The Baseball Thread 2007

[Dan Gould]

It was 40 years ago today.

[Big Al]

I also cordially invite your GM to throw as much money as possible at Gagne to bring him back for next year, insuring another lost season at Arlington.

Although, I shouldn't laugh: they just might do that! :eek:

[BERIGAN]

And what the fuck happens???

That motherfucking piece of fucking shit fucks away a four rally in the eighth.

THREE FUCKING WINS FUCKED AWAY BY HIM IN FOUR FUCKING APPEARANCES!

Saw the "highlights" on baseball tonight. Just amazing. When it rains, it pours! Of course he deserves blame, but he made a very good pitch to Vlad, and we all know Vlad loves really low pitches as well as, well any pitch towards his direction.

[Dan Gould]

I hate to point this out, but the Blue Jays just might be a very dangerous club next season. I just discovered that they are now second to the Red Sox in fewest runs allowed in the league. At 514 they've allowed just 22 more runs than the Sox, and are ahead of Minnesota, Oakland and LA. They're young pitchers they've brought up look like they've got some talent; if AJ Burnett ever puts together a full season, him and Doc Holladay could front one of the best rotations in the league.

[Tim McG]

And what the fuck happens???

That motherfucking piece of fucking shit fucks away a four rally in the eighth.

THREE FUCKING WINS FUCKED AWAY BY HIM IN FOUR FUCKING APPEARANCES!

Um.

As a Speech and English teacher, I can help you with your limited vocabulary, Dan.

[Tim McG]

BTW, I hate Gag-ne, too....but for obviously different juiced up reasons.

Go BoSox!

Death to the Yonkers!

[Big Al]

You know it's bad when the Rangers' announcers are talking about the Red Sox five-run lead tonight, and wonder aloud if Gagne can be trusted with a lead that size.

[Dan Gould]

You know it's bad when the Rangers' announcers are talking about the Red Sox five-run lead tonight, and wonder aloud if Gagne can be trusted with a lead that size.

Well, it was a great win and all, coming back from 5-0 with a Yankee-style crooked number in the fifth, and tacking on four more in the bottom of the eighth. But after Okajima took care of the Halos in the top of the eighth and the Red Sox made it a laugher, why why why was Papelbon brought in with a five run lead? Was he the only pitcher warming after Oki? Because now we're back in the same situation as the night game on Friday - Papelbon has been used two days in a row, there is no way he'll get the call on Sunday. Best case scenario is Oki plays closer, and Gag-me will be in there in the eighth. What the hell is Tito smoking????

I'd pray for a complete blowout but with Tavarez facing Joe Saunders, those odds only favor the Angels. Here's hoping that Bonderman takes care of the Yanks and Wang keeps up his atrocious pitching.

[Tim McG]

Help me understand something here: Why do the BoSox have Julian Tavarez and Gagne on the pitching staff? I mean, was the pitching that sparse that they needed to go out and get two of the biggest a-holes on this or any other planet?

Just ask a Giants fan what they think of Tavarez and you'll get an earful...Gag-me, too.

Ack

Edited August 19, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

Help me understand something here: Why do the BoSox have Julian Tavarez and Gagne on the pitching staff? I mean, was the pitching that sparse that they needed to go out and get two of the biggest a-holes on this or any other planet?

Just ask a Giants fan what they think of Tavarez and you'll get an earful...Gag-me, too.

Ack

Yeah, Gagne and Tavarez must be the two biggest a-holes on any team's roster ever.

Wait a minute - didn't Tavarez play with one Barry Lamar Bonds?

Well, second place on that list isn't too bad.

[HolyStitt]

I was very lucky to be able to attend the amazing Twins/Rangers game today. Santana pitched a real gem, though the bats continued a strike of leaving runners on base. The game went from the high of watching Johan strike out the side to having the Twins consistently hit into double plays.

[Big Al]

I was very lucky to be able to attend the amazing Twins/Rangers game today. Santana pitched a real gem, though the bats continued a strike of leaving runners on base. The game went from the high of watching Johan strike out the side to having the Twins consistently hit into double plays.

Incredible indeed! I hate to be on the losing end of it, but I love a good pitcher's duel, and this one was a gem!

[Tim McG]

Help me understand something here: Why do the BoSox have Julian Tavarez and Gagne on the pitching staff? I mean, was the pitching that sparse that they needed to go out and get two of the biggest a-holes on this or any other planet?

Just ask a Giants fan what they think of Tavarez and you'll get an earful...Gag-me, too.

Ack

Yeah, Gagne and Tavarez must be the two biggest a-holes on any team's roster ever.

