The Baseball Thread 2007

[Matthew]

You have to love the Moose. Coco Crash!

I know you don't seriously believe that the Mariner Moose is "innocent", do you Matthew? That man came within inches of seriously injuring or even potentially killing a player because he is racing around the stadium on an ATV, and its the player's fault for not watching out for him?? The idiot is lucky he wasn't pulled from the vehicle and pummeled, which he surely would have been if Coco had been hit.

Well, yeah, I can laugh at it now, but it would have been terrible if Coco got injured. Reminded me of Vince Coleman getting hit by the tarp in the World Series. If I had my way there would be no mascots, music, or any of the "entertainment" crap that you get at the stadiums now. The drawback of being an old geezer of 48 is that I remember when you went to a game without all the extras you have now. I miss those days...

[Dan Gould]

If I had my way there would be no mascots, music, or any of the "entertainment" crap that you get at the stadiums now. The drawback of being an old geezer of 48 is that I remember when you went to a game without all the extras you have now. I miss those days...

As a not quite so old geezer of 41, I totally agree.

[Tim McG]

Hm.

And Dan insists they booed Bonds in Petco Park when he hit #755 [in an empty stadium] and when he took the field afterward.

Didn't happen.

The sports media jackals just plain lied.

Now who are you going to believe: Sheffeld trying to cover his ass or Dan [you know, the guy who flies off the handle at every challenge, no matter how insignificant, to his "authority"] with a blind ax to grind or the reality of what really happened?

Time to get with it.

Consider the source.

Edited August 8, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Chalupa]

Ryan Howard smacked two more homers tonight. He's 2nd in the NL in HR and 1st in RBI. Not bad considering he spent two weeks on the DL.

[Big Al]

Hello all, greetings from Michigan, where I've been blissfully unaware of my Rangers until now when I could get to a computer at a local library.

And I see they stunk it up against the Jays, lost a heartbreaker Monday night, but got a good game from two of the newbies: Gabbard pitched solidly in his home debut, and Salty got a buncha RBI's. Oh I hope this means good things for the future!

Until I get home this weekend, be nice and keep the Bonds squabbling over on the "Bonds Squabbling" thread. Thank you!

[Tim McG]

Hard to dispute...yeah.

Right on.

PROVE it to me.

I think this guy may have a little more knowledge than you on the subject. Why anything needs to be proved to you...I'm not sure. Whether or not you believe he took steroids has no effect on whether he did or didn't.

m~

You still need proof.

Because a guy plays baseball does not make him an expert witness on steroid use...by anyone.

Geez, I'm sure glad none of you guys do police detective work. We'd be arresting people for crimes they could have committed and your eyewitness would be somebody who said they look like they possibly might be a criminal.

Edited August 9, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Aggie87]

Would you have the man-love you have for Bonds had he played his whole career in Minnesota? Or would you be like the majority of the U.S. population who believes he took steroids - whether it was illegal or not, it would still be violating the spirit of sportsmanship?

I think everyone else on this board sees you as a homer who's blind to Bonds' fatal flaw, merely because you live where you live and support the Giants.

[Tim McG]

Would you have the man-love you have for Bonds had he played his whole career in Minnesota? Or would you be like the majority of the U.S. population who believes he took steroids - whether it was illegal or not, it would still be violating the spirit of sportsmanship?

I think everyone else on this board sees you as a homer who's blind to Bonds' fatal flaw, merely because you live where you live and support the Giants.

Everyone?

Show me the poll.

Man-love...WTF? Is this the new baseless catch-phrase when somebody supports a particular athlete?

I think A-Rod is a tremendous talent and if he stays healthy, will be the next HR king. I believe Pete Rose needs to be in the HOF. I have always admired Ichiro Suzuki and his ability to get hits. I have nothing but admiration for Cal Ripken's success in the bigs. Carl Yazstremski was the greatest clutch hitter of all time. I've rooted for Mookie Wilson, Sammy Sosa, Roger Maris, Jim Fregosi, Bobby Grich, Doug DeCinces, Rollie Fingers, Dan Eckersley, Joe Rudy, Jimmy Piersal, Tony Gwynn, Boog Powell, Yogi Berra and the list goes on and on and on dating clear back to the early 60s and my first remembrances of baseball.

Do you think it as all possible that with the current topicality of Bonds and the HR record and the fact everybody is talking about it usurps the fact he plays for my favorite team just might have something at all to do with my mentioning his name so often? I mean...duh.

Maybe you need to rephrase the question, eh? There is a big giant clue here.

Edited August 9, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

I was thinking that the Diamondbacks can't maintain their winning ways due to their anomalous run differential of -30+. But this article in the Hardball Times suggests that there is ample precedent for teams to sustain such surprising results.

