The Baseball Thread 2007

[Patrick]

Thome is definitely a class player--still much-loved in Cleveland despite playing for the division foes in Chicago. Got a much warmer welcome back reception than other all-star sluggers pursuing dollars elsewhere (like Manny and Belle). I didn't follow him too closely in Philly, but in Cleveland he would sit there and talk to every single reporter, through good times and bad--no racing to get out of the clubhouse before the media arrived. He married a Cleveland tv reporter, and I think he still lives there in the offseason. Originally from Peoria, IL, he must be happy now to be playing close to his boyhood home (though I think his dream was Wrigley rather than Comiskey). Too bad he has had some health problems.

[donald byrd 4 EVA]

jim thome rules

[BERIGAN]

Hey Big Al, I applaud the efforts and encourage them to continue. It takes a village.

How's Kevin Millwood? 2-6 7.82 ERA. ouch! Is he hurt, or just cashing checks now?

Like Millwood (though at the other end of the rotation), Scott Elarton is another pitcher that passed through Cleveland, had a good year, and appears to have gotten overpaid elsewhere (8.54 ERA in KC). And it looks like Bob Wickman is up to his old tricks of putting out fire with gasoline...

Hey now!!!! Wickman has been very good since coming over last year. It's just that Bobby Cox is turning into a complete idiot this days. It looks like we are going to have quite the June swoon again.

Cox rode Wickman hard, and put him in two of three games against the Rockies, where his pitches were doing a whole lot of nothing. Next thing you knew, he was on the DL with back issues. Ok, fast forward a few weeks. Rafael Soriano, who we completely stole from the Mariners is amazing, giving up only 11 hits in 28 innings, has had several saves while "Wicky" was out, then Mike Gonzalez, who we got for Adam LaRoche had Tommy John surgery. So, it looked like it might make sense to keep using a guy that throws 98 MPH for strikes as the main guy, but we didn't. I actually understood this, It worked just fine for Detroit to have a soft tosser after the flame throwers, BUT you have to pick your spots. Soriano came in during the 8th, with a 2-0 lead, got two outs, and did it so convincingly, you'd think Cox would let me take care of the 9th in another building where Wickman hadn't always had a lot of success. But, no lets send him out there and lets send him out there with our super switch hitting catching prospect Jarrod Saltalamacchia(Forever more known as Salty, ok?) playing his very first full game at first base! Nah, no sense taking him out and putting the guy(Scott Thorman) who has been at first base all season in, besides, Salty's the backup catcher because worthless middle infielders Pete Orr and Chris Woodward have photos of Bobby having sex with a yak(allegedly;) ) So, no 3rd catcher, even though you want to give the kid a chance to play somewhere, anywhere!!!

Oh, I could go on about the stupidity of leaving Andruw Jones in cleanup with a .215 average, or the fact that Andruw and "Frenchy" have played every game (Great, we only have 4 outfielders total, 2 catchers, and 3 backup infielders!)

But, back to the game! So, Wickman comes in, and not only do we have Salty playing in the 9th, but so is rookie 3rd baseman(really a SS) Yunel Escobar! And no one tells him, or motions him to guard the lines!(Classic Cox ball is to NOT guard the lines late in the game, burned us at least once during the playoffs-but, Cox doesn't exactly learn from mistakes) so, a left handed hitter Castillo bounces a ball to his left(gotta love astroturf-which no one has in the NL these days) for a single down the line, another bouncer finds salty-he stops it with his chest, but couldn't do anything else with it. Then Cuddyer tripled past Escobar(Who really is a good fielder-but ain't near the line, again!) one run is in. 2-1 game. Wicky gets Torii Hunter to pound the ball into the ground, but it takes one of those lovly astro turf hops, Escobar backs up, the runner tries to score from 3rd, and he has to throw over the head of the runner, and the formally good catcher McCann can't get 1 inch off the ground to catch the ball, but makes a nice tag on the Cuddyer, so nice the ump calls him out, but the ball has gone back to the screen. Runners 2nd and 3rd, 1 out. Then, Redmon singles, Twins, win. So, if you just see the boxscore, you see Wickman gave up 4 hits. It was all his fault you'd think, but it wasn't. His manager, who between playing, coaching, and managing, has probably watched games for 45 years, didn't put him in a very good position to win with raw rookies and 1st and 3rd, and not telling the coaches to have the players guard the mother-fucking line!!!!

