The Baseball Thread 2007

[Quincy]

Good Lord! And trying to remember... when did they go to the "3 innings=save" stat definition?

It's part 3 of the 3 conditions. This must have been the easiest 3 inning save in history.

The rule:

The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:

(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;

(2) He is not the winning pitcher;

(3) He is credited with at least a third of an inning pitched; and

(4) He satisfies one of the following conditions:

(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches at least one inning;

(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or

© He pitches for at least three innings.

If the pitcher surrenders the lead at any point, he cannot get a save, but he may be credited as the winning pitcher if his team comes back to win. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

[donald byrd 4 EVA]

peavy is inching closer to the cy young and the padres are inching closer toward irrelevance...

[Quincy]

peavy is inching closer to the cy young and the padres are inching closer toward irrelevance...

Yeah, I did a comparison to Webb, and as fine a season as Webb is having it's not close. Being a stathead smartass I thought "well maybe Peavy is just benefiting from Petco Park." No-siree, his road ERA is like Bob Gibson '68. Crazy crazy wicked stuff.

Don't be so down, you're wild card right now aren't ya? You've seen enough of the wild card age to know that (I sound like a damn promotion) once the playoffs start the regular season records don't matter. There have been so many wild card World Series teams, and throw in last year's Cards I wouldn't sweat being the 4th best team in the worst league if that's how it happens.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Quincy

[Dan Gould]

Good Lord! And trying to remember... when did they go to the "3 innings=save" stat definition?

It's part 3 of the 3 conditions. This must have been the easiest 3 inning save in history.

The rule:

The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions:

(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;

(2) He is not the winning pitcher;

(3) He is credited with at least a third of an inning pitched; and

(4) He satisfies one of the following conditions:

(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches at least one inning;

(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or

© He pitches for at least three innings.

If the pitcher surrenders the lead at any point, he cannot get a save, but he may be credited as the winning pitcher if his team comes back to win. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

Maybe the last condition shouldn't be the official scorer "shall credit a pitcher with a save" but "may, at his discretion, credit a pitcher with a save. Just like an official scorer makes a judgment on a wild pitch/passed ball and a hit/error, he can use his critical faculties to judge whether or not someone who came into a game with a 14-3 lead that grew to 30-3 actually deserves a save.

What stands out to me is that the game was a run of the mill blow out through seven innings before Texas just kept scoring and scoring and scoring. Most of those super high scoring games start out with a huge number of runs (like the time the Sox scored ten runs in the first against the Marlins before an out had even been recorded), and they add on a few more but then everyone just wants it to be over.

Interesting, too, that the 29 hits wasn't equally as rare as the 30 runs - I saw a stat that some team (the Brewers?) put up 32 hits only 15 years ago.

No doubt, its one deserving of its own "Rumblings and Grumblings" Jayson Stark column so we can learn all about the minutia of this extraordinary event. And no doubt that Al is loving the fact that Gabbard pitched very well for the win and Saltalamacchia and David Murphy were a big part of the record setting offense.

[Big Al]

And no doubt that Al is loving the fact that Gabbard pitched very well for the win and Saltalamacchia and David Murphy were a big part of the record setting offense.

Make no mistake, I'm happy! That was a helluva win (winS, actually).

But here's the rub: this is typical of the Rangers, and it shows why they are the mediocre club that they are: the offense ALWAYS goes in spurts like this. Let's not forget that prior to this game, they barely managed any runs while striking out 27 times in two games! Hell, even after scoring 30 runs last night, I was afraid (and rightly so) that the Rangers would get shut out in game 2, having exhausted all of their offense in the first game. Happily, I was wrong and the Rangers continued to shore up the runs in the second game.

I just wish they would do this on a more consistent basis instead of saving up all their runs for one game. I mean, yeah it's an unbelievable thing they did last night, but at the end of the day, the Rangers are still one of the five worst teams in the Majors right now. Last night will just be a happy footnote to an otherwise forgettable season.

Having said that, though, hopefully what we saw last night was the first flowering of the seeds planted in the big trades that got us Gabbard and Salty. And Travis Chapman, just called up from the minors, had a helluva night last night, so hopefully he can stay hot & consistent. I hope this all adds up to a more powerful team next year.

[Big Al]

What stands out to me is that the game was a run of the mill blow out through seven innings before Texas just kept scoring and scoring and scoring. Most of those super high scoring games start out with a huge number of runs (like the time the Sox scored ten runs in the first against the Marlins before an out had even been recorded), and they add on a few more but then everyone just wants it to be over.

Interestingly, the last time the Rangers had a blowout of this magnitude was back in April 1996. It was actually a pretty close game going into the bottom of the eighth, the score was 10-7 Rangers until the Rangers piled on 16 runs during their 8th-inning at-bat.

The opponent? The Baltimore Orioles.

Check out the Box score from that game! Hard to believe the Rangers won that game after blowing a five-run lead earlier.

