Freddie Webster

[Free For All]

I've heard that Miles was influenced by Freddie (or is it Freddy?) Webster, especially regarding his approach to the use of the harmon mute. Are there some decent FW recordings to check out? I seem to remember a Bud Powell date with FW on a couple cuts. I see a bunch of sideman dates on AMG, but I was wondering what the Organissimites might recommend.

Edited August 27, 2003 by Free For All

[brownie]

The Bud Powell date with Freddie Webster was actually a Frank Socolow Quintet date. It was reissued in the 'Bebop Revisited'

Volume 6 on the Xanadu 208 LP. Not sure the full session came out on CD. It's the one full record session where

Webster is featured.

Webster is heard in the 1946 version of Sarah Vaughan's 'You're Not the Kind'.

[jazzbo]

On cd on the Chronogical Classics Bud Powell release.

[brownie]

Of course, Lon. Should always check Classics CDs with anything over 50 years old.

[jazzbo]

Yeah, I bought the cd just to get that session! (We are all likely to have the rest of the material.)

[John L]

Actually, Freddie Webster is on quite a lot of recordings. But he hardly ever solos!

I enjoy the session with Bud Powell.

[Larry Kart]

I may have mentioned this before, but on page 99 of Ira Gitler's "Swing To Bop," Benny Bailey is quoted as follows: "During Miles' early formative years, they shared an apartment in New York, and Freddie, being more experienced than Miles, was sort of schooling Miles. I happen to know for instance that on the recording of 'Billie's Bounce' that Miles made with Charlie Parker, his solo was exactly the one that Freddie played for this particular blues. Evidently, Miles said that he was nervous on the date and couldn't think of anything to play, so he did Freddie's solo note for note."

I'd add that both Bailey (b. 1925) and Webster (b. 1917) were from Cleveland, so there probably was some background there, and that that 'Billie's Bounce' solo is excellent and, IMO, not much like anything else that Miles played before or since.

[John L]

Interesting!

[Brownian Motion]

Freddie did a date with Sammy Price--I think it was '44. It's on Classics. And if memory serves Freddie played with Jimmie Lunceford in 1942, and cut a solo or 2 with the band, but I don't have the specifics.

[brownie]

There is a dynamite solo by Freddie Webster in the March 1945 Georgie Auld Orchestra version

of 'Co-Pilot'. Dizzy Gillespie was also in the trumpet section but Webster is the one who solos.

This was recorded for Musicraft and was last available on a Georgie Aiuld 'Handicap' Discovery CD reissue.

Just one solo. But a beauty!

Lawrence Kart already mentioned the Ira Gitler classic book 'Swing to Bop'! The book also includes a quote

from Art Pepper who was 18 at the time (1943):

'When I was in Benny Carter's band, I was with Freddie Webster, and we roomed together a lot. He had the

greatest, the most huge sound, and down low it was just gigantic. I never heard anybody who had a sound

that bid down low. He was just a little cat, too. He always carried a loaded gun with him in his pocket, always

- never without it'.

[Free For All]

Thanks for all the info and suggestions, guys- you've enlightened me.

[John L]

Given that all of this material is in the public domain in Europe, why doesn't some company do the jazz world a favor and make a single disk with all of Freddie Webster's recorded solos? That would be an extremely interesting and enlightening collection.

[mikeweil]

Because he always was and will be a musicians' or connoisseurs' musician!

Edited August 28, 2003 by mikeweil

[Trumpet Guy]

How 'bout recordings of trumpeter Victor Coulson?

[Brad]

From all that read, I'd heard he was underrecorded, especially as mentioned in Gitler's book. He's also mentioned somewhat in Gitler's other book, The Masters of Bebop in which he said that he recorded some solos with Lucky Millinder's band (How About That Mess and Savoy) and Earl Hines' band (Yellow Fire and Windy City Jive). His best known work is on Sarah Vaughan's You're Not the Kind and If You Could See Me Now. Dizzy apparently called his sound "the best I ever heard". He was, according to Gitler, harmonically and in spirit one of the early players in modern jazz. He was only around 30 when he died.

BTW, if you have a chance to pick up any of the Xanadu Bebop Revisited series, don't miss the chance. They're fabulous records. As far as I know they have not been reissued on CD, although there was one on cd involving Bird, which I got outbid on unfortunately.

[brownie]

Freddie Webster is also heard - a few bars - in the 1942 Jimmie Lunceford record 'Knock Me a Kiss'. Have this on LP but is is also on the Classics CD Jimmie Lunceford 1941-1945

[Trumpet Guy]

Thanks Brad!Interesting stuff---I also read about Coulson in "Swing To Bop"--one guy said he was like Fats,but another made him sound more understated than Fats.

[mikeweil]

BTW, if you have a chance to pick up any of the Xanadu Bebop Revisited series, don't miss the chance. They're fabulous records. As far as I know they have not been reissued on CD, although there was one on cd involving Bird, which I got outbid on unfortunately.

A great series of LPs, indeed. One of the last things I completed before I stopped buying LPs. Some material has been issued on CD in the Chronological Clasics series, on Ocium or whereever it fit into place.

[mmilovan]

ghost of miles,

fine. I must subscribe to this two CD's. Freddie Webster - it all sounds so wild interesting.

[ghost of miles]

"The Man Before Miles: Freddie Webster" will air on Night Lights on Saturday, Sept. 10.

[medjuck]

I'm there !

[brownie]

I'll be listening in

[Kalo]

"The Man Before Miles:  Freddie Webster" will air on Night Lights on Saturday, Sept. 10.

←

Looking forward to this!

[AllenLowe]

Webster is a fasinating figure - I've always felt his playing reflects a strange and unresolved tension between the older style of playing and the new, and that he was never completely formed as a soloist before his early death -

[bichos]

There is a dynamite solo by Freddie Webster in the March 1945 Georgie Auld Orchestra version

of 'Co-Pilot'. Dizzy Gillespie was also in the trumpet section but Webster is the one who solos.

This was recorded for Musicraft and was last available on a Georgie Aiuld 'Handicap' Discovery CD reissue.

Just one solo. But a beauty!

'.

←

hi,

the trumpet solo on the georgie auld track "co-pilot" from march 28. 1945 is definitly dizzy gillespie and not freddie webster! it´s also on the masters of jazz cd mjcd 110 volume 5 in the gillespie serie (media 7). solos are dizzy, auld and tony aless,p,. it´s a typical dizzy solo. you can hear some of his typical signatures.

btw there are more freddie webster sessions with the following leaders (according to bruyninckx discography):

louis jordan 1941

sabby lewis 1944

johnny powell 1947

billy eckstine 1944

billie holiday 1944

and

"it is said that he recorded in the late 40´s with a large band, details are lacking. freddie webster, tp, wade marcus, tb, tadd dameron, arr, (?)"

anybody knows more about that??

is there any chance to get the mentioned cd-r(s) with the "complete" freddie webster?

keep boppin´

marcel