Wait a minute - didn't Tavarez play with one Barry Lamar Bonds?

Well, second place on that list isn't too bad.

Yeah, well the Giants got smart and dumped his sorry ass.

Sorry you guys got him.

Tavarez: Cuddly, Cheat or Crazy?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brian Walton

TheSTLCardinals.com Sep 11, 2005

History demonstrates that Julian Tavarez’ beanball delivered to the side of Mike Piazza’s head on Saturday night is not some isolated incident.

Julian Tavarez is probably loving it.

Turning himself into the center of attention of the New York Mets by throwing a pitch into the side of Mike Piazza’s head Saturday night. After all, how dare Piazza hit a home run in his first at-bat back from the disabled list? As a result, Piazza went looking for Tavarez after the game, but had to settle for meeting with Tony La Russa instead.

And yes, Tavarez is probably loving turning himself into the center of attention for adoring Cardinal fans by collecting his 30th hold of the season, second most in all of Major League Baseball, just a few short minutes later.

Well, I don’t love it. The good that is associated with Julian Tavarez seems always to be overshadowed by the bad.

Those who choose to defend Tavarez point out that he is a sinkerball specialist and now and then pitches can and do get away from every hurler.

Those who are concerned only with winning point out that Tavarez is the kind of player who opponents hate, yet you want to have on your side. I don’t buy that, either. That same description could be used for pesky leadoff man David Eckstein, yet he earned that label by his hard play and is respected for it, not despised.

I continue to struggle with accepting the fact that Tavarez is really a Cardinal, despite the uniform he wears. Instead, I view him as a mistake. I can only hope that with his initial two-year contract up at the end of the season, that he does not return to St. Louis in 2006.

I just don’t believe this man deserves to be a Cardinal. And, the recent problems he’s caused are just the tip of a very large iceberg.

Julian Tavarez Carmen is no child. He is 32 years old and has been in the majors for over eleven years now. There is a long list of Tavarez’ former teams, most of whom grew weary of him for some very good reasons. He has a considerable history of disciplinary actions having been taken against him, many of which involve throwing at opposing hitters.

Let’s look back on some specific, selected actions from the past. Perhaps MLB and its disciplinarian Bob Watson are repeatedly and unfairly picking on an innocent, misunderstood man or more possibly, Tavarez is a notorious and repeated headhunter and nut case.

So, you decide for yourself. Is the man is cuddly, crazy or a cheat? Or, is he all three?

Cuddly – 1995

20-year old Julian Tavarez first appeared in 1993 and his big break on the major league scene came as the fireballing hurler played a key role for the 1995 American League Champion Cleveland Indians. The Dominican captured the fancy of America because the only English word he knew was “chicken”. Soon enough, Tavarez learned the language so well that he would conduct interviews himself.

Crazy - 1996

It didn’t take long for things to go wrong. Tavarez apparently selected the wrong role model in Cleveland. In 1996, defending teammate and one of the most disciplined players ever, Albert Belle, led Tavarez to his first suspension. It was for body-slamming an umpire. Of course, from Julian’s perspective, it was an unfortunate accident.

Belle was angry at getting hit by a pitch. He took it out via a forearm to Milwaukee Brewers’ second baseman Fernando Vina’s face. After Belle and Tavarez spoke between innings, Tavarez threw behind Brewers’ catcher Mike Matheny, who charged the mound.

In the melee that followed, umpire Joe Brinkman grabbed Tavarez from behind and was thrown to the turf. Tavarez insisted he didn’t know it was an ump, but still served five games.

Crazy – 1998

By now, Tavarez had been shipped to the San Francisco Giants. In a September, 1998 game, Tavarez took exception to ball four call by throwing his glove to the turf and yelling at the home plate umpire. He flung his cap toward home plate and headed toward the ump, wildly gesturing. Manager Dusty Baker had to pull Tavarez away from his chest-to-chest bumping of the ump, Sam Holbrook. A three-game suspension ensued.

Crazy – 1999

After allowing six runs in an outing against Oakland, Tavarez drilled catcher Mike Macfarlane in the back with a pitch. As Macfarlane was lying on the ground in pain, Tavarez stared down A’s manager Art Howe until Baker had to come out and remove Tavarez from the game.

Crazy - 2001

Tavarez had been waived by the Giants and passed through Colorado before moving on to the Cubs. He quickly fit right in, fighting with Giant Russ Davis, and inciting a bench-clearing brawl - during a spring training game! Tavarez took a flying kick at Davis, who had charged the mound after taking exception to what he felt was Tavarez taunting him after a strikeout. Five more games on the pines for Julian.

