The Baseball Thread 2007

[Dan Gould]

I want to hear Goody explain Hank Aaron's absence and his explanation for why he isn't there to see his record "broken". Which excuse will Goody give?

A] Hank really is a tired old man who shouldn't be expected to fly every three or four days across the country to watch the slow motion chase in person. Notwithstanding the fact that Bobby Doerr managed to fly cross country for Bobby Doerr day, and he's only 89 years old.

B] Hank may believe that Barry is a steroid cheat, but its only because the media has brainwashed him.

C] Hank used greenies so he is a cheater too, and he knows amphetamines help you play ball much more than steroids do.

D] Contrary to public image, Hank doesn't epitomize class or dignity. He's really a jealous old man who can't come to grips with the fact that his record has been broken.

Come on, Goody and tell us the real reason why Hank isn't there.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Dan Gould

[Dan Gould]

Time to recognize the greatest hitter in MLB history, Boyz.

Barry Lamar Bonds Career Batting Average B.S.*

.288

* Before Steroids

Case closed, and it isn't even close.

[Aggie87]

And I quote from today's Fresno Bee [off the AP wire]:

"Congratulations to Barry Bonds as he ties Major League Baseball's home run record. No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds' achievement is noteworthy and remarkable."

"As I said previously, out of respect for the tradition of the game, the magnitude of the record and the fact that all citizens in this country are innocent until proven guilty, either I or a representative of my office will attend the next few games and make every attempt to observe the breaking of the all-time home run record."

-Bub Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball

You're defeating your own argument. If Selig actually was happy about this, he wouldn't have said the above PREPARED comments at all. He would have simply said congratulations and not used the moment to bring up the steroid controversy.

[Aggie87]

So when was that asterisk picture taken....back in April sometime?

That picture was taken AT the game last night. If you actually WATCHED the game on ESPN2, you would have seen the asterisks many times, as they were shown over and over.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Aggie87

[Dan Gould]

And I quote from today's Fresno Bee [off the AP wire]:

"Congratulations to Barry Bonds as he ties Major League Baseball's home run record. No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds' achievement is noteworthy and remarkable."

"As I said previously, out of respect for the tradition of the game, the magnitude of the record and the fact that all citizens in this country are innocent until proven guilty, either I or a representative of my office will attend the next few games and make every attempt to observe the breaking of the all-time home run record."

-Bub Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball

You're defeating your own argument. If Selig actually was happy about this, he wouldn't have said the above PREPARED comments at all. He would have simply said congratulations and not used the moment to bring up the steroid controversy.

Not to mention standing there with his hands shoved in his pocket, looking for all the world like he's waiting for them to start on his root canal.

[Tim McG]

I want to hear Goody explain Hank Aaron's absence and his explanation for why he isn't there to see his record "broken". Which excuse will Goody give?

A] Hank really is a tired old man who shouldn't be expected to fly every three or four days across the country to watch the slow motion chase in person. Notwithstanding the fact that Bobby Doerr managed to fly cross country for Bobby Doerr day, and he's only 89 years old.

B] Hank may believe that Barry is a steroid cheat, but its only because the media has brainwashed him.

C] Hank used greenies so he is a cheater too, and he knows amphetamines help you play ball much more than steroids do.

D] Contrary to public image, Hank doesn't epitomize class or dignity. He's really a jealous old man who can't come to grips with the fact that his record has been broken.

Come on, Goody and tell us the real reason why Hank isn't there.

He bought the big lie...just like you did, Dan.

Coincidence? I think not.

Did you watch the Yahoo! video? Where was all the booing? Lies upon lies, Dan

Pssh.

[Tim McG]

And I quote from today's Fresno Bee [off the AP wire]:

"Congratulations to Barry Bonds as he ties Major League Baseball's home run record. No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds' achievement is noteworthy and remarkable."

"As I said previously, out of respect for the tradition of the game, the magnitude of the record and the fact that all citizens in this country are innocent until proven guilty, either I or a representative of my office will attend the next few games and make every attempt to observe the breaking of the all-time home run record."

-Bub Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball

You're defeating your own argument. If Selig actually was happy about this, he wouldn't have said the above PREPARED comments at all. He would have simply said congratulations and not used the moment to bring up the steroid controversy.

