chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 my basie disc is a good find today, but i dont wanna be suprised anymore not with a label thats 50 years old or whatever- when were these discs printed? how many different artists are represented on them? Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Posted February 16, 2007 also alto, session, etc i know of some birds, mingus, ive seen this weird gene krupa aircheck disc (the cover is very yellow), the wardell, billie holiday, what other artists are covered? Quote
king ubu Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 Miles, the Coltrane/Dolphy Session, the Mingus/Taylor one, I think some of the Tadd Dameron live stuff was on Ozone, too (also on other similar labels, one called "UltTadd"...) I used to see this in the one jazz vinyl store here in Zurich, they moved out of town now and I haven't been there for a while, no idea if they still have these boots. Very cheap production, btw, no info on musicians/dates, just the leader and the songs on the front cover, back cover is empty... Quote
king ubu Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 googling a bit I found this list here: Alto record label 703 Dizzy Gillespie 704 Stan Getz 705 Woody Herman 710 Duke Ellington 713 Sarah Vaughan 714 Charles Mingus 715 Bud Powell 719 Bill Evans 721 Buddy Rich 722 Cannonball Adderley 723 Herbie Mann Session record label 125 Esquire Jazz Concert 126 Fletcher Henderson Ozone record label 3 Billy Holiday 11 Oscar Peterson 12 Duke Ellington,Ben Webster,Billie Holiday 17 Dizzy Gillespie,Sarah Vaughan 20 John Handy,Bill Evans 22 Ben Webster 23 Junior Mance 24 Sonny Stitt Posted over at AAJ in January. Maybe this chap has a list of all releases, why not drop him a PM over there? (or is he a member here, too?) Quote
king ubu Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 The Mingus ones, courtesy of the unauthorized releases list on the Mingus page: Alto Records AL 714 - Vital Savage Horizons Session Disk 118 - Hooray for Charles Mingus Ozone 1014 - Charlie Mingus Cecil Taylor I only have the Ozone one of these, but I've seen Session 118 in that store as well. Quote
brownie Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 chewy, bookmark this page: http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Labels/index.html A very useful tool! Quote
king ubu Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 chewy, bookmark this page: http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Labels/index.html A very useful tool! Alas they only have a listing of the Alto releases! Quote
brownie Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 chewy, bookmark this page: http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Labels/index.html A very useful tool! Alas they only have a listing of the Alto releases! Ubu, you're sounding more and more like a Frenchman Ozone releases: 1- Miles Davis with JJ and Getz, also - but without Miles -Dick Hyman, Gene Ammons and Stitt 2- Charlie Parker/Miles Davis/Lee Konitz Bird with strings, Miles tuba band 3- Billie Holiday at Esquire concert, Sound of Jazz 4- Charlie Parker/Fats Navarro/Bud Powell 1950 Birdland and Bird with Machito 5- Fats Navarro/Tadd Dameron Royal Roost broadcasts 6- Wardell Gray 7- Miles Davis/Lockjaw Davis/Art Blakey Birdland broadcasts 8- Miles Davis All Stars more Birdland with Don Elliott and McLean 9- Charlie Parker/Bud Powell/Fats Navarro more from Birdland 10- John Coltrane/Eric Dolphy Birdland broadcast 11- Oscar Peterson/Lee Morgan not together! OP trio at Bandbox, Lee Morgan with Jimmy Heath November 1962 12- Duke Ellington/Ben Webster/Billie Holiday 48-49 broadcasts 13- Stan Kenton 1962 broadcasts 14- Leonard Bernstein/Dave Brubeck Dialogue for Jazz combo, etc... 15-Coleman Hawkins 1952 Birdland broadcasts with Howard McGhee, Horace Silver 16- The Modern Jazz Quartet 1957 Birdland broadcasts 17- Dizzy Gillespie/Sarah Vaughan 1949 Royal Roost broadcasts 18- Miles Davis/Sonny Rollins Birdland broadcast plus Sound of Jazz with Trane and Gil Evans 19- Charles Mingus/Cecil Taylor Mingus at Birdland 1962, CT 1966 date 20- John Handy/Bill Evans Handy Birdland 1960, Evans/LaFaro/Motian Birdland 1960 21- John Coltrane THE JC quartet at Birdland 1963 and 1965 22- Ben Webster and the MJQ Birdland 1953 23- Junior Mance Trio 1961 broadcasts 24- Sonny Stitt Quartet 1962 and 1963 broadcasts 25- Gene Krupa Trio 1953 broadcasts Quote
king ubu Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 should I say "hélas!" next time? Quote