Crazy – 2001

Before Tavarez could serve the above suspension, his Cubs team had an April series in San Francisco. The Giants fans gave him a hard time and instead of turning the other cheek, Tavarez yelled back. Among his on-the-record comments about his former teams’ fans was a John Rocker-esque declaration that “they are a bunch of a-holes and faggots.” Bud Selig called the comments “reprehensible”. Tavarez justified it in his mind by complaining that the fans threw eggs at him. The only additional punishment meted out was that Tavarez was ordered to undergo sensitivity training.

Cuddly – 2001

On the bench in Chi-town, Tavarez poured rubbing alcohol onto a towel, which he wiped on his head in an apparent attempt to remain cool. However, he may have gone too far when he slipped behind no-nonsense manager Don Baylor and shoved the smelly towel under Baylor’s nose. Tavarez was soon traded to Florida.

Cuddly – 2002

In a close game while pitching for the Marlins, Tavarez stepped into the batters box against Colorado’s Mike Hampton. Oddly, the right-hander came up as a left-handed hitter. He swung and missed at the first pitch before moving to the other side of the plate, from where he promptly blooped an RBI single.

Crazy – 2003

Now with the Pittsburgh Pirates, Tavarez came out of the bullpen to escalate a fight that was in the process of cooling off between Tampa Bay’s Marlon Anderson and Tavarez’ teammate Jason Kendall. Tavarez admitted to throwing punches, but accused an unidentified Tampa player of choking him from behind. Seems like it is a bad idea to come up behind him. A three-game suspension ensued.

Crazy – 2003

Still angry over an incident where they feared a Tavarez pitch had broken the arm of first baseman J.T. Snow, Giants manager Felipe Alou mentioned what to that point had been an unspoken assumption – that Tavarez has a history of beaning ex-teammates.

Crazy – 2003

After Tavarez hit him with a pitch, Atlanta Braves outfielder Gary Sheffield glared while slowly walking to first. He carried his bat the entire 90 feet and only gave it up upon reaching the first base bag.

Cheat - 2003

In a signal of problems to come, later that season, Alou strongly intimated that he knew that Tavarez was wearing a cap with pine tar on it. Alou did not publicly press the matter, however.

Cheat – 2004

Despite repeated warnings about his practice of keeping pine tar on his cap, Tavarez continued to flaunt the rules – until Lloyd McClendon’s Pittsburgh Pirates called him on it. Despite Tavarez having thrown the evidence, his dirty cap, into the stands, he was served with a ten-game suspension handed down by Watson.

Crazy – 2004

In the NLCS, Tavarez is quoted as saying the Astros aren’t that special and then fired a pitch up near Jeff Bagwell’s head. That generated a bench clearing and a fine for Tavarez. In a childish fit of rage, Tavarez breaks his hand on a bullpen phone, damaging his team’s World Series aspirations.

In closing

It remains to be seen what the ramifications of Tavarez’ most recent actions will be in terms of his relationship with his manager, teammates and the Mets, let alone Watson and the MLB disciplinarians. But it is clear that with Tavarez, nothing will change as a result.

Upon signing with the Cardinals in the 2003-2004 off-season, Tavarez spoke fondly of his time in Pittsburgh. He made it clear he preferred to stay there, but the Cardinals offered twice the salary. If it were up to me, I’d do everything possible to make sure he takes a nice, big, fat offer to return there in 2006.

Being quietly banished from St. Louis can happen. Just ask Steve Kline.

I've said it before and I will say it again. In my book, Julian Tavarez doesn’t deserve to be a Cardinal and never has.

Hell, he didn't deserve to be a Giant, either.

What a friggin' LOSER.

I feel your pain, Dan

Edited August 20, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[MartyJazz]

As of today and with the Red Sox loss yesterday to the Angels, there isn't a team in either the American or National League who has at least a .600 winning percentage. Why such mediocrity?

[Noj]

Mediocrity, or balance?

[paul secor]

Mediocrity, or balance?

One doesn't necessarily exclude the other.

[Dan Gould]

Every team has flaws, or at least things they don't do as well as they should to be strong favorites.

the Yankees - suspect starting pitching and bullpen. Can the youngsters do the job in the pen? If they can't, its likely that Yankee fans will rue the overuse of Vizcaino, Mariano, et. al., down the stretch.

The Red Sox - inconsistent clutch hitting and scoring; Papi and Manny are hitting better since the break, but can they turn it on throughout the stretch drive?

Indians - surprisingly weak offense and suspect pitching after their first two or three starters.

