The Baseball Thread 2007

[Tim McG]

Oh, and Go Padres!!!

[donald byrd 4 EVA]

hell yeah goodspeak!

[Quincy]

Clay Bucholz is 3 outs from a NO-NO.......this kid looks impressive Dan. I would keep him in rotation and

get tavarez back to the pen !

Not a chance that it happens. He's thrown 140 innings, and like most intelligent organizations, they keep a tight rein on how many innings a young pitcher pitches.

I don't know, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz all pitched more innings at 22, and no permanent damage in the lot to show for it. Of course old-timers like Carlton, Kaat pitched more too (and I stopped looking at that point, since we all know modern pitchers are sissies. )

But yeah, it depends what he's used to I guess, and all that involves coddling the modern pitcher. And there will be playoff innings too, something the young Braves didn't face back then, nor Maddux (though very soon for all.) Sometimes moving kid starters to the pen can mess 'em up too. Young pitchers - they're like high-maintenance women!

[Dan Gould]

Clay Bucholz is 3 outs from a NO-NO.......this kid looks impressive Dan. I would keep him in rotation and

get tavarez back to the pen !

Not a chance that it happens. He's thrown 140 innings, and like most intelligent organizations, they keep a tight rein on how many innings a young pitcher pitches.

I don't know, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz all pitched more innings at 22, and no permanent damage in the lot to show for it. Of course old-timers like Carlton, Kaat pitched more too (and I stopped looking at that point, since we all know modern pitchers are sissies. )

But yeah, it depends what he's used to I guess, and all that involves coddling the modern pitcher. And there will be playoff innings too, something the young Braves didn't face back then, nor Maddux (though very soon for all.) Sometimes moving kid starters to the pen can mess 'em up too. Young pitchers - they're like high-maintenance women!

That last comment is spot on, but its also true that until last night, Clay hadn't thrown more than 7 innings or 90-something pitches - ever. Personally I think they'll use him in the pen under a sort of modified "Joba Rules" set up. They'll bring him in for 2 innings at a time, once or twice a week, and mostly keep him in the back pocket for any doubleheaders that may come up with a rain out. If Tavarez has to pitch, he'd be perfect to bring in around the fourth inning (Tavarez has great numbers the first time through a lineup, worse numbers the second and positively awful numbers the third time)

[Quincy]

That last comment is spot on, but its also true that until last night, Clay hadn't thrown more than 7 innings or 90-something pitches - ever.

Not even against a Pitchback with a tennis ball when he was 11? Boy that is something.

Well you've got a mighty nice pitching problem to have, trying to figure out what to do with good arms, I tell you what.

Regarding the M's losing streak, it feels like that little-boy-enthusiastic-fan-with-the-sense-of-wonder that I had inside of me for the past month has like a balloon been utterly deflated. Oh I know it's not over, but it's been tough to go from 1 game back of the Angels to this in a week. For weeks the stat-knowing brain knew that they shouldn't be winning like they have been, but it was getting to be "You Gotta Believe" and all those other underdog kind of teams baseball throws at you every so often. That feeling is gone, unless they're just trying to create more adversity to make the ultimate victory all the more unbelievable. (STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!, they'll rip yer heart out man, try to be logical about this.)

[Matthew]

If Felix Hernandez doesn't come up big today against that jerk Clemens, I'm going to be one majorly pissed-off Mariner fan. You've been warned "King Felix".....

Edited September 3, 2007 by Matthew

[Dan Gould]

If Felix Hernandez doesn't come up big today against that jerk Clemens, I'm going to be one majorly pissed-off Mariner fan. You've been warned "King Felix".....

Clemens has elbow inflammation and blisters on his push-off foot. He's due to get whipped, just as the M's bats are due to wake up. Then you've got two lefties against a team that scuffles against them. I see a sweep! Go Mariners!

[Matthew]

If Felix Hernandez doesn't come up big today against that jerk Clemens, I'm going to be one majorly pissed-off Mariner fan. You've been warned "King Felix".....

Clemens has elbow inflammation and blisters on his push-off foot. He's due to get whipped, just as the M's bats are due to wake up. Then you've got two lefties against a team that scuffles against them. I see a sweep! Go Mariners!

The other good side of a below par Clemens is if Clemens can't go, the replacement is Mussina. I just don't see how the Mariners can lose today -- so that means they'll probably get blown out 11-0. Baseball, what a game....

[Dan Gould]

If Felix Hernandez doesn't come up big today against that jerk Clemens, I'm going to be one majorly pissed-off Mariner fan. You've been warned "King Felix".....

Clemens has elbow inflammation and blisters on his push-off foot. He's due to get whipped, just as the M's bats are due to wake up. Then you've got two lefties against a team that scuffles against them. I see a sweep! Go Mariners!

The other good side of a below par Clemens is if Clemens can't go, the replacement is Mussina. I just don't see how the Mariners can lose today -- so that means they'll probably get blown out 11-0. Baseball, what a game....

