Let's Reopen Old Wounds!

[JSngry]

On the positive side, this has to be a new record in how long Norah has been mentioned without anyone bringing up who her proud papa is.

Papa Jo?

[seeline]

Well, thanks, Jim - I wasn't assuming that you thought I'd come over in the Mariel crew! (Not kidding: I knew a handful, back in the day - they weren't all criminals, but some definitely were!)

[Dan Gould]

This thread is over a year old and had lain dormant for a good while. It was reopened exactly why? So the author of the orignally quoted article (apparently an AAJ regular) could come in, call attention to themselves, and stir up some more of the same old shit? What else am I missing here?

I smell sabotage here. Call me crazy, but the previous reference to Castro was intended.

If I'm wrong, apologies. If not, hey.

Well, my take is that he came here, discovered that his article was the subject of a lengthy thread, and bumped it by posting his reaction. But it was me who got the pot boiling again by taking exception to what I considered an accusation of misogyny that had no real basis in fact.

[Christiern]

All is forgiven, Dan--you were just being your old self.

Do you see Ms. Jones as a WMD(Woman of Mass Destruction)?

Edited March 4, 2008 by Christiern

[JSngry]

Well, thanks, Jim - I wasn't assuming that you thought I'd come over in the Mariel crew! (Not kidding: I knew a handful, back in the day - they weren't all criminals, but some definitely were!)

I was at the Village Gate for a "Salsa Meets Jazz" session one night back when when some Mariel refugees/drummers came up on break and jammed for about 15-20 minutes. bvSome heavy shit, that was! I think the main gig was Baretto/Donaldson. Sal Cuevas was on bass, and that was a real treat.

I'm wanting to say that somebody who was in that group of drumming refugees went on to become somewaht of a "name" ehre in the US, but darned if ?I know who.

[seeline]

Daniel Ponce, maybe?

[paul secor]

Daniel Ponce, maybe?

Think you're correct.

[JSngry]

This thread is over a year old and had lain dormant for a good while. It was reopened exactly why? So the author of the orignally quoted article (apparently an AAJ regular) could come in, call attention to themselves, and stir up some more of the same old shit? What else am I missing here?

I smell sabotage here. Call me crazy, but the previous reference to Castro was intended.

If I'm wrong, apologies. If not, hey.

Well, my take is that he came here, discovered that his article was the subject of a lengthy thread, and bumped it by posting his reaction. But it was me who got the pot boiling again by taking exception to what I considered an accusation of misogyny that had no real basis in fact.

Hey, whatever. It just seems that a few people have shown up here lately whose main intent seems to be "analyzing" this community, mostly for the flaws (real or imagined). Then when they get called on it (either politely or in patented Gould-illa style ), they get all passive-agressive and shit.

It does make one take pause, it does....

[JSngry]

Daniel Ponce, maybe?

Think you're correct.

Bingo!

[Big Al]

Within days of Norah Jones winning the Grammy's, the traditional fan base logged onto their favorite home away from home to find that half of it was gone. Huge quantities of posts (including all of the political, sports-related, and anti-Norah Jones posts) just disappeared, along with an irreplaceable oral history of the jazz world chronicled in thousands of posts. The reaction of the community was swift and loud. Conspiracy theories, cries of betrayal, a few people pleading calm in the vain hope that some of the more historical posts would be put back all unfolded in a few hours of the news spreading. The loyal fan base felt stabbed in the back and they knew who to blame: Norah Jones. And that's when they started to move.

Up to that last line, I agree completely. We did feel betrayed. But IIRC, it wasn't Norah who we blamed: it was Blue Note for destroying our online home-away-from-home; it was the Norah Jones crazies who came in and started a whole bunch of Norah-related threads and then got pissy (by way of spam threads) when no one wanted to play with them. It's like the uninvited guests who come in, clean out your fridge, piss on your walls, and then wonder why you won't be more gracious to them. Yes, we ran off Norah, and for that a mirror should be held up to our collective scuzzy faces. But I also believe we can be forgiven for feeling like we'd not only been ambushed but also kicked out of our own home.

