Ornette Coleman Atlantic recordings

[sal]

I really want to pick up more of Ornette's Atlantic recordings like "Shape of Jazz to Come", "Change of the Century" and "This is Our Music", but I don't want to get the older CD versions that are out in most record shops. Does anyone know if there are better, remastered versions of these albums out there? I know Rhino remastered "Free Jazz", but I didn't see any more newer versions of the albums in the bin. Before anyone offers their much appreciated help, I must point out:

- I can't afford the "Beauty is a Rare Thing" box set and

- I don't want to buy any expensive Japanesse imports

Do I have any other options to pick up these albums? Thanks much!

[Rooster_Ties]

Save up for the box set, would be my advice. You're gonna want all of it.

Looks like there's one right now at half.com for $70.00 plus $2.50 in postage.

And the last one that sold on eBay went for $55.50 plus $5.00 postage.

[John Tapscott]

I really want to pick up more of Ornette's Atlantic recordings like "Shape of Jazz to Come", "Change of the Century" and "This is Our Music", but I don't want to get the older CD versions that are out in most record shops. 

Sal: Could I ask why not? I have all Ornette's Atlantic LP's, and therefore have never picked up the CD's. But the LP sound is great, so I can't imagine there would be anything wrong with the older CD's.

[kazak]

Sepia Tone reissued This Is Our Music in 2002. It sounds pretty good, but I don't have the old Atlantic to A/B it against.

[J.A.W.]

This Is Our Music - remastered reissue, sounds great

English remastered version of Change of the Century - don't know how it sounds, though.

[sal]

Hey John - I guess the reason I put up this post is because I am one of those people who when I started getting into jazz about 5 years ago, I didn't know about "audiophile" CDs, "remasters", "Super Bit Mapping" and all that stuff. And I ended up buying old versions of many albums that I didn't know had newer, better sounding versions out there, or that were sonicaly upgraded not long after I purchased the old versions. To put it simply, I felt I got jipped, and now I have learned my lesson and I investigate for the best possible sonic sources, or I just wait for sonicaly better versions to come out. And since I figured that these Ornette albums have not been reissued since the early 90s, I assumed that there must be better versions out there, or there will be soon. That is the only reason I've held off on getting those Atlantic albums.

Rooster Ties, kazak, and J.A.W, thank you all very much for the information and suggestions.

[John Tapscott]

Sal, the only reason I asked was because I don't think you should anything put you off from getting this great music in one form or another. I kind of agree that you should probably save up for the box set. (I mean, I should buy it, too.) By the time you buy 3 or 4 of the upgraded CD's, you could have the whole box set. And I guarantee, this is music you'll never regret having.

Not quite as good as half.com, but not bad, either.

http://cheap-cds.com/surf/disps/065655

[Guest youmustbe]

The Rhino vinyl reissues sound great.

BTW I was comparing Stereo and Mono versions, different pressings of the original Atlantic Ornettes. They're ALL different! On some, the trumpet is out front, on others, it's squeeezed back....

In the end unless it's a really crappy remastering, it's all about the music!

No such thing as the 'perfect' sound.

Also, BTW, on the box set, the engineer fucked up Scott LaFaro in the mix. He took Scotty's small sound literally. Kills the music. The original engineers boosted his sound. Scotty was very hard to hear live, had his bridge low, to get fast action, sacrificed volume. The same with Charlie on This Is Our Music. The original, and the Rhino captures it, Charlie is overly miked. On the box set, the enginner brings him down, ruins the effect. But, to give the engineer props, on the LA sessions with Our Man Higgins, he does a great job...but then again, the original engineer nailed it.

One for the books: Aside from Walter Norris, who played piano on Something Else, Don Friedman toured with Ornette on piano before Ornette came to NYC. In fact, Ornette asked Sy Johnson to come to NY and join him at the Five Spot and play piano with the 'Quintet', as Ornette envisioned. But, he became such a hit without the piano, he let it go, and the rest is history.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

The only Friedman interaction I know of is a Don Cherry gig in Vancouver, BC in December 1957 - Cherry, Ornette, Friedman, Ben Tucker, and a drummer. Supposedly this was broadcast and taped but no one knows more.

Is there more information about a tour that Friedman made with this or a related band? Maybe it's in the Ornette bio - been a while since I looked at that.

Mike

[Chuck Nessa]

The importance/strength of the music outweighs any mastering variations. Get the music!!!! Worry about the details of remastering later. Damn this is depressing.

[Rooster_Ties]

I pretty much agree with what Chuck just said.

The sound quality on the box-set is quite good, and I've never had any reason to complain about it. And more importantly, I've never heard a CD release of this material that was nearly as bad as many of the late 80's BN releases.

Get the box set, is still my advice.

[Guest youmustbe]

Why is it depressing to talk about remastering?

What else do the 20-30 of us that still follow this music have, but to talk about the same things from one bulletin board to another, year after year?

[Dmitry]

What else do the 20-30 of us that still follow this music have, but to talk about the same things from one bulletin board to another, year after year?

Based on the "banish greg" poll there are 39 people!