[Patrick]

Jake Westbrook had another great outing for the Tribe in a pitcher's duel against Nate Robertson and the Tigers. Like Sabathia and Carmona he was rewarded with a no decision. In 5 August starts, Westbrook is 3-1 with a 1.50 ERA, averaging 7+ innings, 1.2 earned runs, 4.6 hits, 3.8K, 1.4BB per outing (opponents have been NYY, Det, TB, Chi, Tex). The loss was a bad one to NYY--hopefully Jake will continue to pitch well, esp against high quality opponents. This afternoon's was another tough game trying to score runs, but Tribe managed to get 3 in the 10th off of a somewhat erratic Zumaya. JoeBo once again made it real exciting in the bottom of the 10th after getting the first two out (double, single, double), but was able to retire IRod to end it. I wonder if he has more than one 1-2-3 inning for a save, and how often he gives up at least a run (like he did today).

Race for the central crown looks like it will go down to the wire. Tribe and Tigers face each other only 3 more times (in mid-September). Their schedules the rest of the way are quite similar. Only differences (ignoring home/away distinctions) are Cle has (4 LAA, 2 Sea, 3 KC) and Det has (4 NYY, 1 Tor, 3 Tex). Yanks are at Detroit. Tribe goes to LA. Degree of difficulty a bit higher for Tribe, but they presently have a 2.5 game lead. Cleveland's penultimate series is 4 games in Seattle--could be very interesting for the Division and the wildcard. [...or maybe less interesting if Det continues to lose series the rest of the way while Tribe finds their misplaced bats ]

[GA Russell]

And no doubt that Al is loving the fact that Gabbard pitched very well for the win and Saltalamacchia and David Murphy were a big part of the record setting offense.

I don't know the facts of this game, but how can you say that a starter pitched well when he is taken out with a huge lead?

[Quincy]

And no doubt that Al is loving the fact that Gabbard pitched very well for the win and Saltalamacchia and David Murphy were a big part of the record setting offense.

I don't know the facts of this game, but how can you say that a starter pitched well when he is taken out with a huge lead?

He'd thrown 89 pitches (56 for strikes) and had a 14-3 lead when they took him out. It's a "compliment" not to waste him or wear him down with such a lead. Less wear & tear on Gabbard for his next start.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Quincy

[Dan Gould]

And he recently missed a start with a forearm "strain" and he rarely exceeded six innings in his career with the Red Sox.

[BERIGAN]

The Braves just released Bob Wickman!!!! Granted, he has been terrible on the road, but he only gave up one run at the Ted all year long!!! Gotta believe something else was behind it , a bad attitude, something....What sunk his ship??? Having him face Adam Dunn last night, the only guy that hit a homer off him last year when he was with Cleveland. Tyler Yates should have gone out for another inning, but the brilliant Booby Cox said, nah' lets have the closer who is doing terrible on the road face a guy he gave up a grand slam to, in the very same bandbox in Cincinnati!

This may seem minor to you all, but trust me, just one of about 5 mistakes a night Booby makes. He is living off past glory, the guy is overmatched these days.

[BERIGAN]

Well, I guess he was a head case...

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/b...ckman_0825.html

[Patrick]

Middle of last year (while still with Tribe), Wick gave all indications that that would be his last year. It was a challenge for him to come back after his injuries, and he greatly appreciated the chance the Tribe gave him to come back (and all the paychecks he cashed while missing time). Change of scenery to ATL got him to start another year, but it appears that he is out of gas (physically and perhaps mentally). I don't recall any of this type of BS while in Cleveland--where the bullpen he was part of came under a lot of fire.

[Dan Gould]

It really is surprising for a contending team to DFA its closer, but I guess they decided it was time. I also find it odd for someone who, as Patrick describes it, was barely motivated to continue would be such a dickhead about how he was being used. Its not as if he wanted to get his saves to get another contract next season.

And Patrick, does it feel like the Tigers are going into the tank the way the Tribe did in 2005? The only difference seems to be that they aren't waiting til the final weekend to do it. A .390 winning percentage since the break, and now without Sheffield for an indeterminate amount of time. And all this at precisely the wrong time for my team. Looks like we're going to have to take care of the Yanks ourselves ...

[Patrick]

That is what it looks like, esp with Shef on the shelf and Kenny Rogers unlikely to make much of an appearance. At least Granderson got a leadoff double off of Clemens. and now Maggs has gone yard in the first.

Unfortunately, the Tribe appears to be right there with the Tigers. Another dreadful game against a weak sister in the AL. Sabathia pitches 8 solid innings against KC, giving up 2 runs. Tribe can only scratch a single run. Greinke gets pulled after 3 innings for some reason (injury?), and Tribe does nothing. It's been a long time since starting pitching has been the bedrock for the Indians and the offense has been so anemic. The collars are really tight around Sizemore, Martinez, Hafner, and all the rest (maybe excluding Garko). Wedge has done everything but call these guys out by name. They claim to have learned from fading in other years, but they are repeating it again. Thank goodness the Tigers are struggling as well. Sheesh.