The Diamondbacks are wack.

I don't like to disagree with the great David Smith of Retrosheet, but there was something not quite right in this article about the Diamondbacks' record. You see, the Diamondbacks are doing something really wacky: They have a 63-51 record, despite being outscored by their opponents by 34 runs.

I went back in history (using the Retrosheet files, of course) to see how many teams had won 12 more games than they had lost at any point during a season, despite being outscored by at least 30 runs. I found four:

* On Sept. 20, 1997, the Giants were 86-70 despite being outscored by 34 runs.

* The 1984 Mets had a long string of days with a similar record: Most notably, on Sept. 13, they were 81-66 despite being outscored by 34 runs.

* On July 28, 1978, the Orioles were 57-44 despite being outscored by 42 runs.

* The 1917 St. Louis Cardinals were 75-63 on Sept. 11 despite scoring 41 fewer runs than their opponents.

In contrast, David noted that only the 1905 Tigers had a bigger Pythagorean variance than the Diamondbacks' current variance, but he only looked at season-ending totals. You get a different picture when you look at the progress of records during the season, primarily because it's easier to have a bigger winning percentage variance when fewer games have been played.

But it is a kick to see how each of these teams fared at season's end:

* The 1997 Giants finished 90-72 (10 games above their Pythagorean record) despite being outscored by their opponents 793-784.

* The Mets also finished 90-72 (12 games above their Pythagorean projection) despite being outscored 676-652.

* The 1978 Orioles finished 90-71 and actually wound up outscoring their opponents 659-633 (for a seven-game Pythagorean variance).

* The Cardinals finished 82-70 in 1917 (which projects to 87 wins over a 162-game schedule) and were outscored 567-531. They beat their Pythagorean record by 10 games.

So, every single team wound up closing the run differential gap (the difference between runs scored and runs allowed) and three of the four teams won 90 games. Seems like a reasonable projection for the Diamondbacks too.

Good news for D-Back fans, bad news for the rest of the NL West?

[Matthew]

The NL West looks terrible, in fact, the whole National League is looking bad right now, I mean the Cubs and Brewers fighting for first place -- Yikes! Maybe I'm just down on the NL now because for the last month I watched all of the Giants' games during my vacation in July. Now, that is one boring team, and props to Goodspeak for following that dull of a team -- Jack Daniels would be my tv buddy by the end of the season if I lived in the Bay Area. If it wasn't for Krup & Kip, those games would've been unwatchable.

[Dan Gould]

The NL West looks terrible, in fact, the whole National League is looking bad right now,

That is certainly true. I was checking the Coolstandings site and realized that not a single, solitary NL team is projected to win 90 games! Has that ever happened before?

I just checked Baseball Prospectus' Postseason Odds page and their simulation only has the Mets breaking 90 wins and all the other so-called "contenders" in the 85-87 win range.

Its one thing to have the odd Cardinal team or NL West winner coming in with a super low win total, but if it turns out that none of these teams can win 90 games (which is only a .555 winning percentage) then I'd have to say that parity has gone too far.

Or that the NL SUCKS.

[Chalupa]

Or that the NL SUCKS.

It definitely sucks.

Look at the Phils. They started out 4 and 14. They've had a TON of injuries this season(Garcia, Leiber are done. Utley has been on the DL for the past two weeks. Myers & Gordon both missed two months. Howard missed two weeks. Victorino and Bourne both on the DL) coupled w/ a pitching staff that has been downright horrible, save for Hamels, is one game out of the WC and 4 games out in the East.

What is going to piss me off is that they will probably miss out on the WC and finish w/ a better record than the winner of the NL Central for the second year in a row.

[Tim McG]

The NL West looks terrible, in fact, the whole National League is looking bad right now, I mean the Cubs and Brewers fighting for first place -- Yikes! Maybe I'm just down on the NL now because for the last month I watched all of the Giants' games during my vacation in July. Now, that is one boring team, and props to Goodspeak for following that dull of a team -- Jack Daniels would be my tv buddy by the end of the season if I lived in the Bay Area. If it wasn't for Krup & Kip, those games would've been unwatchable.

I support my guys...win, lose or draw. I am a fan since childhood.

And you're right.

The NL West is abysmal....but in spite of that fact:

DEATH to dodger Blue!

Edited August 10, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Patrick]

Meanwhile, what has happened to the Tigers and Indians? They've been so bad, that the Yanks are now 1/2 game out of the wild card. At this rate they may not even slow down the Yanks when they play later this month. I was really hoping for the Yanks to be out of the playoffs but at this rate, the wild card Yanks could face the Angels and the Sox could get the "winner" of the Central division - I'll take that since the Angels seem to have the Yanks number in playoff series. But I've never seen two decent teams play such a long series of "that's OK, you can have it" "No, I insist!" ever before.

