The Baseball Thread 2007

[Chuck Nessa]

Strange?

No.

Appropriate?

Yes.

I said "starange" as did you, knucklehead.

[Dan Gould]

As the suspicious among us point out that there is no test for HGH, it turns out that there is no reason to believe that HGH does anything to help you play better:

I seriously cannot believe you said that.

Why? Did you bother to read the article? It states two things as being established facts among those who study these matters:

Steroids help you hit home runs.

HGH doesn't.

The fact that players have conspired to attain HGH has no bearing on whether or not it will help. It only shows how players are driven to try to anything they can get their hands on when the biggest star in the game is well known to be an abuser of these chemicals. After all, Bonds took such drugs as Clomid, a women's infertility drug thought to help a steroid user recover his natural testosterone production, and Modafinil, a narcolepsy drug used as a powerful stimulant. Does a woman's infertility drug help you hit homers? Probably not. Does a narcolepsy drug help you hit homers? Probably not.

Yet the home run "king" used them, and it shouldn't surprise anyone if it turns out that other players used them too.

[Dan Gould]

Dan, the Yankees have the Red Sox' number. It looks to me like they will meet in the playoffs and the Yankees will beat them.

The Yankees will face either the Angels, who are the only team in the majors with a winning record against them in the Torre era and has beaten them in short playoff series twice in this decade, or the Indians. The Yankees swept the Indians but they also managed to avoid CC Sabathia. As a lefty, he's likely to give the Yankees trouble, and with the Indians in strong shape to clinch with some time left, should be slotted so that he gets two shots at the Yankees.

I don't expect them to make it out of the first round in either event.

[Dan Gould]

Congratulations to Patrick and his Tribe on a huge comeback win over the Tigers - three in the eighth to tie, walk-off homer in the 11th to win.

[Patrick]

Yes, extremely exciting at the Jake Monday night. Kenny Rogers was dealing. Paul Byrd was above average/adequate but got done in by errors from Jason Michaels and Jhonny Peralta. Peralta had two blasts, and Casey Blake hit his second walk off HR this week (I think it might be only his second or third HR of the second half). Tribe has now gotten to Zumaya twice since his return. Magic number is down to 7. Tomorrow is "Dollar Dog Night" with Westbrook v. Verlander. Wednesday afternoon is Sabathia v. Robertson. I thought Carmona would get a shot at Detroit, but apparently he'll pitch next in Oakland on Friday.

O's had their chances against NYY tonight. In separate innings Mora and Millar struck out with the bases loaded and two out. While O's have had past success against NY, I think Red Sox Nation will be fortunate if Baltimore gets one in NY. [Remember no Bedard nor Guthrie, nor several bullpen arms (though the latter absences might be a good thing)] At least Daniel Cabrera didn't get tossed...

Now if only the DRays could get a game or two out in LA...

Big Hurt was a big hurt for Boston tonight.

As a non-fan of Bos or NYY, gotta say that that series pretty much lived up to the hype. There's a little crispness in the air, it's getting dark a bit earlier, and you sense that every at bat (or pitch) matters. NYY needed to sweep and they didn't, but they had some success. Both teams demonstrated that the strength in their bullpens is not infallible. Shilling and Clemens pitched comparably well (though Shill was out there longer). Beckett really outpitched Wang on Saturday. Besides the psychological mumbo-jumbo which can be fun to talk about (provided its not in large doses--especially for the rest of us), I call that series basically a push. NYY got two, but they really needed to sweep to do more than get the mojo thang workin'. Exciting stretch run.

And yes, GO CUBS!

Now I gotta stay up til midnight to see the Tribe highlights on Baseball Tonight.

[jlhoots]

Go Cubs.

Yep

I suppose I'm the only one here rooting for the Brewers.

We'll see.

Only 1 game apart (and same number of losses).

Both won again tonight.

[Chalupa]

Man. The Phils were up 11-0 midway through the 6th tonight and almost gave it away. They finally won 13-11. It should never have been that close. Sheesh.

[ghost of miles]

Dan, you're a swell guy, an online friend, and a real mensch... and yer boys have still probably got a lock on the division... but I gotta say I'm enjoying seein' 'em sweat to get there!

NY Yankees 12, Baltimore 0

By JAY COHEN, AP Sports Writer

September 18, 2007

AP - Sep 18, 9:52 pm EDT

NEW YORK (AP) -- Mike Mussina and Doug Mientkiewicz pulled the Yankees closer to first-place Boston and boosted their chances to make New York's potential playoff roster.

