The Baseball Thread 2007

[Matthew]

God must have one helluva ball club now.

Does he have Ruth hit, or pitch??? A good lefty starter is hard to find. Perhaps he Dh's the days he doesn't pitch.....

Reminds me of the old story that Joe MacCarthy use to tell:

The Devil challenged St. Peter to a baseball game, and St. Peter says: "Why? we have all the great players up here, Ruth, Williams, Honus Wagner, Cy Young, all the great players. You don't have a chance!" The Devil replies: "You're right about the players but you forgot: We have all the umps!"

[Soulstation1]

tribe = strugglin'

[Big Al]

This guy completely nails it, why Texas needed to get rid of Tex and quickly.

Teixeira's talk was bluster when Hicks upped the ante

By GIL LeBRETON

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

ARLINGTON -- Two trades. Eight new players. A reinvigorated farm system.

And one well-timed revelation.

Namely, that before the Rangers pulled the trigger Monday on the blockbuster trade that sent Mark Teixeira to the Atlanta Braves, they offered the first baseman an eight-year, $140-million contract.

"I was hoping that he would say yes," Rangers owner Tom Hicks said Tuesday from his home in La Jolla, Calif.

But Teixeira's agent, Scott Boras, told the Rangers that his client wasn't interested.

Which proves, I suppose, that they don't teach math after all at Georgia Tech, where Teixeira attended. By 2007 salaries, the deal would have made Teixeira the fourth highest-paid player in baseball.

Is Teixeira the fourth-best player in the major leagues? Not even close.

Teixeira turned down Manny Ramirez money, but you can't convince me that he's as talented a player as Ramirez. Or Vladimir Guerrero. Or Miguel Tejada. Or David Ortiz. Or any of the other true stars that Teixeira apparently wants to be paid more than.

Hicks, nonetheless, said that he was prepared two weeks ago to roll out the cash to keep Teixeira. And, as the trade deadline neared, to keep closer Eric Gagné, who also turned down the Rangers' offer and was traded Tuesday to the Boston Red Sox.

Local cynics are suggesting that Hicks was bluffing, that he knew there was no way that Boras would accept a new deal for Teixeira. The accusation is ludicrous. No one makes a $140 million bet playing liar's poker.

If he were bluffing, who would Hicks be trying to impress?

It's hard to fault the owner for spilling the beans about the spurned contract offer. The deal with the Braves was done. If the club was trying to trade Teixeira, what good would it have done to tell potential suitors on July 15 that the first baseman had already turned down an eight-year, $140-million contract offer?

The offer to Gagné was for two years with two additional automatically renewing years based upon games finished -- roughly, a $34-36 million deal.

Giving Gagné, with his injury history, what amounts to a four-year contract is also not exactly bluffing.

"[General manager Jon Daniels] and Eric had made a lot of progress talking about the new contract," Hicks said. "And then Scott got involved."

Listening to Hicks talk about Agent Evil leads me to think that the owner isn't scared of Boras. But he clearly has grown tired of him, tired of the wedge that Boras drives between player and team.

Like a stray dog, Boras wanders into a neighborhood, does his business and moves on, leaving the local citizenry to contend with the smell. Hicks, the owner, lives here, and so he is left to weather the daily public relations heat.

Unable to sign either Teixeira or Gagné, therefore, Daniels found the two teams most willing to blink: the Braves and Red Sox.

Depending upon which scouting source you listen to, Jarrod Saltalamacchia projects as a likely .300 hitter each season, with 25-30 home runs and 100 RBI.

Meanwhile, Teixeira's last three seasons have averaged 38 homers, 122 RBI and a .288 average. The difference between those two sets of stats can't possibly be worth $20 million per season.

It was vital that the Rangers obtain some sort of starting pitching in return for Teixeira and Gagné. Kason Gabbard, 25, goes a step further by being left-handed, an under-utilized asset of late with the ample left field at Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.

"Especially a guy, like Kason, who's a groundball guy and who knows how to pitch," Daniels said. "Kenny Rogers, who's been one of the most successful pitchers in the history of this ballpark, clearly has shown the value of that style here."

A scout from a rival American League team said Tuesday that both deals, in the end, favored the Rangers.

"Atlanta got mugged," the scout said. (Sorry Berigan!)

It's become trite to say that Hicks needs to loosen his wallet and spend what it takes to keep the Rangers intact. If Teixeira was truly worth the 10-year, $200-plus million contract that he apparently wants, the Rangers wouldn't have finished in third and fourth place in every season that he was with the club.

Talk about bluffing. Teixeira was hailed by some local sheep for "telling like it is" about Hicks. He chastised the franchise for operating "like a small-market club."

That "small-market" team offered him $140 million -- $60 million more than Michael Young -- to remain a Ranger. But Mark Teixeira said no way.

So who was misleading who here?

