Freddie Webster

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I may be prejudiced because I know it from the Smithsonian set "Dizzy Gillespie: The Development of an American Artist, 1940-1946", but that sounds like Gillespie to me. The Smithsonian set has the discographical stamp of approval from Dan Morgenstern.

Mike

[ghost of miles]

I listened to it three times in a row just now--I think it's Gillespie as well. His sound is much like Webster's around this time, but certain phrases have a distinct Dizzy-ish tint & time to them. Thanks much...

[brownie]

One of the most reliable jazz book I keep handy (Dictionnaire du Jazz) has the trumpet solo on Georgie Auld's 'Co-Pilot' attributed to Freddie Webster. I have nowI relistened to the track and have to agree it sounds very much like Dizzy!

[ghost of miles]

Webster recently came up as a topic on a jazz listserv I'm on--if anybody's interested in hearing an assemblage of his solos, here's the Night Lights program:

The Man Before Miles: Freddie Webster

We'll probably rerun it in June, around the time of Webster's birthday.

Edited March 5, 2009 by ghost of miles

[Free For All]

Thanks for the info, GoM!

(Wow, one of my first threads- that sure seems like a lifetime ago....)

[jeffcrom]

The latest entry in my 78 blog features one of Freddie Webster's most elusive sessions. Hope you enjoy it.

https://78rpmblog.blogspot.com/2018/09/freddie-webster-with-sonny-boy-williams.html

[medjuck]

Wow. Thanks. 

[Big Beat Steve]

Wow too. Some find! Thanks a lot!

Even though fairly lightweight, it'd deserve an off-the-beaten-tracks reissue to round out the picture of what was popular then. "Savoy Is Jumpin" would be a nice and relaxed one for the dancers to gather some breath between two flagwavers.

[paul secor]

Thanks, Jeff. Good (though brief) additions to Freddie Webster's recorded output.

[brownie]

Those four Sonny Boy Williams sides were included in a two-CD set 'Freddie Webster 'A Compréhensive Collection' that was in circulation among O. posters several years ago. Most surely Ubu originated (many thanks, Ubu!). Great collection...

[jeffcrom]

They're also on a Document CD of all of Sonny Boy Williams' Decca sides. But they're hard enough to find that I thought it would be a worthwhile post.

[paul secor]

It was a worthwhile post.

[JSngry]

I've never heard of Sonny Boy Williams. Thanks for sharing.

The tenor player is catching my ear, very Lester-ish but not at all in the "grey boy" way... Who was doing this in 1942?

[jeffcrom]

Someone elsewhere on the internet directed me to the Discography of American Historical Recordings - which I use all the time, but didn't know they had made it up to 1942. Accorded to their info, Sonny Boy Williams is the piano player on these recordings. I had wondered about that, since I had found some indications that he was a pianist.

https://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/matrix/detail/2000299335/71222-Reverse_the_charges

And I have been speculating about the tenor player, and have an educated guess. I really don't have any hard evidence, though, and the aural evidence is inconclusive to my ears. But I wonder if it's Stafford Simon. He and Webster crossed paths frequently - they played together at various times with Benny Carter, Lucky Millinder, and Louis Jordan. One problem is that most of the few confirmed Stafford Simon solos I have on my shelves are at brisk tempos, rather than the relaxed pace of Sonny Boy's songs. But others can lend their ears, and see what they think.

Stafford Simon solos at 2:04 of Benny Carter's "Night Hop":
 

He has a longer solo on Lucky Millinder's "Apollo Jump" (at 1:19).  The tune is medium tempo, but the solo is simpler and more riff-based.
 

It seems like a reasonable guess, but I can't say I'm convinced at this point.

[Chuck Nessa]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

I've never heard of Sonny Boy Williams. Thanks for sharing.

The tenor player is catching my ear, very Lester-ish but not at all in the "grey boy" way... Who was doing this in 1942?

Bruyninckx says "possibly Dexter Gordon" and on the previous session Chauncey Graham was listed on tenor.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Chuck Nessa

[JSngry]

intriguing....

[medjuck]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:16 AM, brownie said:

Those four Sonny Boy Williams sides were included in a two-CD set 'Freddie Webster 'A Compréhensive Collection' that was in circulation among O. posters several years ago. Most surely Ubu originated (many thanks, Ubu!). Great collection...

I thought I got my copy from Ghost of Miles.  Whoever it was thanks.  

[brownie]

 

Ghost of Miles indeed!

Apologies and renewed thanks to him for this very worthy enterprise...

[Big Beat Steve]

On 19.9.2018 at 6:33 PM, jeffcrom said:

They're also on a Document CD of all of Sonny Boy Williams' Decca sides. But they're hard enough to find that I thought it would be a worthwhile post.

Thanks for the hint.

In my quest for the obscurer obscurities from the 30s/40s/50s , I couldn't help ordering a copy of this CD online (seems to be uncommon - "never sold on Discogs" yet). Not expecting monumental wonders but looking forward to it.

[medjuck]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:16 AM, brownie said:

Those four Sonny Boy Williams sides were included in a two-CD set 'Freddie Webster 'A Compréhensive Collection' that was in circulation among O. posters several years ago.  Great collection...

BTW I played these again yesterday and got intrigued by the sax player on the Bud Powell dates.  According to the jazzdisco.org site the recording were actually made under the name of the saxophonist, one Frankie Socolow.   A search of the web led me to believe he was only on a few recordings though he played with several (white)  bands.  I quite like him here. 

[Big Beat Steve]

52 minutes ago, medjuck said:

According to the jazzdisco.org site the recording were actually made under the name of the saxophonist, one Frankie Socolow.  

This session for the Duke label (not the one of Duke/Peacock fame, it seems) was his first leader date.

It would take him another 11 years until he got his second one (for Bethlehem):

You bump into him as a sideman on quite a lot of 40s/early 50s dates, though.

 

 

 

Has the page below ever been mentioned in this context?

http://www.jazzdocumentation.ch/mario/frwe.pdf

Edited September 21, 2018 by Big Beat Steve

[ghost of miles]

11 hours ago, brownie said:

 

Ghost of Miles indeed!

Apologies and renewed thanks to him for this very worthy enterprise...

I'd forgotten all about it--somehow I don't think I have a copy of it!  But glad others have been able to enjoy the compilation of FW's recorded appearances.