I don't want to jinx it, Matthew but its going perfectly to plan - Clemens out, Mussina in, and King Felix doing the job. 6-1 through six.

[Matthew]

If Felix Hernandez doesn't come up big today against that jerk Clemens, I'm going to be one majorly pissed-off Mariner fan. You've been warned "King Felix".....

Clemens has elbow inflammation and blisters on his push-off foot. He's due to get whipped, just as the M's bats are due to wake up. Then you've got two lefties against a team that scuffles against them. I see a sweep! Go Mariners!

The other good side of a below par Clemens is if Clemens can't go, the replacement is Mussina. I just don't see how the Mariners can lose today -- so that means they'll probably get blown out 11-0. Baseball, what a game....

I don't want to jinx it, Matthew but its going perfectly to plan - Clemens out, Mussina in, and King Felix doing the job. 6-1 through six.

We'll see if the bullpen can hold on for the last two innings....

[Matthew]

Easy win today, about time the Mariners got a w. Maybe even a sweep.....

[Tim McG]

Easy win today, about time the Mariners got a w. Maybe even a sweep.....

Cool

Go M's!

[Dan Gould]

I am wondering if anyone knows what is the biggest scoring inning a winning team has allowed? I ask cuz the Red Sox broke out on top of the Jays 10-1, with Dice-K sailing along into the sixth inning, where the wheels came off. The Jays sent 11 men to the plate and scored 8 times to close to 10-9. Fortunately they've scored three more in the bottom of the sixth to extend the lead back to four, but I don't think I've ever seen such a huge inning come in (potentially) a losing effort.

Off hand though I do recall the crazy game the Cubs had against the Phils in the late 70s or early 80s. Iirc, the final was something like 22-20, with Schmidt hitting four homers, maybe Dave Kingman hitting three. Wouldn't surprise me if the losing team in that game had a super high scoring inning like the Jays have.

I gotta say its nice that the team is scoring runs in Manny's absence, contrary to my presumption.

[Tim McG]

Angels scored 12 runs in the 9th to win a game they were losing back in the 80s, I believe.

BoSox scored 18 runs in one inning back in 1953.

Edited September 4, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

No 10 run Rule in this league.

[Dan Gould]

I'm referring to huge innings in a losing effort.

[Dan Gould]

Hey Matthew, Ramirez may have an ERA over 6 this season, but he has been lights out against the Yanks: 2 wins, 12 hits in 14 innings with a 0.68 ERA! They'll have their hands full with Wang who is 5-0, 2.78 against the M's.

Then again, like Clemens, he's due for a bad start, too. Go M's!

[Quincy]

Off hand though I do recall the crazy game the Cubs had against the Phils in the late 70s or early 80s. Iirc, the final was something like 22-20, with Schmidt hitting four homers, maybe Dave Kingman hitting three. Wouldn't surprise me if the losing team in that game had a super high scoring inning like the Jays have.

In that one (5-17-79) the Phils "let" the Cubs score 7 in the 5th when they were up 21-9. Tug McGraw entered the game in the 5th! He was terrible that year (this game didn't help ) , but still led the team in saves.

Info above provided by Retrosheet.

[Dan Gould]

Off hand though I do recall the crazy game the Cubs had against the Phils in the late 70s or early 80s. Iirc, the final was something like 22-20, with Schmidt hitting four homers, maybe Dave Kingman hitting three. Wouldn't surprise me if the losing team in that game had a super high scoring inning like the Jays have.

In that one (5-17-79) the Phils "let" the Cubs score 7 in the 5th when they were up 21-9. Tug McGraw entered the game in the 5th! He was terrible that year (this game didn't help ) , but still led the team in saves.

Info above provided by Retrosheet.

Thanks for the link, Eric, turns out that Schmidt only had two homers (but the second one won the game).

[Matthew]

Hey Matthew, Ramirez may have an ERA over 6 this season, but he has been lights out against the Yanks: 2 wins, 12 hits in 14 innings with a 0.68 ERA! They'll have their hands full with Wang who is 5-0, 2.78 against the M's.

Then again, like Clemens, he's due for a bad start, too. Go M's!

Not quite as sanguine about Ramirez vs. Wang, but a sweep would be very nice indeed, but taking two of three would be just as good. Taht would leave the Mariners coming out of NY only a game behind in the Wild Card.

[Dan Gould]

Hey Matthew, Ramirez may have an ERA over 6 this season, but he has been lights out against the Yanks: 2 wins, 12 hits in 14 innings with a 0.68 ERA! They'll have their hands full with Wang who is 5-0, 2.78 against the M's.

Then again, like Clemens, he's due for a bad start, too. Go M's!

Not quite as sanguine about Ramirez vs. Wang, but a sweep would be very nice indeed, but taking two of three would be just as good. Taht would leave the Mariners coming out of NY only a game behind in the Wild Card.

Well, I think you need to make a statement and come out of there with the lead but on the plus side, after Wednesday, the Yankees will have just 7 games left at home and 15 on the road, and they are under .500 away from the Bronx. That should help the M's provided they make yet another big bounce back from an extended losing streak.