Not to mention standing there with his hands shoved in his pocket, looking for all the world like he's waiting for them to start on his root canal.

I see.

So there is a set guidline as to how people in sensitive CEO positions should react? Please, do tell...enlighten us.

[ahem]

Appearances can be deceiving, Dan.....but don't let the fact of the matter deter you. Go on, be a hater. Your loss.

Edited August 5, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Tim McG]

And I quote from today's Fresno Bee [off the AP wire]:

"Congratulations to Barry Bonds as he ties Major League Baseball's home run record. No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds' achievement is noteworthy and remarkable."

"As I said previously, out of respect for the tradition of the game, the magnitude of the record and the fact that all citizens in this country are innocent until proven guilty, either I or a representative of my office will attend the next few games and make every attempt to observe the breaking of the all-time home run record."

-Bub Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball

You're defeating your own argument. If Selig actually was happy about this, he wouldn't have said the above PREPARED comments at all. He would have simply said congratulations and not used the moment to bring up the steroid controversy.

Please.

A great public speaker he is not.

Selig has read from a scripted response in every single public appearance he has ever made. Whenever he speaks, he is as interesting as watching paint dry.

You know, they say hatred blinds you to reality.

I'm inclined to believe that.

Edited August 5, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Aggie87]

Receipt:

Mail to:

Goodspeak

San Joaquin Valley, CA

Item: Bumpersticker

Quantity: 1

Price: $3.99

From: Your friends at the Organissimo Board

[Dan Gould]

And I quote from today's Fresno Bee [off the AP wire]:

"Congratulations to Barry Bonds as he ties Major League Baseball's home run record. No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds' achievement is noteworthy and remarkable."

"As I said previously, out of respect for the tradition of the game, the magnitude of the record and the fact that all citizens in this country are innocent until proven guilty, either I or a representative of my office will attend the next few games and make every attempt to observe the breaking of the all-time home run record."

-Bub Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball

You're defeating your own argument. If Selig actually was happy about this, he wouldn't have said the above PREPARED comments at all. He would have simply said congratulations and not used the moment to bring up the steroid controversy.

Not to mention standing there with his hands shoved in his pocket, looking for all the world like he's waiting for them to start on his root canal.

I see.

So there is a set guidline as to how people in sensitive CEO positions should react? Please, do tell...enlighten us.

[ahem]

Appearances can be deceiving, Dan.....but don't let the fact of the matter deter you. Go on, be a hater. Your loss.

You can't really be this stupid.

In every public comment he makes about Bonds, Selig uses the phrase "innocent until proven guilty".

You concentrate on the first noun like its a shield against the overwhelming evidence that exists. Selig is only waiting for that second noun to come into play following his indictment, trial and conviction. Then you'll find out just what he thinks of your hero: he's not going to talk about asterisks, he's going to talk about deletion from the record books entirely.

[Dan Gould]

I want to hear Goody explain Hank Aaron's absence and his explanation for why he isn't there to see his record "broken". Which excuse will Goody give?

A] Hank really is a tired old man who shouldn't be expected to fly every three or four days across the country to watch the slow motion chase in person. Notwithstanding the fact that Bobby Doerr managed to fly cross country for Bobby Doerr day, and he's only 89 years old.

B] Hank may believe that Barry is a steroid cheat, but its only because the media has brainwashed him.

C] Hank used greenies so he is a cheater too, and he knows amphetamines help you play ball much more than steroids do.

D] Contrary to public image, Hank doesn't epitomize class or dignity. He's really a jealous old man who can't come to grips with the fact that his record has been broken.

Come on, Goody and tell us the real reason why Hank isn't there.

He bought the big lie...just like you did, Dan.

The only "Big Lie" is the lie you perpetuate in your pathetic attempts to defend your idol.

Let's list them, shall we?

1) Bonds did not use steroids.

If so, he was the only client of BALCO who did not receive and use them.

If so, we are expected to believe that Greg Anderson put Jason Giambi on the Clear and the Cream but not his close friend and client.

If so, steroid experts are wrong when they say that extraordinary muscle gain in a short period of time, as Bonds showed after the 1998 season, is a hallmark of steroid abuse.