It has in fact been a brutal month for the Tribe. Very little to be happy about, beyond still being in/near first in the Central (though this leads to thoughts that they should really have a huge division lead right now--similar thoughts in Tiger Nation I'm sure). Beginning of the year could make a strong case that the AL Central was the beast division, but with Minn and ChiSox not performing well, and now Cle and Det following a similar course...

What's bad: team is in a collective batting slump, even MVP candidate Victor Martinez wasn't getting hits. Hafner has been brutal most of the year, and now he has a knee injury. Sizemore has had a bit of surge, but should be batting better. Josh Barfield, while not being counted on to lead the offense, appears overmatched in the AL--hopefully he'll figure something out. Lots of errors (which one can live with if the offense is humming along). Borowski shaky as closer (been the case all year, and not a big surprise, but tough to stomach when little margin for error). Much of the rest of the pen has also been underwhelming. Fourth and fifth spots in the rotation should be open mike night. Team is about 1/3 of the way through a stretch that has 16 of 21 games on the road (5 home games are against NYY and Det).

What's good: Carmona and Sabathia, provided they don't sue for non-support, continue to pitch extremely well. Fausto goes against Hughes tonight, Sabathia throws next against Tigers. Paul Byrd continues to pitch well, if not spectacularly. Rafael relievers Betancourt and Perez have been solid (though Betancourt lost an 8th inning lead against Chisox before Borowski lost the regained lead again in extras...ugh) Kenny Lofton has added a slight lift to the offense. Jake Westbrook has put together a couple of quality starts--hopefully he is back on track (Was the Cliff Lee demotion a wakeup call of sorts?). Matchup lefty reliever Aaron Fultz has been activated. Cup of coffee rookie lefty Aaron Laffey beat Mark Buehrle Thursday night (...and then was sent down). Reports suggest that Jeremy Sowers and Cliff Lee are pitching well at Buffalo (though it doesn't appear that obvious to me). Team likely to go with 4 man rotation for a couple of weeks due to offdays.

And finally, Tribe signed Russel Branyan to a minor league contract. Some were suggesting that this means they have given up on Andy Marte as future third baseman. Not an unreasonable view to have about the underwhelming Marte (great glove, no bat), but completely crazy to think that Branyan is any type of answer. So Branyan's first game for Bisons is an 0-4 with 3 K's (ahhh, the Russell of old...). Phillies then acquire him from the Tribe for cash considerations. Why didn't Philly just sign the guy themselves? Branyan did pick up the tab for the postgame spread during his brief revisit to Buffalo...

[Dan Gould]

Well Patrick, I hope they straighten things out starting tonight, if only for three games.

I like the matchups especially with Westbrook having put together a couple of good starts since he got hammered by Boston. How do the Indians do in terms of wearing down starters by taking walks and extending at bats? The sooner they get into the soft underbelly of that bullpen, the better off they'll be.

We definitely need the Indians to have Carmona pitch well tonight, since the Sox get Bedard tonight. He was scheduled to go on Saturday but by moving him up, the Yanks won't miss him next week, so I am not really complaining. I just think we'd have a better shot if it was Beckett opposing him.

[Patrick]

I think Tribe does a pretty good job of taking walks--they spent quite a bit of time in the Chisox bullpen (and should have swept on the road). And as bad as Hafner has been, he's still a league leader in walks. After the 3 game series against NYY, Tribe will be done with both Bos and NYY for the regular season.

[Dan Gould]

What the hell have you given us, Al???

Gagne has yet to have a single, solitary scoreless inning since he joined the team, and last night he transformed what would have been a thrilling comeback win (down 1-0 to Bedard with two outs in the eighth, a team with terrible hitting in "close and late" situations pushes across 5 runs) into a fucking disastrous loss.

:excited:

[Patrick]

Yeah, I watched the end of Bos/Bal, and is Gagne the weak link in that excellent bullpen? On the one batter he did retire on a dribbler in front of the mound, he was fortunate that it was Millar huffin and puffin down the line (and the play was still close). Bedard and Dice K pitched well, though I think Dice K may have had only two 1-2-3 innings and quite a few walks.

Meanwhile the anemic Tribe offense turns Hughes into Cy Young. Carmona had a bad outing. ...At least the Tigers and Mariners also lost.

[Dan Gould]

Yeah, I watched the end of Bos/Bal, and is Gagne the weak link in that excellent bullpen? On the one batter he did retire on a dribbler in front of the mound, he was fortunate that it was Millar huffin and puffin down the line (and the play was still close). Bedard and Dice K pitched well, though I think Dice K may have had only two 1-2-3 innings and quite a few walks.