Mussina limited Baltimore to three singles over seven innings, Mientkiewicz hit a three-run homer and the Yankees beat the Orioles 12-0 Tuesday night.

New York, which has won 11 of 13, closed within 2 1/2 games of the Red Sox in the AL East, the Yankees' smallest division deficit since before play on April 21. They also opened a 4 1/2 -game lead over Detroit in the wild-card race.

The Yankee Stadium crowd roared when Boston's 4-3 loss at Toronto was posted on the scoreboard in the bottom of the eighth inning. By then, New York had scored in double digits for fourth time this month and 21st time this season.

Mientkiewicz also had an RBI single, and Melky Cabrera and Hideki Matsui drove in three runs apiece for the Yankees, closing in on their 13th straight playoff appearance. Derek Jeter added three hits.

Ramon Hernandez singled twice and Miguel Tejada reached on an infield dribbler in the seventh for Baltimore's only hits off Mussina, who improved to 10-6 against his former team. He allowed only one runner to reach second.

Mussina also helped himself with two nice defensive plays. The six-time Gold Glove winner bounded off the mound to grab Tike Redman's grounder in the first inning and start a 1-6-3 double play. He knocked down Nick Markakis' hard comebacker in the seventh and threw him out at first.

Tejada reached after Markakis was retired and went to second on Kevin Millar's grounder back to Mussina. With the Yankee Stadium crowd yelling "Mooose," the right-hander threw a called third strike past Aubrey Huff to end the inning.

Mussina (10-10) was dropped from the rotation in late August after allowing 19 earned runs over 9 2-3 innings in three straight losses. He made one relief appearance after that, his first ever in a regular-season game.

Mussina struck out six, walked one and has thrown 12 2-3 scoreless innings over two outings since his starting spot was restored. He has won at least 10 games in an AL-record 16 straight seasons.

Orioles right-hander Jon Leicester matched Mussina through the first three innings but ran into trouble in the fourth. New York batted around and scored six times, getting the type of fortunate bounces that help teams reach the postseason.

Jeter led off with a single to left and Bobby Abreu followed with a liner that glanced off third baseman Melvin Mora's glove and went into left field for a double, putting runners on second and third. Alex Rodriguez struck out but Matsui's hard grounder skipped past first baseman Huff for a two-run double.

One batter later, Robinson Cano grounded a perfectly placed RBI single up the middle and Mientkiewicz followed with a drive to right for his first homer since May 23 against Boston's Curt Schilling.

Mientkiewicz was activated from the disabled list Sept. 1 after missing much of the season with a broken right wrist. He is batting .462 (6-for-13) with six RBIs since he rejoined the club.

Leicester (2-2) allowed six runs and six hits in four innings in his first career appearance against New York.

The Yankees also batted around during their five-run seventh. Mientkiewicz singled in a run and Cabrera drove in two with a base hit, ending a 1-for-29 skid.

Mientkiewicz had four RBIs for the first time since he did it for the Mets on April 21, 2005, at Florida.

Matsui said he hasn't had X-rays or an MRI exam on his ailing knee but that he will at the end of the season. Matsui has no idea whether he will need surgery. ... Orioles RHP Daniel Cabrera dropped his appeal and started serving his six-game suspension for throwing at Boston's Dustin Pedroia this month. Manager Dave Trembley said Cabrera's next start will be Monday against Kansas City. ... San Diego's Greg Maddux (19 seasons) is the only active player with a longer streak of seasons with 10 or more wins, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

I still don't think NY will catch the Bosox, but I'm starting to feel more confident about the wild-card. The Yanks are playing so well right now that I'm a bit worried about a possible crash-and-burn in the playoffs again.

[Tim McG]

Strange?

No.

Appropriate?

Yes.

I said "starange" as did you, knucklehead.

Hey!

That's Mister Knucklehead to you......and smile when you say that.

[Tim McG]

As the suspicious among us point out that there is no test for HGH, it turns out that there is no reason to believe that HGH does anything to help you play better:

I seriously cannot believe you said that.

Why? Did you bother to read the article? It states two things as being established facts among those who study these matters:

Steroids help you hit home runs.

HGH doesn't.