king ubu Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 Ozone releases: 5- Fats Navarro/Tadd Dameron Royal Roost broadcasts 10- John Coltrane/Eric Dolphy Birdland broadcast 18- Miles Davis/Sonny Rollins Birdland broadcast plus Sound of Jazz with Trane and Gil Evans 19- Charles Mingus/Cecil Taylor Mingus at Birdland 1962, CT 1966 date These I have! Had them way before I got any other live recordings or boots and was pretty excited to have them (plus that UltTadd and another Dameron/Navarro, plus a Chakra Miles, all similar b/w or black/blue layout with empty back covers and no information). Quote
brownie Posted February 16, 2007 Report Posted February 16, 2007 should I say "hélas!" next time? Oui, monsieur! And pity poor Johnny Hallyday who after selecting Switzerland to evade his tax obligations is now seeking to take his money to the Monaco tax heaven. Seems Monaco is an even better deal for the tax-evading Rich nowadays Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted February 16, 2007 Author Report Posted February 16, 2007 wow! thanks guys-- i did a google - didnt come up w/ anything o ther than the mingus info!!! what was the tiimeframe these lps were pressed? how long did he offer these for sale? Quote
erhodes Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 wow! thanks guys-- i did a google - didnt come up w/ anything o ther than the mingus info!!! what was the tiimeframe these lps were pressed? how long did he offer these for sale? I note that chewy has bounced up against the Ozone cum Rose thing in a couple of recent threads. There's a current one on Wardell Gray that covers much of the same turf. And chewy asked some questions about Rose awhile back and was referred to earlier threads. I didn't comment then because Marty Jazz is the best source of info on Rose anyway so I figured what's the point. But since it keeps coming up here's 1 1/2 cents... It's something of a losing battle to treat Rose's output the way you might treat Blue Note or Prestige disks. None of these were labels in the same sense. It was all Rose and, for instance, he sometimes issued the same material on different labels...I'm thinking here of some Coltrane dates that came out on both Session and Ozone. I mean...if you want to treat them as collectables in their own right, fine though even there it will be all over the map. The Jazz Record Center use to routinely sell Rose items for $8 long after they were out of print...which is a fair indication of what most of them are worth. OTOH, the ones that everyone is after disappeared long ago and I have no idea what you'd have to pay on ebay. Also, the Rose disks are not necessarily the best source for the music. Much of the material has been issued more completely in the cd era, e.g., Fresh Sound. And Rose's stuff has been re-booted mercilessly by the Europeans...which means that critical dates are available on all sorts of lp's and cd's besides the original issues. This goes from Parker to Mingus and beyond. I also note, chewy (switching now to the 2nd person), that you have complained about buying the same music multiple times because you don't know what's on a record vs. what you may already have. My sense is that most of the people on this board have gotten to the point...for many of us it happened a long time ago. That's what pushes you into more systematic discographical studies and the world of artist sessionographies. I've found it's the only way not to waste my money. Bottom line, you go by artists, you become familiar with the dates, you decided on which ones you want, and you learn what commercial issues contain them...and you can concern yourselves with details like what's the most complete and what has the best sound quality. If you do it this way then the original Rose disks become just a part of your strategy. Again, if you want to treat them as collectables, that's another thing...I wish you luck. If you want the music, you should be aware of what instances Rose is the source...and there are a lot of those instances...but buying every Rose disk you come upon will give you some fairly spotty results. This is not great news, I know, but I promise you that I've been where you are and after awhile.... FWIW, the documentation I have seen shows Rose recordings from 1948 to 1974 but many sources say that this is incomplete. Most of them were never issued commercially. I thought for sure that there were some recordings that date back to 1946 but that could be those fissures in my brain acting up. Most of the 40's material was from the Symphony Sid show and I believe some of the announcements may have the radio station call letters...though I haven't the slightest idea what they were. At one point it was WADO but I think that's later. Also, you should know that Rose taped a lot of other material besides jazz. He was big on radio theater and radio broadcasts of, IIRC, broadway shows. I was also told that he taped things like major political speeches and some of his earliest acetates were of material like that. As for when most of the disks were pressed, I'll defer to folks on this board who say it was the 70's. My own corroded recollections push it back a little farther then that but there's a lot of interference in there... Rose is a very interesting story but I recommend you follow the music first. Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted February 17, 2007 Author Report Posted February 17, 2007 THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT. JOLLY GOOD SHOW. 1970s huh? i am suprised they were pressed that late. yes there is a coltrane side a/amonons side b disc on session i saw (the only one at the store marked 15, not 5) - and the ammmons is from a early 70s tv b'cast. you did such a good job id hate to press the topic into the ground, but the last thing you noted-- i was thinking, are there any other key points about how boris rose operated and his biography i should be aware of. ALL THE RECORDS I HAVE OF HIS ARE VERY SPECIAL TO ME. although i dont have the print discogs like you do w/ the bird espically, ive been good about not really duplicating-- the ones i have bought are amazing ones i have not seen on cd, even if that are on cd- eg. bird w/ the herd..... Quote
erhodes Posted February 17, 2007 Report Posted February 17, 2007 ...the last thing you noted-- i was thinking, are there any other key points about how boris rose operated and his biography i should be aware of. ALL THE RECORDS I HAVE OF HIS ARE VERY SPECIAL TO ME. although i dont have the print discogs like you do w/ the bird espically, ive been good about not really duplicating-- the ones i have bought are amazing ones i have not seen on cd, even if that are on cd- eg. bird w/ the herd..... I believe Marty Jazz and others filled in some details on that old thread that you were referred to when you opened a thread something like, "Who is this guy Boris Rose". I don't have much to add. Rose lived on East 10th Street (12th?...I think it was 10th) in what is called the East Village (NYC). He had a rack of Crown tape recorders during a period when Crown was the most expensive consumer tape deck you could buy. He taped a bunch of stuff for several decades and issued some of it on his own lp's and a couple of cd's (the cd label was Yadeon). Most of the live stuff from the 40's recorded at the Royal Roost - Bird, Miles, Tadd Dameron, Dizzy's big band - originates with Rose. A ton of Birdland and Cafe Bohemia material from the 50's - Miles, Mingus, Trane - and Mingus' Birdland dates from the 60's...and I'm focusing on the stuff that I've collected. There's a ton of big band material...just about everything you can imagine that dates to the decades in which he was recording. A lot of it has turned up on "legit" labels. Columbia's "Birth of the Cool" live material was licensed from Rose as was the early 50's...1950?...Birdland set with Bird, Miles, Fats Navarro, et al, that came out on Columbia Contemporary Masters. But I'm really not the one to supply these details. I mean...Mike Fitzgerald is on this board...or use to be... My point to you is best illustrated by Coltrane's Half Note material. Rose taped at least three of the 1965 broadcasts: March 19, April 2, and May 7. He may have also taped the March 26 date. The only thing he issued was half of the May 7 date, on Ozone 21. The flip side of that record has the February 23, 1963 Birdland date. Now...if you want the Half Note material and you're thinking in terms of commerical issues...boots or otherwise...the Blue Parrott - "Brazilia" (AP705) - is more complete. It has the whole May 7 date, albeit with the announcers voice overs edited out (which chops off the version of "My Favorite Things"). The new Verve/Impulse is also complete and has the added advantage of being in stereo...because it's sourced from the station airchecks rather than Rose's mono home recordings. And then there's the issue of the other three dates, one of which is included in the Verve issue. So...do you want Ozone 21 or do you want the Coltrane Half Note material? Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Posted February 18, 2007 i want clifford jordan: soul fountain!!!!!!!!! Quote
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