Tigers - Same problem, which is surprising considering their presumed pitching advantage. At this point the biggest disappointment in the league and considering how many people picked them to return to the Series, in position to be one of the biggest busts of the decade.

Mariners - Just barely scored more runs than they've allowed. Have Jeff Weaver making regular starts (if that's not a flaw I don't know what is).

[Big Al]

Every team has flaws, or at least things they don't do as well as they should to be strong favorites.

the Yankees - suspect starting pitching and bullpen. Can the youngsters do the job in the pen? If they can't, its likely that Yankee fans will rue the overuse of Vizcaino, Mariano, et. al., down the stretch.

The Red Sox - inconsistent clutch hitting and scoring; Papi and Manny are hitting better since the break, but can they turn it on throughout the stretch drive?

Indians - surprisingly weak offense and suspect pitching after their first two or three starters.

Tigers - Same problem, which is surprising considering their presumed pitching advantage. At this point the biggest disappointment in the league and considering how many people picked them to return to the Series, in position to be one of the biggest busts of the decade.

Mariners - Just barely scored more runs than they've allowed. Have Jeff Weaver making regular starts (if that's not a flaw I don't know what is).

Rangers - Continue to field a AAA ballclub....

[Johnny E]

Every team has flaws, or at least things they don't do as well as they should to be strong favorites.

Mariners - Just barely scored more runs than they've allowed. Have Jeff Weaver making regular starts (if that's not a flaw I don't know what is).

You obviously don't watch the M's regularly, so let me tip you to some knowledge:

The reason the Mariners "barely scored more runs than they've allowed" is because of Weaver (first half) and Ramirez (second half). These guys gave up like 10 runs per game. Weaver has turned things around in the second half and has been one of most consistent pitchers. Ramirez is starting tonight, and if he gives up big runs early (which has been his signature since the all start break) then expect to see him sent down. Our offense kicks ass and our billpen is the best in baseball.

17 games over .500 in the back end of August. Second best record in the AL. Not bad for a team that everyone expected would battle Texas for last place.

[Dan Gould]

Every team has flaws, or at least things they don't do as well as they should to be strong favorites.

Mariners - Just barely scored more runs than they've allowed. Have Jeff Weaver making regular starts (if that's not a flaw I don't know what is).

You obviously don't watch the M's regularly, so let me tip you to some knowledge:

The reason the Mariners "barely scored more runs than they've allowed" is because of Weaver (first half) and Ramirez (second half). These guys gave up like 10 runs per game. Weaver has turned things around in the second half and has been one of most consistent pitchers. Ramirez is starting tonight, and if he gives up big runs early (which has been his signature since the all start break) then expect to see him sent down. Our offense kicks ass and our billpen is the best in baseball.

17 games over .500 in the back end of August. Second best record in the AL. Not bad for a team that everyone expected would battle Texas for last place.

How do you get second best record in the AL when the Red Sox are still number one, and the M's continue to trail the Angels?

And if indeed your bullpen is the best (even with Gagne's failures I'm pretty sure the Red Sox lead in that department is intact), that's a helluva an accomplishment considering that the team ERA ranks 20th in the majors, right between those famously great pitching staffs in Milwaukee and St Louis. Only four teams in the AL are behind you. So I kinda doubt its only because of Weaver and Ramirez.

I imagine though that your offense really would kick ass if that clown Sexson weren't hitting .209. But the really hysterical thing is that your "kick ass" offense ranks last among all of the playoff contenders, so if things continue the way they are, and you make it in, you'll trail the Sox, Indians and Angels, as well as the Tigers and Yankees, in runs scored.

[Johnny E]

How do you get second best record in the AL when the Red Sox are still number one, and the M's continue to trail the Angels?

And if indeed your bullpen is the best (even with Gagne's failures I'm pretty sure the Red Sox lead in that department is intact), that's a helluva an accomplishment considering that the team ERA ranks 20th in the majors, right between those famously great pitching staffs in Milwaukee and St Louis. Only four teams in the AL are behind you. So I kinda doubt its only because of Weaver and Ramirez.

I imagine though that your offense really would kick ass if that clown Sexson weren't hitting .209. But the really hysterical thing is that your "kick ass" offense ranks last among all of the playoff contenders, so if things continue the way they are, and you make it in, you'll trail the Sox, Indians and Angels, as well as the Tigers and Yankees, in runs scored.

Third best, sorry, that's what I meant.

Of course "best" is subjective. But certainly they are in the top two or three -no doubt about that. And since the sox got Gagne, I'd say they Mariners pen IS better than theirs.

