Hot Ptah Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I don't think that anyone has mentioned Bheki Mseleku. I have enjoyed his albums, especially "Celebration". I would be interested in what the contributors to this thread, who know far more about South African jazz than I do, think about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob C Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I don't think that anyone has mentioned Bheki Mseleku. I have enjoyed his albums, especially "Celebration". I would be interested in what the contributors to this thread, who know far more about South African jazz than I do, think about him. I was in S.A. on vacation last month. Didn't get to any record stores, unfortunately, other than one at the Jo'burg airport! But that store did have a small "local jazz" section. Didn't want to pass up the opportunity to get some local stuff, but didn't know most of the players (and was, anyway, wary of an airport store's selection). So, somewhat randomly, I bought Mseleku's "Home". I had never heard of him, but I saw that one tune namechecked Monk, and another was called "Mbizo", so I figured it couldn't be TOO bad. Actually, I like it quite a bit. So, I don't know much about him, either, but I was also curious to know what people think of him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 But that store did have a small "local jazz" section. It has a big Gospel section, doesn't it? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob C Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 But that store did have a small "local jazz" section. It has a big Gospel section, doesn't it? MG I think it was bigger than the jazz section, anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 But that store did have a small "local jazz" section. It has a big Gospel section, doesn't it? MG I think it was bigger than the jazz section, anyway.... Yes - there was so much choice, I didn't buy any MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 There's a previously-unreleased 1971 Brotherhood of Breath concert out: Eclipse at Dawn Saw it at my local record shop today & plan to pick it up next week. It's been mentioned over here: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=38875 I shall have to get this, but I still also need the other classic BoB albums, first... and there are a couple of other live discs available (Bremen To Bridgewater, and I think one more, also the Harry Miller Isipingo one) Eclipse at Dawn is better than either Travelling Somewhere or Bremen to Bridgewater, IMO. Don't worry about "first" - it's better to start with something unequivocally good. I can say that, for a fact, the Berlin Jazztage performance is the finest BoB live recording I've heard. That goes not only for fidelity, but the quality of musical statements contained therein. I cannot recommend this disc highly enough - it is unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Got my package from Kalahari in South Africa today - only took about three weeks to get here These two are 1975 recordings by Ntemi Piliso, who later founded the African Jazz Pioneers. They were originally issued as four 12" LPs, one long track per side, as a sort of counter-inspiration to Abdullah Ibrahim's "Mannenberg", also a short LP. The sleeve notes are terribly interesting. I'll try to read them all in through the scanner later because they throw a lot of light on the SA reaction to Abdullah Ibrahim's return there. Apparently he was criticising SA jazz musicians left, right and centre. The notes quote Lulu Masilela, a saxophonist and organist. Ibrahim and his wife both played classical and jazz and this and that, and then he announced, "this is what is called music, unlike [your] African music, for instance like Mbaqanga. That is just mnyana phambile ["running in the dark"]. That's not music!" I was so angry! I said we are here to listen to him play. Now here it is he criticises what we are doing and what we are living on! To my thinking, he was trying to insult us musicians that cannot read and write music. Yes, that was definitely how I looked at it. And then a month later here comes this popular song ['Mannenburg' by] Dollar Brand! This same guy that once said this and this and this about our cultural music and to my ears this sounds like one of Bra Zacks' songs, and it is! I said to myself, how about re-recording this tune and play it the way it is [and] instead I will give the credit to Bra Zacks because this is Zacks Nkosi's song. Apprently Masilela's band The Movers did record Mannenburg for Teal records (must get that in my next order) and had the satisfaction of seeing the Mover's recording outsell Brand's "original". We blew it to pieces! We stopped it from selling! Wow! Wow! Anyway, this is wonderful stuff! Piliso started playing in big bands in about 1950 (he died in 2000) and is a bit of a multi-instrumentalist. "He played all the saxes up from baritone to soprano, filled in occasionally on piano, flute, mouth organ and drums, and he was also a very competent string bass player." These recordings are very much in the vein of Ibrahim's work at the time, but much more related to the community, much as, in the US, Soul Jazz was more closely related to the community than Hard Bop. (And these recordings were originally made for a Gallo subsidiary label called "Soul Jazz Pop"!) All the band members were working in Mbqanga and Piliso himself did arrangements for the Mahotella Queens. And that feeling pervades. And how can you not admire an album with two tracks - "Whole day bump" and "Whole night bump", eh? And I also got It's a bit faint - Linda Kekana - Kodumela - Gallo. I got her 2002 album, "I am an African" last year. This, from 2005, seems every bit as great as that one. I think the interesting sax player here is different from the guy on the earlier album, but I haven't checked in detail. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I can't find these Ntemi Piliso discs on kalahari.net!? Are they sold out? A search neither for Ntemi nor for Piliso brings the up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ah, I found them - they're listed as "At Mawuthela Vol.1/2", artists aren't logged - too bad. Anything else that should be ordered along with them, MG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ah, I found them - they're listed as "At Mawuthela Vol.1/2", artists aren't logged - too bad. Anything else that should be ordered along with them, MG? Yes, it's a pity the search function doesn't work for artists. I started out just browsing the site. The sleeve notes to the Bra Ntemi CDs mention a number which were going to feature in my next order. The Movers - Repeat after me - Gallo CDGB50 (this has the cover version of "Mannenburg" I quoted about above) Masilela & The Movers - Bump Jive - Gallo CDBG51 Lulu Masilela & Thomas Phale - Cool down - Gallo CDBG42 There's another Ntemi Piliso CD called "at Teal" something. Maybe a search for "Teal" will turn it up. I can't remember what it was I put in to reveal that one. Maybe it just came up while I was browsing. Those are 1976 recordings. Perhaps a search for "Teal 1976" might do the trick. It's probably also worth doing a search for "sip 'n fly", which was a title of a Ntemi session in 1954, at which he and Masilela were the only youngsters - everyone else was a veteran. It was a band Ntemi put together called the Alexandra All Stars (sometimes spelt "Alaxander"). This surely must have some historically pretty significant players on it. It was a big hit, so may be on CD. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Ah, I found them - they're listed as "At Mawuthela Vol.1/2", artists aren't logged - too bad. Anything else that should be ordered along with them, MG? Yes, it's a pity the search function doesn't work for artists. I started out just browsing the site. The sleeve notes to the Bra Ntemi CDs mention a number which were going to feature in my next order. The Movers - Repeat after me - Gallo CDGB50 (this has the cover version of "Mannenburg" I quoted about above) Masilela & The Movers - Bump Jive - Gallo CDBG51 Lulu Masilela & Thomas Phale - Cool down - Gallo CDBG42 There's another Ntemi Piliso CD called "at Teal" something. Maybe a search for "Teal" will turn it up. I can't remember what it was I put in to reveal that one. Maybe it just came up while I was browsing. Those are 1976 recordings. Perhaps a search for "Teal 1976" might do the trick. It's probably also worth doing a search for "sip 'n fly", which was a title of a Ntemi session in 1954, at which he and Masilela were the only youngsters - everyone else was a veteran. It was a band Ntemi put together called the Alexandra All Stars (sometimes spelt "Alaxander"). This surely must have some historically pretty significant players on it. It was a big hit, so may be on CD. MG Thanks! Ntemi Piliso - At Mavuthela Vol. 1 1975 Ntemi Piliso - At Mavuthela Vol. 2 1975 Ntemi Piliso - At Teal Records 1976 African Jazz Pioneers - Sip'n'Fly Lulu Masilela & Thomas Phale - Cool Down Will send in an order later, thanks a lot! Prices are indeed pretty nice, and waiting a while is not problem at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Thanks for posting those links - my guess is that the AJP version of "Sip 'n fly" is not the original 1954 version. But it should be well worth getting. I'll send in a new order when my order from Ghana turns up MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 The Movers I was unable to find, by the way - is that and the Masilea/Phale "jazz", too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 The Movers I was unable to find, by the way - is that and the Masilea/Phale "jazz", too? Don't know. I just picked up the references from the Piliso sleeve note. Did you try searching for the album titles? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 The Movers I was unable to find, by the way - is that and the Masilea/Phale "jazz", too? Don't know. I just picked up the references from the Piliso sleeve note. Did you try searching for the album titles? MG Yup - maybe you'll be luckier than me, post the link in case, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 The Movers I was unable to find, by the way - is that and the Masilea/Phale "jazz", too? Don't know. I just picked up the references from the Piliso sleeve note. Did you try searching for the album titles? MG Yup - maybe you'll be luckier than me, post the link in case, please! Perhaps those are out of print. I'll give it a go, when I look back in there. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Well, since my Ghanaian CDs came in the other day, I thought I'd get back to Kalahari. I got Bra Ntemi Piliso - at Teal Lulu Masilela "Cool down" both of which you found Flurin I also discovered how to work the search function. Above the search text box there's a dro down menu, with the word "keyword" in it. If you hit the down arrow, one of the options is "artist". If you select that, it finds artists OK. The trouble is, that menu ges back to "keyword" every time, so for each search you have to reset it to "artist". Pain in the arse! But, using it, I also found Lulu Masilela - Super jive hits Robbie Jansen - Nomad jez (Robbie used to play with Abdullah I - I have an earlier CD of his on the same label - he cooker! And great live - saw him on TV once) Zacks Nkosi (the guy who wrote the original "Mannenberg") - Our kind of jazz Zacks Nkosi - Tribute 6 CDs for about 23 quid (inc post) - very happy with this little lot. There are a few Jonas Gwangwas there, too - but I decided 6 was enough for one load. Funny, when you browse jazz, you don't get any Abdullah Ibrahim, but if you search for his name, you do... MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Thanks, my order is still pending, will mail it in in a few days though and will look for Jansen and Gwangwa, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 just sent in my order for the following seven: Bra Ntemi - At Mavuthela - Vol.1 1975, At Mavuthela - Vol.2 1975, At Teal Records 1976 African Jazz Pioneers - Sip 'n' Fly Masilela/Phale - Cool Down Winston Mankunku - Yakhal'inkomo Robbie Jansen - Nomad Jez some items are listed with ten days delivery time, so if Kalahari works like amazon AND the shipping takes two months, I'll report back in summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 some items are listed with ten days delivery time, so if Kalahari works like amazon AND the shipping takes two months, I'll report back in summer Yes, they (wisely) hold the whole order until it's filled - 10 days, then my last parcel took three weeks from dispatch to reach me. I don't know why it takes so much longer from South Africa than Ghana. You'ld expect the reverse to be the case. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 well, three weeks beats Mosaic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 Just got confirmation from Kalahari that my order has been dispatched - but the Bra Ntemi at Teal 1976 has been omitted because it's out of stock (I assume at Gallo). I'd be interested to know if you're getting your copy, Flurin. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 8, 2008 Report Share Posted April 8, 2008 I've had no news since sending in the order - too bad! Will let you know of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Just got my shipping confirmation mail - the whole order is filled, including At Teal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 Just got my shipping confirmation mail - the whole order is filled, including At Teal! Struth!!!!!! Where's the smiley for "heavily aggrieved to the point of actual anguish"? I guess I'll include it in the next order. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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