Shit, and I sometimes defend Cox,but there is no way a team will ever win a WS with him in charge again. He is great with players, they will run thru walls for him, play hurt, whathaveyou, but he just doesn't think much anymore.......Soriano should close in situations like last night, 2-0 in a park like that one....

[Patrick]

Thanks for the thorough commentary--fun to read. I feel the pain. Wickman definitely is not striking out too many guys now, so he needs the gloves behind him, and (at least during his time in Cleveland), he needs the tying run in scoring position--he'll put that guy on himself if he has to. He also cannot be run out there every night. I was a bit surprised that he came back for another season or two--maybe the NL is rejuvenating for old pitchers. Any chance Soriano is the longterm solution?

[Patrick]

Sabathia left in a little too long against the Braves...ugh...

[Dan Gould]

Very funny video clip of Roger Clemens offering his services to the New York Yankees in 2057 here.

[Chalupa]

12.00

[BERIGAN]

Thanks for the thorough commentary--fun to read. I feel the pain. Wickman definitely is not striking out too many guys now, so he needs the gloves behind him, and (at least during his time in Cleveland), he needs the tying run in scoring position--he'll put that guy on himself if he has to. He also cannot be run out there every night. I was a bit surprised that he came back for another season or two--maybe the NL is rejuvenating for old pitchers. Any chance Soriano is the longterm solution?

Patrick, glad it was fun for you, just made me mad again! Funny thing, last night Cox had the 3rd baseman on the line late, and the Thorman on 1st for the 9th! Like Dan says about the Sox, you hate to lose games that were all but won, or that Cox and Francona seem quite content to just win 2 out of 3 and put scrubs out there for getaway day, or whathaveyou. Cox has blown about 5-6 games leaving starters in too long, or using Wickman and other relievers 3 nights in a row...and every time we face a lefty(and I don't know whats going on this year, but we have faced perhaps 40% lefty starters this year!) wanting to Bench McCann, Scott Thorman or Kelly Johnson for Woodward or Pete Orr. Orr and Woodward are next to useless, yet Woodward is on a pace to get 250 AB's!

Hopefully, Cox will get over his love for at least one of them and at least make Escobar the main backup infielder/right handed bat off the bench. Really, he should play regularly, but no place for him right now. Hey Dan, want our current shortstop????

As for Soriano, except for last night, he has been unbelievable. I mean something like a hit every 3rd inning he allows? Great guy to have pitch the 8th..for now. He will be a great closer for us. Still don't know how Seattle traded him for the often injured Horatio Ramirez. "HoRam" can be very good, but as usual is injured.

EDIT. Saw I said Woodward was on pace to get 20 AB's meant 250!

Edited June 17, 2007 by BERIGAN

[BERIGAN]

Oh, and Andruw Jones is hitting .215 for the season, but has played in every game and is STILL batting clean-up! No need to rest him, or bat him lower in the order!(I think he batting 5th once and 6th twice)

Edited June 16, 2007 by BERIGAN

[Big Al]

Very funny video clip of Roger Clemens offering his services to the New York Yankees in 2057 here.

HAH!!! That was great! But I couldn't help but think that could very well be the Rangers in 2057.... except they would be BEGGING Clemens to pitch for them!

[bluesForBartok]

Anyone see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woKJX_gyrds? Classic Red "Sawx" bleacher creature.

[BERIGAN]

Anyone see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woKJX_gyrds? Classic Red "Sawx" bleacher creature.

He's pretty fuckin' funny!

Side note, can a Red Sox fan talk about their team without using the word fuck every fuckin' 5 words?

[Chalupa]

11.00

[Dan Gould]

Question for fans of the senior league:

Does anyone think that the Mets/Braves/Padres/Dodgers could possibly compete with the best of the AL?

I don't know what the results are so far in interleague play (I heard that the AL is kicking ass) but watching the Mets snore there way to another loss - the team most seemed to think have a strong chance to reach the World Series, I'm having a very hard time imagining any of these teams being worthy WS participants. The Dodgers and Padres can pitch but not hit, the Mets are starting to look very old (Delgado, El Duque, Glavine) and as Conrad has told us many times, the Braves aren't exactly the powerhouse they used to be.