The fact that players have conspired to attain HGH has no bearing on whether or not it will help. It only shows how players are driven to try to anything they can get their hands on when the biggest star in the game is well known to be an abuser of these chemicals. After all, Bonds took such drugs as Clomid, a women's infertility drug thought to help a steroid user recover his natural testosterone production, and Modafinil, a narcolepsy drug used as a powerful stimulant. Does a woman's infertility drug help you hit homers? Probably not. Does a narcolepsy drug help you hit homers? Probably not.

Yet the home run "king" used them, and it shouldn't surprise anyone if it turns out that other players used them too.

I simply cannot believe you said that, Dan.

Mr. Anti-Steriods swings and misses on a strike three count with the bases loaded.

I can die now....I've seen everything.

[Patrick]

Another interesting night so far in MLB.

The pesky Nats take care of Mets again--Phillies tied in StL with a chance to cut NYM division lead to 1.5. SD and Zona both winning their games early. And Milwaukee draws even in the Central with the Cubs again!

Meanwhile in the AL, Gagne blows a 2-1 lead in the 8th at Toronto in a bad way--after retiring the first two, gives up walk, single, walk, walk, double. Should he have faced all of those batters? Yankees take care of the walking dead from Baltimore. They really are the fountain of youth: Moose soaks in the Baltimore lineup and pitches 7 innings, 3 hits, no runs, 1 walk, 6K. Red Sox Nation: expect zero help from the O's.

Tribe beats Detroit for the second night in a row to reduce their magic number to 5. Chicks dig the long ball--Indians score 7 runs all off of Verlander on 6 hits (4HR, 2 Lofton singles), while Detroit has 12 hits (11 singles and 1 double). Jake Westbrook "scattered" those 12 hits (plus 2 walks) over 5 innings and gave up all 4 Tiger runs. Rookie Jensen Lewis then pitched 3 impressive shutout innings (0 hits, 1 hit batter), striking out 4, and got the win. Borowski had a rare 3 up/3 down ninth for his 41st save. Perhaps more importantly, coupled with the Bosox loss, the Tribe (and LAA if they beat TB tonight) are only 1/2 game behind Bos for the best record in the AL (and no games behind in the loss column). Come on DRays...

[Patrick]

I still don't think NY will catch the Bosox, but I'm starting to feel more confident about the wild-card. The Yanks are playing so well right now that I'm a bit worried about a possible crash-and-burn in the playoffs again.

Playoff teams in the AL are set (Bos, Cle, LAA, NYY). It's just a matter of seating now.

[Dan Gould]

I still don't think NY will catch the Bosox, but I'm starting to feel more confident about the wild-card. The Yanks are playing so well right now that I'm a bit worried about a possible crash-and-burn in the playoffs again.

Playoff teams in the AL are set (Bos, Cle, LAA, NYY). It's just a matter of seating now.

That's "seeding" and its not over yet. Red Sox magic number to clinch the wild card is four.

I presume that they can manage to combine their wins with Detroit losses to reach that number. Look for the lame champagne celebration sometime next week.

[Dan Gould]

I still don't think NY will catch the Bosox, but I'm starting to feel more confident about the wild-card.

That makes one of us.

As they so typically do, the Red Sox are in the midst of late season swoon. It came a little late this year but it is here nonetheless. Tito should do an Amex commercial, only the card he would be holding would say WILD CARD:

Do you know me? I manage to blow late season division leads to our hated rivals. That's why I carry one of these: It saves my ass from the firing line.

I am left to remember two important facts:

1) Last year Minnesota made a late, sustained, furious comeback and took the division championship. Where did it get them? Bounced in the ALDS by the West division champs.

2) The Tigers blew the division after dominating it for almost the entire season (and having the best record in the league for most of that time) and where did it get them? The World Series.

BTW - the Red Sox have the best road record in the league. Hopefully we'll face the Angels, who have significant bullpen issues, Lackey can't beat us, Escobar has a 9 ERA in September, and they are barely over .500 on the road.

[jlhoots]

Brewers win on the road.

Cubs lose at home.

Braun should be rookie of the year (IMHO).

Virtual tie for first now, Cubs have one more in loss column.

[Matthew]

It's shocking to see Gagne fall so far down in terms of quality. I was looking up his stats and when he left the Rangers his ERA was 2.16, and now it's all the way up to 4.18, his ERA pitching in Boston is 9.00 (!!!!). I can't think of a tank job this bad, that has hurt a contending team so much, in a long time.

[Patrick]

I still don't think NY will catch the Bosox, but I'm starting to feel more confident about the wild-card. The Yanks are playing so well right now that I'm a bit worried about a possible crash-and-burn in the playoffs again.