If so, the doping calendar marked BLB (Barry Lamar Bonds) which shows Bonds' schedule of doping and also just happens to duplicate the Giants schedule for that season, is fake and was most likely planted by Mark Furhman.

If so, we are to believe that Bonds' head grew due to natural, though previously unknown causes.

2) Steroids do not help you hit home runs.

If so, then we are to believe that Barry Bonds had no reason to go from being a scrawny rookie to a hulking muscle bound slugger.

If so, then we are to believe that it is entirely coincidental that players such as Jose Canseco, Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, and Juan Gonzales used steroids, got enormously big, and hit home runs at an extraordinary pace. Their extreme muscle gain has no relationship to the fact that the four alone combined for over 2000 home runs in their careers.

If so, then we are to believe that increased strength through steroid use does NOT give a player the ability to swing the bat faster and therefore allow him an extra split second to identify a pitch before deciding to swing or not.

If so, we are to believe that increased strength does not and cannot result in an extra 20 or 50 feet of distance on balls hit in the air. It is not plausible to believe that this added distance can result in more home runs.

If so, we are to believe that the explosion of offense in the 1990s and the simultaneous explosion of steroid use and strength training are in no way related.

Bonds is the victim of the "racist" media.

If so, then Hank Aaron, who dealt with true racism throughout his career but most especially during his quest for the home run title, can't recognize it when he sees it. He only sees a steroid cheat who isn't even worthy of a congratulatory phone call.

Did I miss any?

THOSE are the Big Lies. You ought to recognize them since you recite them every day.

[Dan Gould]

All this time wasted on a steroid cheat when the pennant races actually looks darned interesting. Outside of the pathetic Giants, everyone in the NL West is in it, and the massively overachieving D-Backs (a negative 32 run differential) have taken advantage of the slumping Padres and Dodgers to take hold of the lead. The Cubbies look to have a strong chance to snatch the division away from the Brewers and the Mets haven't been able to do enough to pull away in the East.

Meanwhile, what has happened to the Tigers and Indians? They've been so bad, that the Yanks are now 1/2 game out of the wild card. At this rate they may not even slow down the Yanks when they play later this month. I was really hoping for the Yanks to be out of the playoffs but at this rate, the wild card Yanks could face the Angels and the Sox could get the "winner" of the Central division - I'll take that since the Angels seem to have the Yanks number in playoff series. But I've never seen two decent teams play such a long series of "that's OK, you can have it" "No, I insist!" ever before.

[Tim McG]

Receipt:

Mail to:

Goodspeak

San Joaquin Valley, CA

Item: Bumpersticker

Quantity: 1

Price: $3.99

From: Your friends at the Organissimo Board

Now that's funny

I absolutely and unequivocally deny there is any substantiated proof Barry Bonds did steroids.

I patiently await delivery in the mail.

Edited August 5, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[sheldonm]

...from a guy in the dugout with him.

NEW YORK (AP) -- Brian Johnson said it's "hard to dispute" that former teammate Barry Bonds cheated by using performance-enhancing drugs.

Johnson, appearing Sunday on ESPN's Outside the Lines, recounted what he told the staff of baseball steroids investigator George Mitchell. Johnson, a catcher with Bonds' San Francisco Giants in 1997 and 1998, also was asked by ESPN about Bonds, who tied Hank Aaron's career home run record on Saturday night.

"You can make a fair argument that he may have been cheating," Johnson said. "Based on what has been documented, it's hard to dispute that argument."

Johnson played with six major league teams from 1994-01 and said he spoke with the Mitchell investigators about his knowledge of steroids use.

"It was kind of a cloak-and-dagger society. Guys that were taking knew of each other and talked about things among themselves," Johnson said. "What I saw was that guys who were taking would never admit it, would never allow anybody to see. But it was pretty obvious to all of us that they were taking. ... Some people sold their soul to the devil and other people didn't."

Johnson hopes the investigation does more than document users.

"We need to do more than just find out who did it, crucify them, sweep them aside, and move forward," he said. "We need to do more than that."

[Tim McG]

Hard to dispute...yeah.

Right on.

PROVE it to me.