I know its early, and trades could change things by the time the playoffs come around, but right now, I don't see how any of the NL "powerhouses" can compete with the Red Sox/Angels/Indians/Tigers/Yankees. They'd probably have trouble with the A's even.

[Patrick]

Some quick math suggests that the AL is 91-77 (.542) in interleague play this year. Only 4 AL teams (Bal, TB, CHW, Sea) have sub-.500 records against the NL. KC is 8-4.

[Soulstation1]

anyone see prince fielder's inside the park homer?

iirc his dad also hit an inside the park homer

[Chalupa]

9,990.

[Dan Gould]

Can anyone fucking believe that was the same Curt Schilling who almost threw a no-no against Oakland? Check out his stats in the games before and since and there is only one conclusion: it was a fluke. A complete and total fluke, and this man has NOTHING whatsoever left. He walks the 8th hitter to get to the pitcher and throws junk outside like he's fucking Barry Bonds??? What the fucking hell is his problem? 348 games with at least one strikeout, and the streak comes to an end. Can you be surprised, when he dials it up to 90 about three times all game?

Its one thing to be thrilled that he is not signed for next season, its something else to live in fear that he is the weakest link in the rotation and may ultimately be the reason if this season fails to live up to its early promise. What's a realistic over/under on his ERA? Its 4.20 now - and we haven't even reached the hot weather when balls start flying out of stadiums. It will be a miracle if his ERA is 4.5 and I fear it will end up being over 5.

If he has any pride left at all, by the end of the season he will announce that he cannot compete at this level anymore and will retire rather than embarrass himself further next season. We'll see if he approves what I promise will be a blistering post to his blog when he puts up whatever crap he writes about his pathetic, sorry ass.

[Quincy]

Can anyone fucking believe that was the same Curt Schilling who almost threw a no-no against Oakland? Check out his stats in the games before and since and there is only one conclusion: it was a fluke. A complete and total fluke, and this man has NOTHING whatsoever left.

String him up by his bloody sock. Then in August we'll hang Manny by his jock strap!

Sheeesh, what have ya done for me lately? Yes, some duds in there, but also excellent games.

Started the season with 2 games going 7 innings each, 1 R & 2 R given up. 10 K to 2 BB combined between the 2 games. Those are "quality" quality starts. Early April games & stats count too.

Cleveland - 7 innings, 1 R, 0 BB, 10 K. Cleveland does not suck, 'specially on offense.

He didn't have it against the Tigers, yet despite 8 hits + 4 BB in 6 innings he allowed only 2 runs. Ugly as hell, but only 2 runs against another very good team.

No, at 41 he's not the stud he once was. But man, given that you didn't hang Beckett from the tallest tree during last year, maybe cut the guy a little slack. Pitchers aren't machines. Be grateful you have a guy known for a bloody sock and not a fatigued groin.

[Dan Gould]

Can anyone fucking believe that was the same Curt Schilling who almost threw a no-no against Oakland? Check out his stats in the games before and since and there is only one conclusion: it was a fluke. A complete and total fluke, and this man has NOTHING whatsoever left.

String him up by his bloody sock. Then in August we'll hang Manny by his jock strap!

Sheeesh, what have ya done for me lately? Yes, some duds in there, but also excellent games.

Started the season with 2 games going 7 innings each, 1 R & 2 R given up. 10 K to 2 BB combined between the 2 games. Those are "quality" quality starts. Early April games & stats count too.

Cleveland - 7 innings, 1 R, 0 BB, 10 K. Cleveland does not suck, 'specially on offense.

He didn't have it against the Tigers, yet despite 8 hits + 4 BB in 6 innings he allowed only 2 runs. Ugly as hell, but only 2 runs against another very good team.

No, at 41 he's not the stud he once was. But man, given that you didn't hang Beckett from the tallest tree during last year, maybe cut the guy a little slack. Pitchers aren't machines. Be grateful you have a guy known for a bloody sock and not a fatigued groin.

He could barely crack 90 with his fastball - and wouldn't even use it in a critical spot against the opponent's pitcher.

