The Baseball Thread 2007

[catesta]

Now...., that was a baseball game.

[Matthew]

I don't think we'll be seeing Gagne for the rest of the series -- he's in free fall mode right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see it go back to Boston with Cleveland ahead 3-2.

[BERIGAN]

Dan, et al....I don't know what to say...but...I will say stuff anyway! Until the top of the 11th, that was one of the best playoff games I have seen! I was going to say last night after the Sox just ground out AB after AB(2 strikes on me, perfect...I'll foul off 2 and watch 4 just miss) that there was no way the Rockies would have a chance...just because starters don't seem to be able to go more than 4-5 innings against that type of gameplan being (nearly) perfectly executed. Dan, you might gripe about guys swinging 3-1, but they got the count in their favor, and I am sure it looks like a fastball out of his hand, hell they showed a pitch Carmona threw for a strike out, A 98 MPH SINKER!!! So, for them to knock him out early after a complete game against the Yanks, that was huge.

I thought there was no way Cleveland could win that game, the later in the game the score was tied. Not much fun for you all, but fun for a fan of the game to be so completely wrong about the way a game is going to end.

My other thought about the Sox....IF they don't win in this round...at some point Sox fans are going to have to look in the mirror and blame themselves as well as the players. There is too much pressure playing there! Yeah, I know, if you can't handle pressure than fuck you...well is Edgar Renteria a choker? Guy had a game winning hit in the WS(Won the world series with that hit in fact) all the sudden, can't field in Fenway, booed out of town. A manager other than Francona would have likely buried Pedroia in AAA after his slow start....why did Julio Lugo have his worst year in the majors? I'm surprised he wasn't killed by an enraged fan earlier this year. Why did JD Drew have such a bad year...well, never mind him And now Gagne! Guy can(Well could) handle pressure. Set an all time record for saves in a row. Lots of guys have good stuff, but can't hack closing. Even though he doesn't have the fastball of a few years ago, he still was good enough to close. I saw him just destroy the Red Sox earlier this year, made Big Poppy look silly, how often does that happen? Now??? He probably has police protection, and won't pitch again no matter what. All from a single and a walk. Wonder if he could have gotten out of the inning giving up less than 7 runs? We will never know, couldn't risk it at home. If he gave up one run, and the Sox didn't come back, Francona would be fired for being such a fool to leave him in!

You know what it's like? It's like my getting a date with Jessica Biel( Quite the likely scenario) and telling her, I just bought her the most expensive flower in the world just for her, then taking her to the fanciest restaurant in town, getting down on bended knee, proposing to her, and telling her I get to name the first two kids, but she can name the rest! She runs away! Bitch! If you can't handle the pressure, don't date the C man!!!

Red Sox nation still acts like it didn't win the Series finally! Or that it will never get another chance to even get in the playoffs. They are getting to be like the Yankees sad to say. If you don't win the WS, it's a worthless year. Perhaps pressure is why a team like the Yankees aren't getting past the first round either.

[Quincy]

And his "out" pitch -why the fuck does anyone swing? That pitch he goes to about 80% of the time with two strikes, it breaks down and in to righties and is never in the strike zone.

But that's the beauty of the pitch. When you're at the plate it looks like it's going to be in your wheelhouse. The break comes at the very end, and boy does it break! And the thing is, if you decide to take the pitch you run the high risk of looking just as stupid if instead the pitcher throws a regular ole fastball for a strike.

Steve Carlton won 300+ games by throwing a slider that was just outside of the strike zone. It wasn't until he lost fastball velocity that batters finally laid off it.

It's a much easier game from the couch than in the batter's box.

[Dan Gould]

And his "out" pitch -why the fuck does anyone swing? That pitch he goes to about 80% of the time with two strikes, it breaks down and in to righties and is never in the strike zone.

But that's the beauty of the pitch. When you're at the plate it looks like it's going to be in your wheelhouse. The break comes at the very end, and boy does it break! And the thing is, if you decide to take the pitch you run the high risk of looking just as stupid if instead the pitcher throws a regular ole fastball for a strike.

Steve Carlton won 300+ games by throwing a slider that was just outside of the strike zone. It wasn't until he lost fastball velocity that batters finally laid off it.

It's a much easier game from the couch than in the batter's box.

Yes, I understand that it looks like a fastball in your wheelhouse. But the fact is that it breaks out of the strike zone, and he throws the pitch probably 80% of the time when there are two strikes. My point, and the reasoning behind it, remains the same: take pitches until he proves he can throw it for strikes. Yes, occasionally he throws the four seamer and it doesn't break and you look stupid. Fine. A few called strikeouts doesn't end the game. In fact, its better than grounding into a double play, whether a K is swinging or looking. But if you've watched the video, you have to know that he's throwing this pitch out of the strike zone. That means you have to be willing to lay off it, whatever it "looks" like. Its not rocket science, and intelligent hitters adjust their strategy based on the pitcher they are facing and their knowledge of his patterns.

Oh and two, OK, its tougher to lay off the pitch. But that's not how he got his strikeouts or his rally killing ground outs. He was on the edge of being knocked around because of his wildness and an overeagerness to swing got him off the hook, and the vast majority came with three balls. Three ball counts require extra patience, IMO, because of his over-reliance on that pitch.

Watch and see - I will bet that the Sox will be even more willing to take pitches the next game he starts. If he's throwing all his pitches for strikes, fine - we'll be up shit's creek sans paddle.

[Quincy]

A few called strikeouts doesn't end the game. In fact, its better than grounding into a double play, whether a K is swinging or looking.

True, although if you take strike 3 with runners on, you're likely to get called a sissy like ARod or something like that in the press.

Watch and see - I will bet that the Sox will be even more willing to take pitches the next game he starts. If he's throwing all his pitches for strikes, fine - we'll be up shit's creek sans paddle.

