The Baseball Thread 2007

[Matthew]

Crap! Gabbard left the game with stiffness in his forearm after only pitching 1-1/3 innings.

After watching Gagne blow two games in one weekend and watching him give up more runs in a handful of appearances for the Sox than he gave up all season for Texas, I say it serves you right. :excited:

Hay Dan, wouldn't be so funny if the Mariners beat out the Red Sox for the wild card? :excited:

[ghost of miles]

Yanks within 4 of the Bosox and essentially tied for the wild-card?

I'd still bet on Boston to take the divison, but it's getting mighty interesting...

[Big Al]

Crap! Gabbard left the game with stiffness in his forearm after only pitching 1-1/3 innings.

After watching Gagne blow two games in one weekend and watching him give up more runs in a handful of appearances for the Sox than he gave up all season for Texas, I say it serves you right. :excited:

:P :P :P

Edited August 13, 2007 by Big Al

[Patrick]

Gut check time for Cleveland, eh Patrick?

Indeed. 5 of next 8 are against Detroit--the most important games left on their schedule (Following this, teams meet just one more time in mid-September). Sabathia and Carmona are starting tonight and tomorrow. Tigers will get Carmona a second time, but not Sabathia.

Brutal against the Yanks. A-Rod has had their number all season. Yesterday's was perhaps the toughest to deal with. Westbrook did not pitch well (though it has been much worse), but the Tribe got to Rivera in the ninth. Trailing by 3, the bottom of the order starts the inning goes single, single, double [Gagne-like? ], so its second and third, a run in, no out. With the tying run in scoring position, Cabrera (recent callup) and Sizemore strike out. Blake (why is he batting second??) flies out to end the game. A couple of reasonably deep fly balls or even a single likely would have tied it, but no. Just six runs scored in the three game series (against Hughes, Mussina, Pettite). Tribe bats appear to slumber their way out of the postseason.

[Dan Gould]

Crap! Gabbard left the game with stiffness in his forearm after only pitching 1-1/3 innings.

After watching Gagne blow two games in one weekend and watching him give up more runs in a handful of appearances for the Sox than he gave up all season for Texas, I say it serves you right. :excited:

Hay Dan, wouldn't be so funny if the Mariners beat out the Red Sox for the wild card? :excited:

Please.

I'm trying to deal with the likelihood that the Red Sox will be looking up at the Yankees by the time they visit the Bronx on August 28th.

[MartyJazz]

Crap! Gabbard left the game with stiffness in his forearm after only pitching 1-1/3 innings.

After watching Gagne blow two games in one weekend and watching him give up more runs in a handful of appearances for the Sox than he gave up all season for Texas, I say it serves you right. :excited:

Hay Dan, wouldn't be so funny if the Mariners beat out the Red Sox for the wild card? :excited:

Please.

I'm trying to deal with the likelihood that the Red Sox will be looking up at the Yankees by the time they visit the Bronx on August 28th.

C'mon, that's not all that likely. Give us another month at least.

Meanwhile, it looks like Damon has fast become the forgotten man. Melky has solidified the centerfield position for years to come. Plus, the fact that he and Cano have become inseparable means that the Yanks would be quite loathe to break 'em up even for a great starting pitcher which is what they really need. Hopefully Philip Hughes and perhaps Joba Chamberlain (beginning next season) can become that (or those) required commodity (ies).

Edited August 13, 2007 by MartyJazz

[Dan Gould]

Crap! Gabbard left the game with stiffness in his forearm after only pitching 1-1/3 innings.

After watching Gagne blow two games in one weekend and watching him give up more runs in a handful of appearances for the Sox than he gave up all season for Texas, I say it serves you right. :excited:

Hay Dan, wouldn't be so funny if the Mariners beat out the Red Sox for the wild card? :excited:

Please.

I'm trying to deal with the likelihood that the Red Sox will be looking up at the Yankees by the time they visit the Bronx on August 28th.

C'mon, that's not all that likely. Give us another month at least.

Meanwhile, it looks like Damon has fast become the forgotten man. Melky has solidified the centerfield position for years to come. Plus, the fact that he and Cano have become inseparable means that the Yanks would be quite loathe to break 'em up even for a great starting pitcher which is what they really need. Hopefully Philip Hughes and perhaps Joba Chamberlain (beginning next season) can become that (or those) required commodity (ies).

I wish it would take another month but that can only happen if the Angels and Tigers bring you back to Earth. I'm hoping the Tigers have turned it around with a rare series win this weekend but who knows ... its obvious the Yankees are facing the decent opponents at the best possible time.