I have to say it would be funny if Steve Phillips ends up being right. Some idiot on Foxsports.com, Kevin Hench, was actually stupid enough to refer to him as "Steve 'Zambrano for Kazmir' Phillips". Amazing that it slipped past the editor considering that Phillips had been gone from the Mets organization for like a year and a half before that trade was made.

[Matthew]

Hey Matthew, Ramirez may have an ERA over 6 this season, but he has been lights out against the Yanks: 2 wins, 12 hits in 14 innings with a 0.68 ERA! They'll have their hands full with Wang who is 5-0, 2.78 against the M's.

Then again, like Clemens, he's due for a bad start, too. Go M's!

Not quite as sanguine about Ramirez vs. Wang, but a sweep would be very nice indeed, but taking two of three would be just as good. Taht would leave the Mariners coming out of NY only a game behind in the Wild Card.

Well, I think you need to make a statement and come out of there with the lead but on the plus side, after Wednesday, the Yankees will have just 7 games left at home and 15 on the road, and they are under .500 away from the Bronx. That should help the M's provided they make yet another big bounce back from an extended losing streak.

I have to say it would be funny if Steve Phillips ends up being right. Some idiot on Foxsports.com, Kevin Hench, was actually stupid enough to refer to him as "Steve 'Zambrano for Kazmir' Phillips". Amazing that it slipped past the editor considering that Phillips had been gone from the Mets organization for like a year and a half before that trade was made.

I agree that the Yankees are in trouble right now. Their pitching continues to stink, and ARod seems to have cooled off recently. Sounds like Clemens will be gone for awhile, and Mussina looked terrible yesterday, had nothing on any of his pitches. Added to all this is the fact that George Steinbrenner seems to be slipping into Alzheimer's (if the rumors are true), it's just not looking good for the Yanks this year.

[Chalupa]

Off hand though I do recall the crazy game the Cubs had against the Phils in the late 70s or early 80s. Iirc, the final was something like 22-20, with Schmidt hitting four homers, maybe Dave Kingman hitting three. Wouldn't surprise me if the losing team in that game had a super high scoring inning like the Jays have.

In that one (5-17-79) the Phils "let" the Cubs score 7 in the 5th when they were up 21-9. Tug McGraw entered the game in the 5th! He was terrible that year (this game didn't help ) , but still led the team in saves.

Info above provided by Retrosheet.

Thanks for the link, Eric, turns out that Schmidt only had two homers (but the second one won the game).

Schmidt did hit 4 homers in one game against the Cubs at Wrigley on 4/17/1976. Final score was Phillies 18, Cubs 16. Maybe you were remembering this game?

http://baseball-almanac.com/boxscore/04171976.shtml

Edited September 4, 2007 by J.H. Deeley

[Dan Gould]

Off hand though I do recall the crazy game the Cubs had against the Phils in the late 70s or early 80s. Iirc, the final was something like 22-20, with Schmidt hitting four homers, maybe Dave Kingman hitting three. Wouldn't surprise me if the losing team in that game had a super high scoring inning like the Jays have.

In that one (5-17-79) the Phils "let" the Cubs score 7 in the 5th when they were up 21-9. Tug McGraw entered the game in the 5th! He was terrible that year (this game didn't help ) , but still led the team in saves.

Info above provided by Retrosheet.

Thanks for the link, Eric, turns out that Schmidt only had two homers (but the second one won the game).

Schmidt did hit 4 homers in one game against the Cubs at Wrigley on 4/17/1976. Final score was Phillies 18, Cubs 16. Maybe you were remembering this game?

http://baseball-almanac.com/boxscore/04171976.shtml

I probably had both lurking in the recesses of my mind ... some impressive stats from that game:

Steve Carlton, in a season he went 20-7, couldn't get out of the second inning and gave up 7 runs, all earned.

The Cubs led after 4, 13-2.

Rick Reuschel lasted seven innings and left with a five run lead (a score like that, you don't figure the starter would last that long!)

[Quincy]

I probably had both lurking in the recesses of my mind ... some impressive stats from that game:

Steve Carlton, in a season he went 20-7, couldn't get out of the second inning and gave up 7 runs, all earned.

The Cubs led after 4, 13-2.

Rick Reuschel lasted seven innings and left with a five run lead (a score like that, you don't figure the starter would last that long!)

I've combined those 2 games from time to time myself. "The game is never over when the wind is blowing out at Wrigley."

While we don't yet if Clemens' career is over due to an elbow tear, Nolan Ryan's elbow tore in a game against the Mariners as well when he was 1 year older than Roger. <Cue Twilight Zone theme.>

Oh yeah, as Soulstation never answered the question, "The Whale," aka Rick "The Pride of Camp Point, IL" Reuschel is one of the 2 pitchers who gave up home runs to Hank Aaron and He-Who-Shall-Remain-Nameless-As-He-Has-His-Own-Special-Thread.