenly productive spot at 6 or 7, though Ellsbury hasn't really hit much so far in this series.

[zen archer]

Big win tonight for the SOX ....One More !......anyone still watching ?

[zen archer]

The Globe is reporting that Ortiz and Lowell will get the nod Saturday night. In a sense Youk might be more dangerous off the bench than Papi for the simple fact that his appearance won't necessarily mean the immediate entry of the best lefty the Rockies have. In other words, they won't necessarily make a pitching change to face Youk whereas they'll be hell bent on keeping Ortiz from being a difference maker.

With a righty on the mound in games three and four, I think it makes sense to start with Ortiz and see what his bat produces and if his defense hurts. When they get the lead I wouldn't be surprised to see Youk in for defensive purposes sooner, like the seventh or no later than the eighth rather than waiting til the ninth.

In related news, Ellsbury will lead off and Pedroia will bat second. That works better for me than moving Drew out of his suddenly productive spot at 6 or 7, though Ellsbury hasn't really hit much so far in this series.

BIG night for Ellsbury ties a Rookie record with 4 hits in the world series. Things just seem to happen

for this kid .

Edited October 28, 2007 by zen archer

[GregK]

this has to be the worst world series ever. how did the rockies even make it into the playoffs?? This one is purely the result of the wild card, letting mediocre teams on a hot streak into the playoffs, only to get a dull, lopsided world series.

[MartyJazz]

this has to be the worst world series ever. how did the rockies even make it into the playoffs?? This one is purely the result of the wild card, letting mediocre teams on a hot streak into the playoffs, only to get a dull, lopsided world series.

The last 7 game series was in 2002 (Angels-Giants) and the last 6 game series occurred the following year (Marlins-Yanks). Since then, they've all been rather one sided and dull, this one arguably the most uncompetitive thus far.

[Dan Gould]

Well, fwiw, this series has had two games that ended up being very very very tense and the only WS game in 2004 that even came close was Game 1. So despite the result, I'd say this is a far more competitive Series than that one was.

And I don't understand the complaint about hot teams/wild cards. Sometimes those teams parlay it all the way to a championship, like the Marlins in 2003. If anything is lacking, its the front-end of the Rockies rotation; otherwise they have a deep offense that just happened to be cooled off by superior pitching.