Who Wrote "The Theme"?

[medjuck]

When I was first listening to jazz in the early 60's many groups (local and visiting) ended their set by playing "The Theme" as recorded by Miles Davis in 1955. I'm pretty sure that on the Prestige releases he's credited as composer but on The Jazz Messengers Live in 1958 they end with it and Michael Cuscuna's notes refer to it as "Kenny Dorham's 'New York Theme' ".

Edited January 31, 2007 by medjuck

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

wouldnt be suprised if miles scammed it off of KD!

[donald byrd 4 EVA]

totally. miles is the puff daddy of jazz

[Scott Dolan]

When I was first listening to jazz in the early 60's many groups (local and visiting) ended their set by playing "The Theme" as recorded by Miles Davis in 1955. I'm pretty sure that on the Prestige releases he's credited as composer but on The Jazz Messengers Live in 1958 they end with it and Michael Cuscuna's notes refer to it as "Kenny Dorham's 'New York Theme' ".

Really?

Wasn't Boplicity credited to Miles mother for some legal reasons? I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly, I'm sure someone else can confirm or debunk.

But maybe KD wrote it but it was credited to Miles due to the strict contractual restrictions (i.e. players weren't in the credits, or were listed under another name, for certain albums because of their contract with another company)?

Dunno. I'm blue skying here. But it's an incredibly interesting question.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Scott Dolan

[Dan Gould]

On the Jazz Messengers Jazz Icons DVD, Blakey credits KD as the composer.

[Rooster_Ties]

Wasn't Boplicity credited to Miles mother for some legal reasons?

Don't know the reason, but IIRC, Boplicity is credited to Miles' mother (her maiden name too). Cleo Henry, as I recall (too lazy to get up and look, but I think that's right).

[Scott Dolan]

Wasn't Boplicity credited to Miles mother for some legal reasons?

Don't know the reason, but IIRC, Boplicity is credited to Miles' mother (her maiden name too). Cleo Henry, as I recall (too lazy to get up and look, but I think that's right).

Didn't I just say that?

[Larry Kart]

The answer to the original question is Richard Carpenter, of course.

[Rooster_Ties]

Wasn't Boplicity credited to Miles mother for some legal reasons?

Don't know the reason, but IIRC, Boplicity is credited to Miles' mother (her maiden name too). Cleo Henry, as I recall (too lazy to get up and look, but I think that's right).

Didn't I just say that?

I just was answering your question.

[Scott Dolan]

But you didn't.

Was it for legal reasons, or not?

[bertrand]

I believe a copyright deposit was found under KD's name.

This happened long before I started stalking the halls of the Library of Congress. IIRC, Don Sickler was involved.

Bertrand.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

and KD scammed it off of Bean Machine, Bean Machine scammed it off of Fletcher Henderson, Fletcher Henderson scammed it off of Jelly roll Morton, and Jelly Roll scammed it off a field of slaves who sung it as verse

[Tom Storer]

Which of its names are the official name: "The Theme," "52nd Street Theme," "New York Theme"... ?

[Clunky]

The answer to the original question is Richard Carpenter, of course.

who actually wrote "Walkin"

[Rosco]

"52nd Street Theme,"

Are you talking about the same tune?

[Rosco]

The answer to the original question is Richard Carpenter, of course.

who actually wrote "Walkin"

That was Gene Ammons.

[Niko]

The answer to the original question is Richard Carpenter, of course.

who actually wrote "Walkin"

That was Gene Ammons.

at aaj iirc they have a thread where it says that you are not supposed to discuss this question there anymore (Jimmy Mundy wrote Walkin)

still wondering who wrote all those Carpenter/Bruce compositions on the Chet Baker / George Coleman / Richard Carpenter sessions...

[Rosco]

From Miles' "autobiography":

Me and Gil wrote 'Boplicity' but credited it to my mother, Cleo Henry, because I wanted it in a different publishing house than the one I was signed with. So I just put her name on it.

[Swinging Swede]

The answer to the original question is Richard Carpenter, of course.

Nah, it's Eddie Vinson.

[Rosco]

Of course, we may be making a mistake by assuming that anyone 'wrote' 'The Theme'. We are, after all, talking about a riff tune based on the 'I Got Rhythm' changes. Sometimes these things just evolve on the bandstand, passed fom one player to the next. By default, whoever records it first gets the composer credit. Did Bird really 'write' 'Now's The Time'? Probably not.

[king ubu]

The answer to the original question is Richard Carpenter, of course.

Nah, it's Eddie Vinson.

Vinson wrote Four and another Miles staple... but I read somewhere that he officially let Miles have them since he was out of recording at that time, or something...

But I think it was Ozzie Cadena, and Carpenter ripped him off!

[Swinging Swede]

Did Bird really 'write' 'Now's The Time'? Probably not.

The Now's The Time/Hucklebuck riff had certainly been around a long time. It turns up on altoist Charles Pierce's recording of Bull Frog Blues from 1928. Pierce himself is credited as composer. Muggsy Spanier and Frank Teschemacher were the most prominent participants on that session, and they both solo.

[Swinging Swede]

Actually you can listen to Bull Frog Blues over at the Red Hot Jazz site:

http://www.redhotjazz.com/pierce.html

My CD says February 1928, but Red Hot Jazz lists it as January 1927.

[Rosco]

at aaj iirc they have a thread where it says that you are not supposed to discuss this question there anymore (Jimmy Mundy wrote Walkin)

still wondering who wrote all those Carpenter/Bruce compositions on the Chet Baker / George Coleman / Richard Carpenter sessions...

Yes, I've seen Walkin' (or 'Gravy') attributed to both.

Seems Carpenter's theft of Mundy's compositions isn't limited to 'Walkin''. This is from James Gavin's biography of Chet Baker, Deep In a Dream:

In the manner of the quickie bop-record dates of the fifties, when albums were done in a day with hardly any rehearsal. Baker and his group showed up at each session and basically winged it. Jimmy Mundy sat in the control room, anonymously churning out songs for which Carpenter took credit. "He was writing the next tune while we were recording the tune before," said [Kirk] Lightsey. Carpenter had brought along a bundle of Tadd Dameron's music, plus a few Sonny Stitt pieces on which he claimed coauthorship.

Seems like Carpenter ripped off everyone who came in contact with him.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Rosco

[Scott Dolan]

From Miles' "autobiography":

Me and Gil wrote 'Boplicity' but credited it to my mother, Cleo Henry, because I wanted it in a different publishing house than the one I was signed with. So I just put her name on it.

OK, so I was close.

Been a few years since I read the "autobiography".