Playoff teams in the AL are set (Bos, Cle, LAA, NYY). It's just a matter of seating now.

That's "seeding" and its not over yet. Red Sox magic number to clinch the wild card is four.

I presume that they can manage to combine their wins with Detroit losses to reach that number. Look for the lame champagne celebration sometime next week.

Yes, you are correct. Forgive my homophonic tendencies, at least this one time. Blame it on a late evening post and a little irrational exuberance following an Indians' come-from-behind win against a 17-game winner. For an offense that has been sleepwalking much of the second half, this provides a little more hope against the tough starters in the playoffs (Beckett, Wang, Lackey, Escobar, Dice, etc). And they got a nice contribution from a reliever not named Rafael (Perez or Betancourt). The Indian bullpen may actually have more than 3 arms.

And my usage is not completely incorrect because some additional seating at the Jake is now in play! A month ago the Tribe was 4 behind LAA and 5.5 behind Boston. They were in a dogfight for the division, and unlike pre-ASB, it was looking more and more like the second place finisher was not going to make the playoffs (...and this turns out to be correct). For a young team that plays considerably better at home than on the road (check, for example, the splits on right fielder Franklin Gutierrez), this is huge. ...Though looking at the records now, I see that NY and LA are worse on the road than Cleveland is--I am a bit surprised by this.

Is the Bosox lack of success a total team effort? I don't think so. They've had some tough losses recently. Wakefield threw BP to Frank Thomas (...which he has done before), and as I suggested awhile ago Wake is pretty high variance late in the year. Actually, I'm a bit surprised he has as many wins as he does, but label me a disbeliever. [i guess he pitches deep enough into games that with his 4.7 ERA he gets a lot of decisions, many of them wins given the high quality offense.] Last night it was Gagne and maybe the manager for leaving him out there too long. Could they have left Delcarmen out there to face more than one batter? Who else does Francona have confidence in besides Okajima (who looks like he needs some rest) and Papelbon? Could Timlin have pitched last night? [...I'm not keeping day to day track of bullpen use] I guess it was an attempt to instill some confidence in how Gagne performs in close games, and it obviously backfired. Beckett, Dice, Schilling are pitching fine. Bullpen is still deep, if in need of a little rest. It's not the pitching. And even without Manny, a big (hopefully temporary) loss, it's not the offense either. Will Manny be back tonight before the offday tomorrow? So they've lost a few, and maybe will have to play one more playoff game at LA or Cle. Not a big deal for that veteran squad. Don't let the psycho-mumbo jumbo get to you, and don't roll out the hex nonsense, ...at least not before a few more tough losses.

[Dan Gould]

Patrick,

of course all is forgiven

It is clear to me that Theo, Tito and the Minions have made a decision, and that is that rest is more paramount than winning the division. If winning the division was paramount, Papelbon would have been in before the tying run had scored off of Gag-Me. If winning the division was paramount, they wouldn't be giving three extra days rest to Dice-K. As I understand it, without the adjustments to the rotation, they would get 4 more starts from Schilling and Dice-K but are now only getting two.

Indians may have surprising home/road splits for some players but the results have been pretty positive overall - their record is second to the Sox for away games.

As for these losses, having to play Hinske isn't helping very much, and while Youk was seen throwing yesterday, I would be surprised if he plays before Friday at Tampa. Manny ... no one knows about. He's got to get back in to get his swing back in time for the playoffs, but he can't do it any sooner than is safe because he can easily reinjure it and end his season. If you didn't hear, we have a new, all-time Manny Moment. He actually asked Francona about being sent out on a rehab assignment! Uh, Manny, its September, the minor league season is over and all the Sox teams are out of the playoffs. No instructional league til next year, so uh, no, there's no place to send you.

What a maroon.

Last comment for the Yankee fans, in line with my earlier observation about how the AL Central finished last season and what happened in the playoffs. Last time the Yanks made a furious comeback to snatch the Division on a tie-breaker, how well did that momentum carry over into the playoffs for ya?

Ousted by the Angels, that's how.

[Matthew]

Might be a bad sign for Boston that Mussina pitched very well last night. If the Yankees get any kind of pitching in the play-offs, they'll be tough to beat. And the thing about playing the Angels in Anaheim is that there will be a ton of Yankee fans in the stands -- yuck! So it really won't be a hostile environment for the Yankees. I hate to say it, but they are looking very dangerous right now. Needless to say, there's no NL team right now that could win a game against the Red Sox or Yankees, and they wouldn't do that well against anyone else in the World Series.