Edited August 9, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[sheldonm]

Hard to dispute...yeah.

Right on.

PROOVE it to me.

I think this guy may have a little more knowledge than you on the subject. Why anything needs to be proved to you...I'm not sure. Whether or not you believe he took steroids has no effect on whether he did or didn't.

m~

[Soulstation1]

the NL must suck if the d-backs have the 2nd best record in the league

they've been playin' some ball

[Soulstation1]

tigers are probably playin' the best ball in the majors

i put the whammy on the tigers

[BERIGAN]

Some quotes by Barry Bonds....

"Can you get my son [on camera) too, just not on me? So you guys can show the pain you're causing my whole family."

Quote Source: MLB.com, Mar. 23, 2004

"I never asked Greg. When he said it was flaxseed oil, I just said, whatever."

Quote Source: Bonds' Grand Jury Testimony, Dec. 4, 2003

"Doctors ought to quit worrying about what ballplayers are taking. What players take doesn't matter. It's nobody else's business. The doctors should spend their time looking for cures for cancer. It takes more than muscles to hit homers. If all those guys were using stuff, how come they're not all hitting homers?"

Quote Source: Associated Press, May 21, 2002

"No. I don't have to [use steroids]. I mean, I'm a good enough ballplayer as it is. I don't need to be any better. I can't get any better at this age."

Quote Source: Bonds @ On the Record with Bob Costas, June 2002

"I never asked. When he said it was flaxseed oil, I just said, 'Whatever.' It was in the ballpark.. in front of everybody. I mean, all the reporters, my teammates, I mean they all saw it. I didn't hide it."

Quote Source: Bonds' Grand Jury Testimony, Dec. 4, 2003

"All you guys lied! All of y'all and the story have lied. Should you have asterisks behind your name? All of you lied. All of you have said something wrong. All of you have dirt. When your closet's clean, then come clean somebody else's."

Quote Source: USA Today, Feb. 22, 2005

"I don't know if steroids are going to help you in baseball. I just don't believe it. I don't believe steroids can help eye-hand coordination [and] technically hit a baseball."

Quote Source: USA Today, Feb. 22, 2005

"You wanted me to jump off the bridge; I finally have jumped. You wanted to bring me down, you've finally brought me and my family down. You've finally done it. So now go kick a different person. I'm done. I'll do the best I can and that's about it. [i'm talking about] inner hurt. I'm physically, mentally done. I'm mentally drained. Tired of my kids crying."

Quote Source: MLB.com, Mar. 23, 2004

http://www.baseballssteroidera.com/bse-mem...id-related.html

[BERIGAN]

Other player quotes about steroid use....

Gary Sheffield

"Nothing was between me and Greg. Barry pretty much controlled everything.. It was basically Barry (saying), 'Trust me. Do what I do.'"

Quote Source: Sheffield's Grand Jury Testimony, Dec. 4, 2003

Turk Wendell

"If my personal trainer, me, Turk Wendell, got indicted for that, there's no one in the world who wouldn't think that I wasn't taking steroids. What, because he's Barry Bonds, no one's going to say that? I mean, obviously he did it. (His trainer) admitted to giving steroids to baseball players. He just doesn't want to say his name. You don't have to. It's clear just seeing his body."

Quote Source: Denver Post, Feb. 23, 2004

Bret Boone

"Who is to say someone's wrong for doing it? I don't know if they're good or bad. If you abuse anything, there are going to be effects down the road. If steroids are done in moderation, done correctly and safely, it might be an option."

Quote Source: USA Today, Jul. 7, 2002

"If I took steroids, I could dunk. Never mind baseball, I could play in the NBA."

Quote Source: ESPN, May 30, 2002

Ken Caminiti

"The stronger you get, the more relaxed you get. You feel good. You just let it fly. If you don't feel good, you try so hard to make something happen. You grip the bat harder and swing harder and that's when you tighten up. But you get that edge when you feel strong. That's the way I felt. I felt strong, like I could just try to meet the ball and -- wham! -- it's going to go 1,000 mph. Man, I felt good. I'd think, Damn, this pitcher's in trouble and I'd crush the ball 450 feet with almost no effort. It's all about getting an edge."