Meanwhile the anemic Tribe offense turns Hughes into Cy Young. Carmona had a bad outing. ...At least the Tigers and Mariners also lost.

Well Gagne certainly isn't supposed to be the weak link, he's supposed to lighten the load on Okajima and sub for Papelbon when necessary. But the fact is he was on a terrible streak before the trade and frankly I have to wonder about his physical state after playing so little for two seasons.

As for Carmona, I noticed that he has a very mediocre ERA in night games, nearly 5.00. Is that fluky or something to worry about if the Tribe makes the playoffs?

[Patrick]

No idea about the Carmona day/night splits, or how he performs in domes (which presumably are lit the same way day or night). If the Tribe makes it to the postseason, hopefully they'll play more than the customary one (or zero) day game in the first round.

[Big Al]

What the hell have you given us, Al???

Gagne has yet to have a single, solitary scoreless inning since he joined the team, and last night he transformed what would have been a thrilling comeback win (down 1-0 to Bedard with two outs in the eighth, a team with terrible hitting in "close and late" situations pushes across 5 runs) into a fucking disastrous loss.

:excited:

Last night at the hotel, I was watching ESPN and I didn't hear who was pitching during that late-inning debacle. You have my sympathies; usually the situation goes the other way: mediocre pitcher excels upon leaving the Rangers "organization." For your sake, I hope this situation rights itself in a hurry.

[BERIGAN]

What the hell have you given us, Al???

Gagne has yet to have a single, solitary scoreless inning since he joined the team, and last night he transformed what would have been a thrilling comeback win (down 1-0 to Bedard with two outs in the eighth, a team with terrible hitting in "close and late" situations pushes across 5 runs) into a fucking disastrous loss.

:excited:

Noted Red Sox apologist Steve Berthiaume was all over J.D. Drew's fielding of a ball(I think he was late jump on the ball???) did it look that way to you? I "Tivoed" that baseball tonight, but didn't get thru all of it...

[Dan Gould]

What the hell have you given us, Al???

Gagne has yet to have a single, solitary scoreless inning since he joined the team, and last night he transformed what would have been a thrilling comeback win (down 1-0 to Bedard with two outs in the eighth, a team with terrible hitting in "close and late" situations pushes across 5 runs) into a fucking disastrous loss.

:excited:

Noted Red Sox apologist Steve Berthiaume was all over J.D. Drew's fielding of a ball(I think he was late jump on the ball???) did it look that way to you? I "Tivoed" that baseball tonight, but didn't get thru all of it...

I didn't think he was late, the ball was dropping fast but with a three run lead he didn't just play the carom cleanly and went for it instead. Since it looked like he had a shot at catching it, the runner at second only would have advanced to third and it would have been first and third, 5-3.

So yeah, Drew takes some blame, too.

[Tim McG]

What the hell have you given us, Al???

Gagne has yet to have a single, solitary scoreless inning since he joined the team, and last night he transformed what would have been a thrilling comeback win (down 1-0 to Bedard with two outs in the eighth, a team with terrible hitting in "close and late" situations pushes across 5 runs) into a fucking disastrous loss.

:excited:

Gagne is juicing.

No way in hell he could throw 72 saves without being on steroids. Then he blew out his arm because the tendons couldn't hold the muscle mass. 'Roid rage is his middle name, fer crissakes.

I think we need to call in the Grand Jury for a full-scale shame investigation....sure hope he has an angry ex-girlfriend or a hat size change. That'll seal the deal.

Oh, I know! Maybe we can get one of those pretend reporters from the yellow journalism king, Hearst Corporation, to trump up some almost true charges! Yeah...that'll convince 'em!

Asterisk, bay-bee.

Edited August 12, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

What the hell have you given us, Al???

Gagne has yet to have a single, solitary scoreless inning since he joined the team, and last night he transformed what would have been a thrilling comeback win (down 1-0 to Bedard with two outs in the eighth, a team with terrible hitting in "close and late" situations pushes across 5 runs) into a fucking disastrous loss.

:excited:

Gagne is juicing.

No way in hell he could throw 72 saves without being on steroids. Then he blew out his arm because the tendons couldn't hold the muscle mass. 'Roid rage is his middle name, fer crissakes.

I think we need to call in the Grand Jury for a full-scale shame investigation....sure hope he has an angry ex-girlfriend or a hat size change. That'll seal the deal.

Oh, I know! Maybe we can get one of those pretend reporters from the yellow journalism king, Hearst Corporation, to trump up some almost true charges! Yeah...that'll convince 'em!

Asterisk, bay-bee.

Oh...no wait!

Gagne is white.

Damn.

What was I thinking?

Carry on.

Edited August 12, 2007 by GoodSpeak