Last year, his ERA was 4.74 and 5.22 in July and August. The only reason he kept his season ERA under 4 was that he had "banked" so many good starts before then that on the same day, June 18 2006, he beat Atlanta and lowered his ERA to 3.55, three quarters of a run lower than it stands today. Look at his starts this season and his decline is unmistakeable. I don't deny that he will have his good and his bad days, but its obvious that he now has more bad days than good days and on top of that, the natural trend is to get worse as the summer warms up. A 5.00 ERA is inevitable, in my opinion, and it ought to shame him into announcing his retirement.

And as far as bloody socks go, I will always appreciate and respect what he did that year. But yes, its a what have you done for me lately game - that's why Theo didn't jump at the chance to sign him for next season.

[Dan Gould]

And no, he didn't start the season with two strong games. He actually embarassed himself by lasting four innings in KC and allowing five runs on 8 hits.

Let me put it as succinctly as possible. Curt Schilling without a mid-90s fastball is not a comfortable sight. He's come to look like Tom Glavine - if he's not perfect, he gets hammered.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I went to my first Sox game, in what turned out to be 18 years, last Wednesday. Curt slide down that Rockies mountain and looked eggs-ackley as Dan says. The whole game was ugly as a sausage vendor.

I take full responsibility for bringing on thiis slump and apologize.

[Dan Gould]

I went to my first Sox game, in what turned out to be 18 years, last Wednesday. Curt slide down that Rockies mountain and looked eggs-ackley as Dan says. The whole game was ugly as a sausage vendor.

I take full responsibility for bringing on thiis slump and apologize.

As plausible as that sounds, I am guessing that he actually has an injury that he won't quite acknowledge. He gave an interesting non-answer to that question last night:

Asked if the results could be attributed to a health issue, the pitcher answered, “It’s not just one thing right now.”

“I struggled,” Schilling added. “These last two starts have been just terrible. I’m better than that. It’s just frustrating.”

There was no "I'm not hurt, I'm just struggling right now" statement. My guess is that he will blow up a couple of more games and then go on the DL. At least that means that Lester will finally get his chance.

Here's another thing to worry about with the Red Sox senior citizen pitching staff. Do they have the guts to recognize that Mike Timlin truly has nothing left and at some point decide to designate him for assignment? I am afraid that they'll never do that to the "dean" of the bullpen and instead he will forever take up a roster spot much better filled by one of the kids at Pawtucket like Hansack or Breslow. The only hope to get him out of there is another stint on the DL for General Crapitude, AKA "elbow tendinitis".

[jlhoots]

anyone see prince fielder's inside the park homer?

iirc his dad also hit an inside the park homer

I did.

He was really "motoring".

BTW, another save for Cordero last night.

Brewers lead division by 7 games.

[Quincy]

And as far as bloody socks go, I will always appreciate and respect what he did that year. But yes, its a what have you done for me lately game - that's why Theo didn't jump at the chance to sign him for next season.

I had the Yahoo game log just reflecting games thru April 25 so I missed earlier ones. Oopsie, forgot about KC. Too cold, too hot, it's not easy being an old pitcher!

I don't know if there is a "natural trend" for him to get worse as the weather heats up. There wasn't in 2004, and in 2002 his best months were July & August. Lifetime his best month is August. Sure all that reflects a younger guy....

I wouldn't have signed resigned him at the start of the season either, but then older players scare me too. And it wouldn't surprise if he is hurt, or just not as effective. Actually, I think he's damn foolish to have a blog where he reveals strategy (unless he's putting out disinformation.) Maddux gives away nothing, though he rightfully acknowledges with his lack of heat he can't be sharing his thoughts with the reporters.

I just don't get the venom in your post. If it had just been full of worry I wouldn't have responded. Time will tell if the lack of heat is over after bad couple of outings (say, due to the old "turned over in the night and slept on the pitching arm"), injury or age. Like you say, if he goes on the DL, you get to see Lester. While you'd have rather seen him replace Tavarez, at least Lester may get a shot out of this.

As far as Timlim, jump all over that m$#!^*f#@$!r! (Bitter Mariner memories, calmly filed away in the back of the brain resurface at the mention of his name.)