The Yankees need to make a decision next season about Damon and Giambi. Damon's no-trade is limited, Giambi has a blanket clause. Both should be unmovable for their age/production/price but it doesn't make sense to keep both. I've heard that Damon isn't looking very good as a corner outfielder but I'd say that he needs to take a crash course at first base to make himself useful for next season, otherwise he is probably easier to move.

I don't think that Melky and Cano being pals has anything to do with them being untouchable. The fact that Hughes, Chamberlain and that other guy, Ian something or other (Kennedy?) will be ready for the rotation next year means that the Yankees have no need for a starting pitcher next year. You've got Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain and Ian Kennedy, with Moose under contract and Pettitte likely to return. That leaves the worst of the rookies as the sixth starter and absolutely no need to trade for someone else.

[zen archer]

The problem with the Red Sox is Theo Epstein has made some of the worst trades and decisions in

Red Sox history . The Arroyo trade for Wily Mo has to go down as the worst trade in Sox history.

His Man crush on Julio Lugo and the huge contract to Drew are Huge mistakes.

And once the season is over they will let Mike Lowell go , one of the best if not the best 3rd baseman in the AL.

Also remember it was Theo that said he would never had made the deal for Beckett??...what kind of moron

would say that.

Beckett and Lowell are the only reasons the Sox have a lead at this point.

And i don't wanna hear, but he got Schilling on Thanksgiving in 03 that was Lucchino who was told by Henry

to get the deal done !....Epstein was too green to accomplish that on his own ,but the red sox always

push him out to the front as part of their PR machine.

The Red Sox don't need to win the division or go to the playoffs , they are too busy broadcasting SOX APPEAL

a Dating game program that is filmed during games!!!!!.......a guy sits up in the right field stands while 3 different

women are quizzed by him on their likes and dislikes ???.....and then the crowd behind holds up signs with rating numbers for each woman.....all DURING A GAME ........thats what so funny the SOX management don't care about the game.

Gagne ? Gagne who ? all they care about is how many episodes of SOX APPEAL they can film to fill air time on NESN .

[Dan Gould]

The problem with the Red Sox is Theo Epstein has made some of the worst trades and decisions in

Red Sox history . The Arroyo trade for Wily Mo has to go down as the worst trade in Sox history.

His Man crush on Julio Lugo and the huge contract to Drew are Huge mistakes.

And once the season is over they will let Mike Lowell go , one of the best if not the best 3rd baseman in the AL.

Also remember it was Theo that said he would never had made the deal for Beckett??...what kind of moron

would say that.

Beckett and Lowell are the only reasons the Sox have a lead at this point.

And i don't wanna hear, but he got Schilling on Thanksgiving in 03 that was Lucchino who was told by Henry

to get the deal done !....Epstein was too green to accomplish that on his own ,but the red sox always

push him out to the front as part of their PR machine.

As far as Schilling goes, why was it that it was THEO who went to Thanksgiving dinner at Curt's house to convince him that he could succeed as a fly-ball pitcher at Fenway?

Have you taken a look at the way Arroyo has pitched this year? His WHIP is way up, and his ERA makes him league average. NL teams have figured him out the same way that AL teams had figured him out. I'm not saying that Wily Mo has done anything for us and he'll probably get released in the next couple of weeks, but Arroyo ain't doing shit for Cincinnati either.

As far as Lowell goes, I love the guy but let's keep in mind how he has always, until this season, faded terribly after the ASB. They're likely to wait on A-Rod before they decide to re-sign him.

And as for Lugo and Drew - how many more bust out seasons do you need to see from the Renteria's of this world to learn that you can't make judgements based on not even a full season's worth of games?

Are you even aware that Lugo is hitting .297 since July 1st?

And whatever Theo said about Beckett, it was his decision to give him an extension in the middle of last season.

Your anger at Theo is extremely misplaced.

[Tim McG]

Oh shock of shocks.

Giants lose again. Zito disappoints yet again.

Is there no end to the mediocrity?

Gaaa!

Mediocrity?

Your league is mediocre.

Your team is .001 percentage points away from being WORST in the league.

Keep dreaming of the day you attain "mediocrity".

Giants are definately the bottom feeders of the NL, no doubt....but I seem to remember the Red Birds winning the 2006 World Series.

Percentage points don't mean diddly.

Edited August 13, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[zen archer]

The problem with the Red Sox is Theo Epstein has made some of the worst trades and decisions in

Red Sox history . The Arroyo trade for Wily Mo has to go down as the worst trade in Sox history.

His Man crush on Julio Lugo and the huge contract to Drew are Huge mistakes.