Nice doubleheader for the RedSox today. Beckett started off a bit shakey in the first, but settled down.

[Dan Gould]

Yeah, Beckett has cut down so much on his walks, it was shocking to see him lose touch with the strike zone so abruptly. Watching Schilling in the nightcap, I still fear for his start in the Bronx next week, even if he looked a little better than he has. Still no life on his fastball. But the only thing better than going to sleep with a doubleheader sweep is waking up to find out the Yanks lost at 3:30 in the morning on a three run walk-off bomb. Now if Wang can continue his streak of poor starts ... Cleveland really needs to find their offensive groove now that the pitching has come around, or they'll discover there is enough time for Detroit to right itself.

[Big Al]

What'd I tell y'all? After scoring 39 runs in one night, the Rangers have yet to equal their game two total in the last two games. Par for the course.

[Dan Gould]

Well thank heaven the White Sox are such patsies while Detroit is showing a little life against the Yanks.

7 1/2 games up with 31 to play.

If the Sox go 18-13 the rest of the way (.581), they'll finish with 98 wins.

The Yankees would have to go 26-6 (.813) to tie.

The Sox have 26 games left against Eastern division opponents.

The Yankees have 25.

Red Sox record against the East: 30-17

Yankees record against the East: 22-25

So while the above scenario leaves the Yankees with zero room for error, it also assumes that the Sox will play worse than they have. Should they play a bit better, then it leaves the Yankees in the position of having to go something completely ridiculous like 28-4 the rest of the way.

I'd say stick a fork in them, but the fact remains that there are six games between us left, and there remains the possibility of a sweep. So I won't make any ironclad predictions until the Sox take care of business head to head.

[GA Russell]

I didn't realize until reading the paper this morning that at age 41 Wakefield is leading the majors (tied with Beckett) in wins. I think it said that he has won 11 of his last 14 starts.

*****

Dan, nowadays who cares who finishes in first place? The Yanks look good to make the playoffs, and in recent years wild card teams have made the World Series lots of times.

Edited August 27, 2007 by GA Russell

[MartyJazz]

Dan cares. He wants the AL East division title after all these years of Yankee dominance. That said, I do not think it is a slam dunk at all that the Yanks will cop a wild card. The team is too inconsistent, particularly where starting pitching is concerned.

On another note, how in less than two years could the 2005 World Champion White Sox become as bad as they have? Outscored

46-7 in a four game sweep by the Red Sox, giving up double digit runs in each game. Positively shameful!

[Dan Gould]

Marty has hit it on the nose. Yankee dominance plus a sense of entitlement on the part of some fans (mostly the ones at the MLB board) makes the thought of an AL East championship very appealing, and the possibility of the Yanks missing the playoffs even more so.

GA, its funny you should mention the Wild Card because right now of course the Sox are positioned to have home field advantage throughout and the Wild Card team never has home field until the World Series. Normally its such a big advantage but I have been thinking lately about the fact that our three best pitchers actually are doing significantly better on the road than at Fenway.

Beckett:

7-4, 4.25 at home

9-1, 1.90 on the road

Matsuzaka:

6-4, 4.76 at home

7-6, 2.99 on the road

Wakefield:

9-4, 4.82 at home

7-6, 3.47 on the road

What is the point of securing home field (and presumably doing it with plenty of time to set up your pitching rotation) if you don't want any of your best guys to start at home? (Or maybe I should say, you'd like your best guys to start on the road).

Do you go with Schilling and Tavarez in Games 1 and 2?

[Dan Gould]

And as if it couldn't get any tougher heading into this series with the Red Sox, the Yanks are getting clobbered by Detroit by a worse score than anything the Red Sox hung on the Chisox. 16-0, 19 hits given up, and Detroit gets one more shot at the Yankee bullpen in the bottom of the eighth.

Moose gave up six runs in three innings when he was possibly pitching for his spot in the rotation. Torre wouldn't say that for sure but he also wouldn't say that Mussina was safe either, in fact he said something about "skipping him" for a turn or two. Considering how much Mussina bitches and whines if there is an offday or a rainout and he pitches on anything other than 4 days rest, I kinda doubt that will go over very well.

[Aggie87]

Astros fired Phil Garner and GM Tim Purpura today.

They've got ALOT of work to do to get back to being a semi-decent team.

At least they don't suck as much as the Giants.

[Patrick]

Cecil Cooper was a favorite when he was on those bashing Brewers teams (and the Avalon Hill baseball game--he had a great card one of those years). Hopefully he'll have some success in Stroland.

Mussina looks like he's hurt. That was brutal tonight. How did the Tribe only manage 2 runs against him in mid-August?

[GA Russell]

I do not think it is a slam dunk at all that the Yanks will cop a wild card. The team is too inconsistent, particularly where starting pitching is concerned.

Yes, I read in the paper this morning that the Yanks are second in the race for the wild card spot.

Dan, your ERA stats of the Red Sox pitchers make me wonder if the pitchers throughout the league have higher ERAs in Fenway than in the other parks.