Your last paragraph is simply a jab. It's not based on reality or facts. It's true that sexon is having an off year. But the rest of the team is picking him up. And the one thing your leaving out of the equation is the fact that the Mariners had an entire 4 game series snowed out at the beginning of the season. The M's have played 121 games, while the Yanks, Detroit and Boston have played 124 and the Angels and Indians have played 123. There's no way we'd get close to the BoSox, Detroit or the Yanks even with the extra games, but we're right in line with the Angels and Indians, two teams we're battling with (the other is Detroit, who happen to be 3rd in the AL for runs allowed - right behind Texas and Chicago). Seattle has the 3rd highest Batting Average in the majors with a .285 average. One one hundreth of a percentage point behind Detriot.

You east coasters think that the entire baseball world revolves around the Yankess and BoSox. And that's fine by me. We'll see what happens come October. I think the Angels just proved that they are just as good or better a team than the BoSox. And I still believe that the Yankees will not win another World Series until they get rid of A-Rod. I can't wait to see Ichiro slap Gag-me around in the league chapionship series. If the Sox even make it to the playoffs. Smells like 78' to me.

[Dan Gould]

How do you get second best record in the AL when the Red Sox are still number one, and the M's continue to trail the Angels?

And if indeed your bullpen is the best (even with Gagne's failures I'm pretty sure the Red Sox lead in that department is intact), that's a helluva an accomplishment considering that the team ERA ranks 20th in the majors, right between those famously great pitching staffs in Milwaukee and St Louis. Only four teams in the AL are behind you. So I kinda doubt its only because of Weaver and Ramirez.

I imagine though that your offense really would kick ass if that clown Sexson weren't hitting .209. But the really hysterical thing is that your "kick ass" offense ranks last among all of the playoff contenders, so if things continue the way they are, and you make it in, you'll trail the Sox, Indians and Angels, as well as the Tigers and Yankees, in runs scored.

Third best, sorry, that's what I meant.

Of course "best" is subjective. But certainly they are in the top two or three -no doubt about that. And since the sox got Gagne, I'd say they Mariners pen IS better than theirs.

Your last paragraph is simply a jab. It's not based on reality or facts. It's true that sexon is having an off year. But the rest of the team is picking him up. And the one thing your leaving out of the equation is the fact that the Mariners had an entire 4 game series snowed out at the beginning of the season. The M's have played 121 games, while the Yanks, Detroit and Boston have played 124 and the Angels and Indians have played 123. There's no way we'd get close to the BoSox, Detroit or the Yanks even with the extra games, but we're right in line with the Angels and Indians, two teams we're battling with (the other is Detroit, who happen to be 3rd in the AL for runs allowed - right behind Texas and Chicago). Seattle has the 3rd highest Batting Average in the majors with a .285 average. One one hundreth of a percentage point behind Detriot.

You east coasters think that the entire baseball world revolves around the Yankess and BoSox. And that's fine by me. We'll see what happens come October. I think the Angels just proved that they are just as good or better a team than the BoSox. And I still believe that the Yankees will not win another World Series until they get rid of A-Rod. I can't wait to see Ichiro slap Gag-me around in the league chapionship series. If the Sox even make it to the playoffs. Smells like 78' to me.

Talk about a jab, and a pathetic lame one at that.

You talk about the playoffs like they are some foregone conclusion, which is an interesting belief considering that Baseball Prospectus gives them a 36% chance of making the playoffs (the Red Sox are at 99%, by the way). And those games they missed, you do understand what it means for the final six weeks of the season, right? The M's have only two days off left. The Red Sox have four, as do the Tigers, and the Yankees and Angels have three. Good luck with that.

Its going to take a minor miracle for your team to hold off the Yankees.

[Dan Gould]

And by the way, your bullpen isn't even close to the Red Sox.

According to Baseball-Reference.com, the Mariners bullpen has an ERA of 3.81.

The Red Sox bullpen ERA is just 3.04.

The Mariners bullpen has allowed 334 hits and 164 walks in 368 2/3 innings for a WHIP of 1.35.

The Red Sox bullpen has allowed 289 hits and 132 walks in 337 1/3 innings for a WHIP of 1.25.

[Johnny E]

Come on Dan. In your heart of hearts, you know the Sox are gonna blow it. They had a 14 1/2 game lead, what? 8 weeks ago? Feels like 78' to me. Its going to take a minor miracle for your team to hold off the Yankees bro. 6 more game with the Yanks. You'll take two if you're lucky.

You know it's true. In your bones you know it's true.

[BERIGAN]

Admit it, you guys miss fighting each other over politics!!!