There were a couple of posts for alternative sites where the now-crazed swarm of angry enthusiasts might find a new home. And, off they went like a plague of locusts descending on unsuspecting sites. The Blue Note fanatics swamped smaller sites unaccustomed to the large mass and crashed their modest servers. The Blue Note mob brought down every other jazz site it landed on due to their numbers and massive usage. They also brought the ire up of the community they were displacing; these other communities started complaining about the rude Blue Noters that had invaded them like a conquering horde.

Quite honestly, I don't know how you can read the above remarks and, as a member of the old BNBB, not feel unnecessarily slammed. A "swarm of angry enthusiasts?" "A plague of locusts?" "Fanatics?" Remember, we were and are a community, and a rather large one at that, who literally had the rug yanked out from under them. What would you expect us to do? Disappear? Some of the strongest friendships I have are right here on this board. I'm sure your psychiatrist friend would have a field day with that, but that's the way it is.

So yeah, the bulk of us feel a tad insulted. Sue us.

[JSngry]

Well, it's not so much that it's insulting as it is that it's bad writing. "Swarm", "plague", horde", "mob", geez... it reads like a "pretty good" sports article in a high-school newspaper.

Or a sportscast on KNTU....

[Big Beat Steve]

Not having been around at the times of the BNBB and not wanting to pass lightly over the feelings of diehard BNBB'ists but I do find this thread both instructive and entertaining (beyond the fact that Norah Jones just is NOT jazz .

Now maybe somebody ought to place a link to this thread over on the AAJ forum and see what happens THEN? :D

[Christiern]

Not having been around at the times of the BNBB and not wanting to pass lightly over the feelings of diehard BNBB'ists but I do find this thread both instructive and entertaining (beyond the fact that Norah Jones just is NOT jazz .

Now maybe somebody ought to place a link to this thread over on the AAJ forum and see what happens THEN? :D

Hmmm, that's where you'll find some of the most myopic BN worshippers.

[Big Beat Steve]

Yeah, that's the impression I sometimes get too.

Maybe they'd have got the BIG canisters handy to really fuel the debate?

[JSngry]

Big cannisters, eh?

Now who's being sexist?

[JSngry]

Wouldn't it be cool if this thread becomes subject of another article that gets published years after the fact and without the knowledge of its subjects?

[seeline]

Daniel Ponce, maybe?

Think you're correct.

Bingo!

Hey, I was in the throes of grad school at the time, so I'm kind of amazed that I remembered this correctly! Lots of things from those days are a bit of a blur.

[Christiern]

I don't know if throwing this ball in AAJ's direction would be such a good idea. Hmmmm...let's see...Mr. "Jazzcritic" will pontificate (with a mention of his big collection); Mike4-whatever will say how wonderful BN was to recognize the world-class, extraordinary talent of a certain corporate trumpeter; and the management will come up with 43 threads of press releases. Then that guy from Ottowa will step in a check for political content, eliminating whatever is left of center.

[7/4]

Oh...so this was looking like

an old BN thing,

but it's also

an AAJ thing?

Sheesh.

[Aggie87]

Oh...so this was looking like

an old BN thing,

but it's also

an AAJ thing?

Sheesh.

The only connection I see is that maybe it was one of the sites that we apparently raped and pillaged in 2003, before settling in here.

[JSngry]

Oh...so this was looking like

an old BN thing,

but it's also

an AAJ thing?

Sheesh.

SYNERGY!!!

[Shawn]

Bill, don't be turned off to "O" by a couple of misguided members.

Hey Jim,

Can you change me from "Master of the Groove" to "Misguided Member"?

Edited March 4, 2008 by Shawn

[jazzypaul]

It's kinda funny that this has stirred up 13 pages and 180+ posts.

Who cares? We're all here now, aren't we?

[analogak]

bad job outta you guys in a big spot, sounding like pathetic losers having to take unnecessary bitter sour grapes pot shots.

[Robert J]

Hey, remember when Castro needed some breathing room & let all the criminals and loonies go free & then aimed e'ma ll at America?

Wasn't that a fun time for everybody?

It seems to be a trend..... expulsion and refuge