And once the season is over they will let Mike Lowell go , one of the best if not the best 3rd baseman in the AL.

Also remember it was Theo that said he would never had made the deal for Beckett??...what kind of moron

would say that.

Beckett and Lowell are the only reasons the Sox have a lead at this point.

And i don't wanna hear, but he got Schilling on Thanksgiving in 03 that was Lucchino who was told by Henry

to get the deal done !....Epstein was too green to accomplish that on his own ,but the red sox always

push him out to the front as part of their PR machine.

As far as Schilling goes, why was it that it was THEO who went to Thanksgiving dinner at Curt's house to convince him that he could succeed as a fly-ball pitcher at Fenway?

Have you taken a look at the way Arroyo has pitched this year? His WHIP is way up, and his ERA makes him league average. NL teams have figured him out the same way that AL teams had figured him out. I'm not saying that Wily Mo has done anything for us and he'll probably get released in the next couple of weeks, but Arroyo ain't doing shit for Cincinnati either.

As far as Lowell goes, I love the guy but let's keep in mind how he has always, until this season, faded terribly after the ASB. They're likely to wait on A-Rod before they decide to re-sign him.

And as for Lugo and Drew - how many more bust out seasons do you need to see from the Renteria's of this world to learn that you can't make judgements based on not even a full season's worth of games?

Are you even aware that Lugo is hitting .297 since July 1st?

And whatever Theo said about Beckett, it was his decision to give him an extension in the middle of last season.

Your anger at Theo is extremely misplaced.

Trust me i'm not the only guy up here in beantown that feels this way.......they are debating on EEI if Wily Mo

is the worst outfielder in Red Sox history.

Yes but wouldn't you rather have Arroyo pitching this year than Tavarez granted he did a decent job but Arroyo would

be a better pitcher with the sox than the woeful Reds.

And remember he wanted to trade Manny and Nomah for A-Rod and if he did most likely no World Series victory.

Of course i give him credit for the Nomie for Cabrera deal. BUT the guy helps win a world series and they won't sign him due to some clubhouse hijinx or whatever, supposedly Cabrera treated clubhouse personnel like they were dirt .

Look at Cabreras stats ....308 avg. 143 hits ..347 OBP that should wake up Theo he LOOOOVES OBP

Luchino and Henry are Pros they knew sending him to Curts for Turkey would seal the deal ......young hip guy talking shop

curt loves that crap. They played both of them.... it's business.

And i really think he gave up too much in the Gagne deal , i'm not so concerned with Gabbard cause i think he will always battle arm trouble but i dunno about Murphy

and remember Theo wanted Piniero as the closer .......seriously that was the thought ????

i actually do like Lugo except that he takes too many time outs ..but i would rather have Cabrera

[Dan Gould]

Trust me i'm not the only guy up here in beantown that feels this way.......they are debating on EEI if Wily Mo

is the worst outfielder in Red Sox history.

No one thought Pena was a superior fielder when they got him. He was supposed to have a big upside as a power hitter and certainly gave hints of that last year. Then they promised him 450 plate appearances this year and delivered like 150 so far.

I have no doubt that he will end up in KC or somewhere like that and hit 40 homers playing full time, and then idiots on WEEI will complain that they gave up on him too soon.

Yes but wouldn't you rather have Arroyo pitching this year than Tavarez granted he did a decent job but Arroyo would

be a better pitcher with the sox than the woeful Reds.

Arroyo was wearing out his welcome in the AL because the hitters had figured him out. His strikeout rate was dropping like a stone and his ERA was rising. He had a fluke year in Cincinnati because the NL hadn't seen him in a while. So while you might feel better with Arroyo starting instead of Tavarez, purely because of experience, but I would guess that the results would have been just about the same.

Of course i give him credit for the Nomie for Cabrera deal. BUT the guy helps win a world series and they won't sign him due to some clubhouse hijinx or whatever, supposedly Cabrera treated clubhouse personnel like they were dirt .

Look at Cabreras stats ....308 avg. 143 hits ..347 OBP that should wake up Theo he LOOOOVES OBP

Those aren't the stats that Cabrera put up prior to 2004. Not even close. Aside from a career year in 2003 (from which he immediately fell back to his prior level), he was a free-swinger with a low OBP and mediocre BA. You can't criticize Theo because three seasons later he finally put it together. Were you upset about the decision when he put up his .257/.309/.365 line in 2005?

The simple fact was that a better option was available in Renteria, and the Red Sox used their financial might to get him. It would have worked out wonderfully if Renteria wasn't such a sensitive pansy that he couldn't hack it in the big city with the big crowds.