In the American League, he was a one-time All-Star. In the National League, good luck. Teixeira isn't as good as first basemen Albert Pujols, Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Derek Lee, Lance Berkman or even Carlos Delgado.

Daniels, to his credit, had nothing but praise for both Teixeira and Gagné as he discussed the two trades at a Tuesday news conference. His work was done. He had negotiated with two of the game's best-pedigreed general managers, John Schuerholz and Theo Epstein, and added to the starting rotation, replaced the first baseman and re-energized the farm system, all in one two-day swoop.

Time will tell. Young players are fickle. But for now, the Rangers' future has a chance to be brighter. Too bad the former first baseman didn't want to be a part of it.

[Dan Gould]

That last sentence is a bit dishonest, since it was the first baseman's decision not to be part of that future that made it possible to secure a "brighter" future.

I would tend to agree that the Braves gave up a lot for someone who is likely to leave at the end of next season.

The long term impact of the Gagne trade is really dependent on that 17 year old they threw in. From what I've now learned, he's got a very high ceiling, a Darryl Strawberry type body that could project to superstar status. But its tough to know this far in advance. He's really stinking up the FL Rookie league, hitting .212 or something like that.

And it seems as though there are a lot of mixed views of both Gabbard and Murphy. Some think that the Sox sold Gabbard at just the right time, that his stats so far scream out "first time through the league", and some think Murphy will never amount to more than a fourth outfielder, lacking sufficient power or speed to play regularly.

One thing is for sure, the Sox will know how they made out by the end of October: if they're planning another parade, this trade goes down right next to the Nomar trade in the Legend of Theo. If they fall short, the only way the trade backfires is if Gabbard exceeds his ceiling or the kid turns out to be a star.

Meantime, Big Schill is ready to return, having pitched 15 innings in his AAA rehab assignment, with 18 strikeouts and not allowing a walk or a run. If he's really ready to come back and be a true ace down the stretch, well ....

[Chalupa]

For Dan....

[Tim McG]

Giants trade Matt Morris to Pittsburg for an intinerate outfielder and a player to be named later.

[heaviest of sighs]

Go Niners.

[Dan Gould]

For Dan....

I couldn't care less about the NBA or the Celtics, but thanks just the same.

[Big Al]

Giants trade Matt Morris to Pittsburg for an intinerate outfielder and a player to be named later.

[heaviest of sighs]

What the.... did the Giants hire John Hart or something? That sounds like the kind of move the Rangers are notorious for! Sorry to hear this!

[Quincy]

Giants trade Matt Morris to Pittsburg for an intinerate outfielder and a player to be named later.

[heaviest of sighs]

What the.... did the Giants hire John Hart or something? That sounds like the kind of move the Rangers are notorious for! Sorry to hear this!

I swear I saw one of the news services refer to him as "aging pitcher." The guy turns 33 next week!

I suppose it's all in how you play, but don't you think you need to be closer to 37 to be "aging." Sheeeeesh.

[Dan Gould]

You all know how I feel about Bonds and his home run quest but I really can't believe that Selig is acting as if he's about to give up because its taken so long.

"Depending on the weekend, we'll be up to 11 [games], so I don't think there's anybody that can say that I haven't made a Herculean effort."

"In fact, I've been having a lot of people who are stunned that I'm still at this."

So, when he came up with the reasons why he should be on hand (historic record, innocent until proven guilty, yada yada yada) there was a time limit on them?

Do you think maybe this is Bonds revenge on old Bud? You hate me so much, let's see how much you like it if I keep you following me around for a month?

[MartyJazz]

Meanwhile A-Rod finally got his 500th today in a Yankee win. Lost in the otherwise good news for Yank fans is that Phil Hughes got lit up, giving up 6 runs in 4-2/3 innings. Not good. If we're going to catch the Red Sox, the starting pitching has to be more than a Wang and a prayer.

[Dan Gould]

Meanwhile A-Rod finally got his 500th today in a Yankee win. Lost in the otherwise good news for Yank fans is that Phil Hughes got lit up, giving up 6 runs in 4-2/3 innings. Not good. If we're going to catch the Red Sox, the starting pitching has to be more than a Wang and a prayer.

You got that right, Marty. And after one more sacrificial lamb, the Yanks start their trek through August, with the Blue Jays (very hot at home right now) and the Indians up first (I assume they still have the best home record in baseball) and 8 games with Detroit and a series with the Angels. There are two possibilities: the Yankee bats (most of them - I am sure you aren't thrilled at the thought of Johnny Damon for two more seasons) are going to stay locked in and keep scoring OR the much more likely outcome that better pitching will hold them in check and this will be the high water mark of the season.

[Tim McG]

#755!!!

And the ENTIRE stadium of fans at Petco Park was on their feet and cheering and snapping photos.

Now how about THAT.

I think that pretty much tells the real story about who wants to see Bonds break the record.