[Dan Gould]

Well, I missed the news about Manny:

He had a setback while running yesterday. I would say the earliest you will see him would be when they return to Fenway next week and it will probably not be until the last series of the season.

I'd love to see the Yankees win for a month if A-Rod were on the shelf.

[Patrick]

Manny ... no one knows about. He's got to get back in to get his swing back in time for the playoffs, but he can't do it any sooner than is safe because he can easily reinjure it and end his season. If you didn't hear, we have a new, all-time Manny Moment. He actually asked Francona about being sent out on a rehab assignment! Uh, Manny, its September, the minor league season is over and all the Sox teams are out of the playoffs. No instructional league til next year, so uh, no, there's no place to send you.

That is hilarious. I'm probably not remembering the story correctly, but early in his days in Cleveland, in the parking lot (maybe in spring training) he asked the beat writer for the Plain Dealer if he could borrow some large sum of money, something like $10K, and thought the writer would happen to have that much cash on him. I'll have to see if that story is in a book at home. Are the Manny moments collected somewhere online? If so, I hope some of the Cleveland ones are included. I've always found him amusing (sometimes in a frustrating way) and an amazing hitter. ...Earth to Manny...

Might be a bad sign for Boston that Mussina pitched very well last night. If the Yankees get any kind of pitching in the play-offs, they'll be tough to beat. And the thing about playing the Angels in Anaheim is that there will be a ton of Yankee fans in the stands -- yuck! So it really won't be a hostile environment for the Yankees. I hate to say it, but they are looking very dangerous right now. Needless to say, there's no NL team right now that could win a game against the Red Sox or Yankees, and they wouldn't do that well against anyone else in the World Series.

Obviously a good performance for Moose, maybe a sign of things to come, but I wouldn't read much into it at all. The Orioles are not mediocre, or pretty bad, they are really bad. Listless, lifeless, lousy. What energy they exhibit is coming from a few minor leaguers trying to impress. Still Moose only gave up 3 hits. I'd say a better read would be pitching against Toronto, but looks like he won't face them, just another start or two against Baltimore and TB.

And in the bottom of the fifth looks like Tribe bats are finally getting to the often tough Nate Robertson. After scoring three, however, Hafner just grounded into an inning ending double play (with men on first and third), after striking out in his first two ABs. Sabathia really could use a win this afternoon to keep up in the Cy Young race. We shall see.

[Dan Gould]

And in the bottom of the fifth looks like Tribe bats are finally getting to the often tough Nate Robertson. After scoring three, however, Hafner just grounded into an inning ending double play (with men on first and third), after striking out in his first two ABs. Sabathia really could use a win this afternoon to keep up in the Cy Young race. We shall see.

Keep it going, I'll be happy if Buchholz stops the bleeding tonight and we go to bed with a magic number of 2.

[MartyJazz]

(snip)

Last comment for the Yankee fans, in line with my earlier observation about how the AL Central finished last season and what happened in the playoffs. Last time the Yanks made a furious comeback to snatch the Division on a tie-breaker, how well did that momentum carry over into the playoffs for ya?

Ousted by the Angels, that's how.

Wow, I guess the Yanks should let up, huh, and play losing baseball and just be content to make the playoffs. No thanks, tradition won't allow it. If we don't win the AL East this year, it's not because we're just happy to get into the playoffs as you seem to be suggesting that the Sox are simply intent on doing. (FWIW, I don't think the Sox are just content to make the playoffs - Manny, he's another story however). And if we get ousted by the Angels again, well, that's baseball. The past however has nothing to do with what happens now.

[BERIGAN]

Gee, you mean the Braves were really making money all along, and the 80 mil cap was B.S.??? Shocked, shocked I am!

Rarely seen financials show Braves doing well

[BERIGAN]

... Needless to say, there's no NL team right now that could win a game against the Red Sox or Yankees, and they wouldn't do that well against anyone else in the World Series.

Well now, I wouldn't say that....clearly they are better than the teams in the NL, but who would have thought a NL team could beat Detroit last year, the team that beat the Yankees in 3 games I believe?

I'd love, just love to see the Sox play the Phillies in the WS. Oh man, no bullpen at all in Philly, but man can they bash....and could you imagine the scores in those two bandboxes??? lots of 9-8 games...in the 4th.