The other tactic that's sometimes used on sinkerball pitchers is to step up in the box, the thinking being that you'll hit it before it breaks. The counter attack is to throw fastballs and bust the hitter.

Though not rocket science, it's easier said than done for hitters facing a guy with a great sinker. How often do your hear "he's thinking too much at the plate." Think too much it takes away the hitter's aggressiveness, don't think enough and you have the problem you describe.

[Dan Gould]

I thought only A-Rod gets reamed for "thinking too much" - and he definitely is the only one getting reamed for taking called strike three with runners on.

Honestly, I know where you're coming from but it just seems to me to be as logical and obvious as a situation where, 3rd and 6, QB in the shotgun, and he constantly hands off to the RB - you don't blitz the outside linebackers, you look for the run! If they start beating you with that play, then make adjustments, but don't make it easier by beating yourself first.

[Big Al]

I don't think we'll be seeing Gagne for the rest of the series -- he's in free fall mode right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see it go back to Boston with Cleveland ahead 3-2.

Jon Daniels' has got to be feeling pretty good about himself right now..... unless, of course, he's trying to re-sign the guy right now. Which wouldn't surprise me.

[Tim McG]

I don't think we'll be seeing Gagne for the rest of the series -- he's in free fall mode right now.

Yet another victim of steroids abuse.

[BERIGAN]

I don't think we'll be seeing Gagne for the rest of the series -- he's in free fall mode right now.

Yet another victim of steroids abuse.

I assume you have heard those rumors. He still looked huge to me in the texas uniform, not so much in the Sox one. He has had tons of arm problems,(didn't he have back surgery as well?) and doesn't throw 97, 98 anymore.....needs to just show the fastball and go with the change-up and curve. Peter Gammons was talking about him a few years back when he briefly came back with the Dodgers, and showed a hitter looking funny after throwing that Bugs Bunny Change up of his, and said there were people that thought he put a lot of strain on his arm the way he threw that pitch.....

[skeith]

That Tribe victory was sweet and what a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dan Gould]

If you can't beat FUCKING Paul Byrd then you don't deserve to move on.

[Matthew]

If you can't beat FUCKING Paul Byrd then you don't deserve to move on.

Paul Byrd, the Matt Morris of 2007, who would've thunk it?

[Chalupa]

I don't think we'll be seeing Gagne for the rest of the series -- he's in free fall mode right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see it go back to Boston with Cleveland ahead 3-2.

After tonight's game I wouldn't be surprised to see Cleveland close it out at home.

[Dan Gould]

If you can't beat FUCKING Paul Byrd then you don't deserve to move on.

Paul Byrd, the Matt Morris of 2007, who would've thunk it?

Actually that was Jake FUCKING Westbrook, and equally untalented piece of shit. But we're making them look like Cy FUCKING Young, and deserve to have our ass handed to us.

Its really just as well, I find the asshole bandwagon fans both insufferable and extremely boorish, and there would only be more of them if they reach or win the World Series.

[Chalupa]

Watching Borowski tonight reminded of just how close he came to being on the Phillies this season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2680157

Now, why didn't they make Freddy Garcia take a physical before they forked over $10M ?? Huh, Pat?? WTF??

[Matthew]

Got to love that Cleveland bullpen, come in and shut Boston down. Glad now that Seattle didn't go after Matsuzaka, he didn't look that good at all... What's great, if you're a Cleveland fan , is both Byrd and Westbrook come up big in the post season. The specter of Matt Morris hovers over Cleveland, look out!

Edited October 16, 2007 by Matthew

[MartyJazz]

Hey, it's a best of seven. Down 2-1 is not all that terrible especially for a well rounded team like the Sox. This Yankee fan remembers being up 3-0 in the 2005 ALCS. Still rooting for the Tribe, but there's a way to go yet.

[Matthew]

Crazy baseball scheduling, Colorado could be sitting around for a week waiting for the AL series to end. Boy, the NLCS was totally under the radar, again, baseball messes things up as only they know how.

[Matthew]

I forgot to mention one thing from last night: Great clutch hitting there in the 9th JD Drew! Yeah, I know, I know.......

[zen archer]

Westbrook was helped out by the umpire ...Manny took ball 4 and it was called a strike and then

hit into a double play.

[Matthew]

How do you guys & dolls on the East Coast do it? Starting time 8:30 EST! That is crazy and stupid, I'd be in bed by the top of the second.

[Big Al]

The Rockies are damn-near unstoppable. Another sweep! If I was either the Indians or the Sox, I'd be just a little concerned. Whoa!

[Chalupa]

The Rockies are damn-near unstoppable. Another sweep! If I was either the Indians or the Sox, I'd be just a little concerned. Whoa!

The only thing that might cool off the Rockies is a week long layoff. But I don't see anyone beating them the way they are playing right now.

I'd like to see a Cleveland/Colorado WS and I think it will happen. However, I'm wondering if that match up would be a ratings disaster. I would really like to see the Indians win it all. When was the last time they won it, 1945???

[Man with the Golden Arm]

The Rockies are damn-near unstoppable. Another sweep! If I was either the Indians or the Sox, I'd be just a little concerned. Whoa!

The only thing that might cool off the Rockies is a week long layoff. But I don't see anyone beating them the way they are playing right now.

I'd like to see a Cleveland/Colorado WS and I think it will happen. However, I'm wondering if that match up would be a ratings disaster. I would really like to see the Indians win it all. When was the last time they won it, 1945???

'48 I'm pretty certain.

Being a transplant to the north of Boston area who formerly had to deal with them midgie flies on many occasions I can now go either way, but my heart holds for the Tribe. Cleveland needs something to revel in besides looking forward to Art Modells future obit.