[Noj]

What else do the 20-30 of us that still follow this music have, but to talk about the same things from one bulletin board to another, year after year?

Based on the "banish greg" poll there are 39 people!

Good God, how long have you guys been here anyway?

[sal]

What is "depressing" about asking for simple advice about mastering quality?

jesus christ......some of you take this shit way too seriously...

[paul secor]

There's nothing wrong (or depressing) about asking for advice about mastering quality - especially with the highly variable mastering jobs that we all have to contend with these days. I think that all Chuck and Rooster Ties were saying was that the Ornette box is of good quality and that the important thing is to hear the music and get to know it. Then if you feel the need, you can join the ranks of audiophiles and wanna be audiophiles (like myself) and make yourself as neurotic as you wish.

I'll just add my opinion that I think the Ornette box sounds fine. Get it, put it on, and sit back and listen to Ornette and the guys wail.

[John L]

I think what Chuck meant is that is is depressing to think that someone would wait for years to hear this music in anticipation of a sonic upgrade. There will always be sonic upgrades. Life is short. Ornette is now!

[JSngry]

Sal, you gotta realise that some of us came up in a time when LPs and crappy "phonographs" were all we had, and that we got heavily into the music in spite of oftentimes poor sound quality. Now maybe that's the equivalent of your dad (or grandfather) telling you how he had to walk to school 24 hours each way in 70 foot deep snow, but the point is that for those of us with that background, we'd listen to the music in ANY quality sound on ANY quality euipment and feel nourished by it.

Today, it's indeed a different story. The technology has been evolving quite rapidly and continues to do so. I certainly can't fault anybody wanting the best quality issue the first time out. You want to get it right the first time, right? Perfectly understandable. Just keep in mind that music such as this is going to grab you by the balls no matter WHAT the sound quality is. That's how strong it is.

FWIW, I've got all the LPs, but I bought the box for the unissued material and the documentation of the booklet. I probably listen to the LPs more just because old habbits die hard, but the box certainly sounds fine, and I'd not part with it for all the iced tea in Texas.

Bottom line for me - the sound on box is fine, and it's the only way I know of to get ALL the material, and ALL the material is what you're probably going to want eventually. The better remasterings should augment, not replace, the completeness of the box.

Just my opinion.

Edited August 28, 2003 by JSngry

[Rooster_Ties]

Mine too.

[P.D.]

Sal, you gotta realise that some of us came up in a time when LPs and crappy "phonographs" were all we had, and that we got heavily into the music in spite of oftentimes poor sound quality. Now maybe that's the equivalent of your dad (or grandfather) telling you how he had to walk to school 24 hours each way in 70 foot deep snow, but the point is that for those of us with that background, we'd listen to the music in ANY quality sound on ANY quality euipment and feel nourished by it.

When I started it was with 78's and a clockwork gramaphone ( had a nice green felt cover on the turntable) . The amazing advancei n technology of LPs had barely been introduced.

Now THAT"S depressing.

Imagine Ornette's music if 78's were still the method of distributing recorded music.

it would be short... but still sweet.

[sal]

JSngry - I completely agree with you....and I do understand where you and many others are coming from. I know that the music is great no matter what version you buy (I already own the old release of "Free Jazz). The only thing that upsets me sometimes is people's choice of words. I don't think I need to get into detail about this, just let me say to look at JSngry's post, and then look at the one on the first page that initially upset me. Both are saying the same thing, yet one is informative and well explained, where the other is just pissy & rude. Yes, I understand the music of Ornette Coleman might strike a sensitive nerve in some folks. But isn't this supposed to be vibrant, exciting music that should bring people together, not piss people off because a "newbie" to the music wants to get the most for his money?

[king ubu]

On www.warnerclassics.de you find some reissues of newer origin.

As I have the box, I don't know any of these, but the two series called "Atlantic Masters" and a (little older) "Atlantic Original Sound" are not bad. Anyway, I have no idea about the remastering quality of the Ornettes.

The "Atlantic Masters" include "Change of the Century" and "Free Jazz", the "Original Sound" includes "This Is Our Music". "Free Jazz" was also issued in the Rhino/Atlantic deluxe series.

But I would recommend the box, too! Was one of my first box sets, and it's sure worth every penny!

ubu

[JSngry]

Dude, sometimes exasperation is just love in too big a hurry (ask my kids...). I'd not get my feelings hurt if I was you.

Or as my old man used to say (for God only knows what reason), "Take a Dutchman for what he means, not what he says".

Edited August 28, 2003 by JSngry

[JSngry]

hey, lay off of the Dutch! We're a rude-in-the-mouth bunch, but really very soft-spoken!

I never understood where the old man got that one from. He himself was half Irish and half a variety of German called "Pennsylvania Dutch", and since I STILL don't know what the hell "Pennsylvania Dutch" are, I canonly conclude that he was proving his point by demonstrating it.

[sal]

By the way, thank you to all of you who helped me out! It looks as if I probably won't have this music for quite some time.....gonna have to save for the box set! But I'm sure it will be well worth the wait.