I think you know what they say about hindsight.

And i really think he gave up too much in the Gagne deal , i'm not so concerned with Gabbard cause i think he will always battle arm trouble but i dunno about Murphy

Murphy???

No one believes Murphy is anything other than a fourth outfielder. Where would Murphy be playing if they kept him? He ranks below Ellsbury and Moss, as well as every other OF on the roster except maybe Wily Mo.

[Dan Gould]

The Sox finally have a decent game at home with Wakefield carrying a no-hitter into the seventh to get his 14th win, and then I wake up to the kiss of death:

Steve Phillips declared that the Yankees will still miss the playoffs because of their pitching.

As if we weren't in trouble before ...

[alocispepraluger102]

holy cow! the scooter has passed away.

thanks, phil.

Edited August 14, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[Dan Gould]

holy cow! the scooter has passed away.

thanks, phil.

Holy cow, indeed. I know Marty is going to be saddened by the news.

What I remember the Scooter for though is his broadcast career on Channel 11. He could say some pretty wild and wacky stuff.

[Noj]

Jon Abbey at JC started a great thread a while back about this book, which makes for a very entertaining read and homage to this HOFer. RIP Phil.

[Chalupa]

The Sox finally have a decent game at home with Wakefield carrying a no-hitter into the seventh to get his 14th win, and then I wake up to the kiss of death:

Steve Phillips declared that the Yankees will still miss the playoffs because of their pitching.

As if we weren't in trouble before ...

I saw Wonderboy make that prediction this morning on ESPN and I had the same thought. He also said the Mets and the Tribe were locks not to make the post season. He thinks the Braves win the East and the Rockies get the NL WC. I just don't see the Rockies getting the WC this year.

[alocispepraluger102]

Jon Abbey at JC started a great thread a while back about this book, which makes for a very entertaining read and homage to this HOFer. RIP Phil.

thanks.

phil broadcast for the padres, as well.

[paul secor]

Sad to read of Scooter's passing. I prefer to remember him as a player rather than as a broadcaster. Listening to him drove me crazy - talked about everything but the game.

[Matthew]

Jon Abbey at JC started a great thread a while back about this book, which makes for a very entertaining read and homage to this HOFer. RIP Phil.

thanks.

phil broadcast for the padres, as well.

Surely, you must be thinking of Jerry Coleman, the old Yankee second baseman?

[Jazzmoose]

Not to be disrespectful, but now that he's gone, can we please move him over to the broadcaster's area of the HOF where he belongs?

[Dan Gould]

Not to be disrespectful, but now that he's gone, can we please move him over to the broadcaster's area of the HOF where he belongs?

I was wondering who would bring this up.

There may always be debate about whether he belongs in the Hall (Marty will tell you many reasons why he should) there is no way in hell he belongs in the broadcaster's area of the Hall. I mean, that's ludicrous.

I've never been sure about his qualifications as a player but there's no doubt it didn't hurt that he had friends on the Veteran's Committee.

[alocispepraluger102]

Jon Abbey at JC started a great thread a while back about this book, which makes for a very entertaining read and homage to this HOFer. RIP Phil.

thanks.

phil broadcast for the padres, as well.

Surely, you must be thinking of Jerry Coleman, the old Yankee second baseman?

error on aloc.

[alocispepraluger102]

Not to be disrespectful, but now that he's gone, can we please move him over to the broadcaster's area of the HOF where he belongs?

I was wondering who would bring this up.

There may always be debate about whether he belongs in the Hall (Marty will tell you many reasons why he should) there is no way in hell he belongs in the broadcaster's area of the Hall. I mean, that's ludicrous.

I've never been sure about his qualifications as a player but there's no doubt it didn't hurt that he had friends on the Veteran's Committee.

likewise kirby.

[Dan Gould]

Not to be disrespectful, but now that he's gone, can we please move him over to the broadcaster's area of the HOF where he belongs?

I was wondering who would bring this up.

There may always be debate about whether he belongs in the Hall (Marty will tell you many reasons why he should) there is no way in hell he belongs in the broadcaster's area of the Hall. I mean, that's ludicrous.

I've never been sure about his qualifications as a player but there's no doubt it didn't hurt that he had friends on the Veteran's Committee.

likewise kirby.

Actually, no, because Kirby Puckett was elected by the writers, not the Veteran's Committee, and furthermore, if he hadn't been forced to retire when he did, he was well on his way to achieving the lifetime statistics that make you a lock for the Hall. That's why he was elected in, I believe, his first year of eligibility.