The SD fans gave Bonds a standing-O when he took the field, too.

Anybody saying nobody wanted Bonds to do it were dead dog WRONG....and I told you so.

Ha!

I accept your apologies in advance.

Edited August 5, 2007 by GoodSpeak

[Aggie87]

Happy for you Goodspeak.

Sad day for baseball.

[Tim McG]

Happy for you Goodspeak.

Sad day for baseball.

Oh, get off it already.

The majority of real baseball fans wanted to see him break it and you were wrong.

Sad day indeed....for closed minds.

[Aggie87]

And the ENTIRE stadium of fans at Petco Park was on their feet and cheering and snapping photos.

Now how about THAT.

I think that pretty much tells the real story about who wants to see Bonds break the record.

The SD fans gave Bonds a standing-O when he took the field, too.

Anybody saying nobody wanted Bonds to do it were dead dog WRONG....and I told you so.

Ha!

These are the fans IN Petco Park tonight:

Yep, the ENTIRE stadium was cheering for him.

You go on hallucinating, Goodspeak.

[Aggie87]

An excerpt from CNN's current article on the HR:

The godson of Willie Mays and the son of an All-Star outfielder, Bonds seemed destined for greatness from the start. Funny thing, his speed drew a lot more attention than his strength when he broke into the majors as a lanky leadoff hitter.

Even when Bonds became a threat to Aaron's record, many fans thought age would slow him down. Instead, his power numbers surged -- as did speculation about steroid use.

Bonds steadfastly denied that he knowingly used performance-enhancing drugs and let the allegations bounce off him, the same way fastballs deflected off his bulky body armor.

Choking up an inch or so on his favorite maple bats, No. 25 became the No. 1 target for boobirds outside the Bay Area. Bonds was constantly shadowed by doubts rather than showered in affection the way Mark McGwire was nearly a decade ago.

The whole baseball world -- the whole country, really -- joined the celebration when McGwire broke Roger Maris' season home run record in 1998. After Big Mac launched No. 62, he pointed to heaven, hoisted his son and hugged Sammy Sosa.

Yet that story did not have a happy ending. Disgraced by a poor performance in front of a congressional panel looking into steroids, McGwire basically became a recluse and never came close in his first bid to make the Hall of Fame.

Bonds broke McGwire's mark of 70, hitting 73 homers in 2001. Ever since, he's been on a path toward Aaron, a journey that hasn't been full of joy. Bonds has been hobbled by bad knees and bickered with Giants management, and his chase was hardly backed by Selig.

A lot of fans, in fact, are already rooting for the day when Bonds' record falls. While Sosa, Ken Griffey Jr. and Frank Thomas are next up among active players, Rodriguez is considered the most likely successor. The Yankees star just turned 32 and is well ahead of Bonds' pace at the same age.

[Dan Gould]

The SD fans gave Bonds a standing-O when he took the field, too.

You pathetic lying sack of shit. From the AP report:

The Petco Park crowd stood and cheered, with some boos mixed in, when the San Francisco slugger homered off Clay Hensley in the second inning. Several fans held up asterisk signs.

Bonds was booed as he headed to left field at the end of the inning.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/arti..._record/?page=1

[Big Al]

with the Blue Jays (very hot at home right now)

Just cuz you clobber the Rangers on your home turf doesn't necessarily mean you're on a hot streak......

Edited August 5, 2007 by Big Al

[Big Al]

So Bonds tied Aaron's record. Big fucking deal. I'll cheer when A-Rod breaks it. Not if; WHEN. No apologies forthcoming, Goody, and I couldn't care less if you told us so. If you need one of us to admit to you that you were right and we were wrong, then it really doesn't get more pathetic than that.

[Soulstation1]

can you guys take the bonds bashing over to the bonds* thread

[Dan Gould]

can you guys take the bonds bashing over to the bonds* thread

Tell it to the sole apologist who brought it back here in the first place.

[Tim McG]

So when was that asterisk picture taken....back in April sometime?

He was booed...what, by the three or four Dan Gould types in the audience?

Here it is on Yahoo! and crank up the volume so you can hear all that booing, OK?

Link:Barry Bonds hits #755!

Yup.

No cheering, nobody is standing....place was empty. Right.

Time to recognize the greatest hitter in MLB history, Boyz.

[Tim McG]

And I quote from today's Fresno Bee [off the AP wire]:

"Congratulations to Barry Bonds as he ties Major League Baseball's home run record. No matter what anybody thinks of the controversy surrounding this event, Mr. Bonds' achievement is noteworthy and remarkable."

"As I said previously, out of respect for the tradition of the game, the magnitude of the record and the fact that all citizens in this country are innocent until proven guilty, either I or a representative of my office will attend the next few games and make every attempt to observe the breaking of the all-time home run record."

-Bub Selig, Commissioner of Major League Baseball

[Tim McG]

Look, listen and learn.