Quote Source: Sports Illustrated Magazine, Jun. 3, 2002

"It's still a hand-eye coordination game, but the difference [with steroids] is the ball is going to go a little farther. Some of the balls that would go to the warning track will go out. That's the difference."

Quote Source: Sports Illustrated Magazine, Jun. 3, 2002

"My body was torn up and broken down but it felt good [on steroids]. I felt like a kid. I was running better. I'd be running the bases and think, 'Man, I'm fast!' And I had never been that fast. But I was. Steroids made me like that."

Quote Source: Sports Illustrated Magazine, Jun. 3, 2002

"I would say there are only a couple of guys on a team that don't take greenies before a game. One or two guys. That's called going out there naked. And you hear it all the time from teammates, 'You're not going to play naked, are you?' And even the guys who are against greenies may be taking diet pills or popping 25 caffeine pills and they're up there with their hands shaking. So how good is that? This game is so whacked out that guys will take anything to get an edge. You got a pill that will make me feel better? Let me have it"

Quote Source: Sports Illustrated Magazine, Jun. 3, 2002

[Matthew]

You have to love the Moose. Coco Crash!

[Noj]

"I would say there are only a couple of guys on a team that don't take greenies before a game. One or two guys. That's called going out there naked. And you hear it all the time from teammates, 'You're not going to play naked, are you?' And even the guys who are against greenies may be taking diet pills or popping 25 caffeine pills and they're up there with their hands shaking. So how good is that? This game is so whacked out that guys will take anything to get an edge. You got a pill that will make me feel better? Let me have it"

Quote Source: Sports Illustrated Magazine, Jun. 3, 2002

I've heard this cited as a defense of Bonds' performance. If the performance-enhancing supplements were this rampant, it stands to reason that many of the pitchers he was facing who were also cranked up on something. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's not really fair to give one guy hell and not shell it out to everyone else too.

[Aggie87]

"I would say there are only a couple of guys on a team that don't take greenies before a game. One or two guys. That's called going out there naked. And you hear it all the time from teammates, 'You're not going to play naked, are you?' And even the guys who are against greenies may be taking diet pills or popping 25 caffeine pills and they're up there with their hands shaking. So how good is that? This game is so whacked out that guys will take anything to get an edge. You got a pill that will make me feel better? Let me have it"

Quote Source: Sports Illustrated Magazine, Jun. 3, 2002

I've heard this cited as a defense of Bonds' performance. If the performance-enhancing supplements were this rampant, it stands to reason that many of the pitchers he was facing who were also cranked up on something. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's not really fair to give one guy hell and not shell it out to everyone else too.

I agree it's not fair and that all users should be cast into the Pit of Despair, but Bonds is in THE limelight because he is about to break the single most renowned sports record in the country.

[Dan Gould]

"I would say there are only a couple of guys on a team that don't take greenies before a game. One or two guys. That's called going out there naked. And you hear it all the time from teammates, 'You're not going to play naked, are you?' And even the guys who are against greenies may be taking diet pills or popping 25 caffeine pills and they're up there with their hands shaking. So how good is that? This game is so whacked out that guys will take anything to get an edge. You got a pill that will make me feel better? Let me have it"

Quote Source: Sports Illustrated Magazine, Jun. 3, 2002

I've heard this cited as a defense of Bonds' performance. If the performance-enhancing supplements were this rampant, it stands to reason that many of the pitchers he was facing who were also cranked up on something. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's not really fair to give one guy hell and not shell it out to everyone else too.

I agree it's not fair and that all users should be cast into the Pit of Despair, but Bonds is in THE limelight because he is about to break the single most renowned sports record in the country.

And because aside from Giambi, Sheffield, Palmiero, and a handful of lesser lights who've actually been caught, Bonds is the one player for whom the proof that he juiced is incontrovertible.

[Dan Gould]

You have to love the Moose. Coco Crash!

I know you don't seriously believe that the Mariner Moose is "innocent", do you Matthew? That man came within inches of seriously injuring or even potentially killing a player because he is racing around the stadium on an ATV, and its the player's fault for not watching out for him?? The idiot is lucky he wasn't pulled from the vehicle and pummeled, which he surely would have been if Coco had been hit.