Hank Mobley--Reach Out

[JSngry]

Thanks young sir...

MG

I have died and gone to heaven!

[JSngry]

it just so happens that the greatest musicians also had the greatest technique whether it be Rich , Coltrane, Mclauglin, Corea and so on.

So, you'd rather hear Buddy Rich drive the Basie band than Gus Johnson?

[Chas]

it just so happens that the greatest musicians also had the greatest technique whether it be Rich , Coltrane, Mclauglin, Corea and so on. of course having great technique doesn't mean you are a great musician, it is just one prerequsite.

So Basie , Ellington , Miles , Monk etc. are not great ?

I ask as someone who doesn't believe that primitivism or technical incompetence is the hallmark of authentic or expressive jazz . Technical sophistication is hardly the essence of greatness , let alone a prerequsite for it .

Seems to me it is possible to possess great musical understanding without having instrumental mastery . Wouldn't this be true of some of the great jazz arrangers for instance ?

[jazzhound]

it just so happens that the greatest musicians also had the greatest technique whether it be Rich , Coltrane, Mclauglin, Corea and so on. of course having great technique doesn't mean you are a great musician, it is just one prerequsite.

So Basie , Ellington , Miles , Monk etc. are not great ?

I ask as someone who doesn't believe that primitivism or technical incompetence is the hallmark of authentic or expressive jazz . Technical sophistication is hardly the essence of greatness , let alone a prerequsite for it .

Seems to me it is possible to possess great musical understanding without having instrumental mastery . Wouldn't this be true of some of the great jazz arrangers for instance ?

who says Miles didn't have great technique? we are talking about instrumentalists not composers. anyone who thinks you can play anything decent without good technique never picked up an instrument. Some guys had strange technique like blakey but I don't consider that bad technique.

[Chas]

anyone who thinks you can play anything decent without good technique never picked up an instrument.

I don't think anyone on this board will argue what is essentially a platitude . Technical competence is required to climb aesthetic heights . Technical mastery however is not . I objected to your original , stronger claim that , " the greatest musicians have the greatest technique " which is a false claim of identity between something subjective and something objective .

[JSngry]

I'd even argue that "technical mastery" is imperitive to creating great music.

But (and this is a big but...)

"Technical Mastery" in this music means having the ability to make the instrument do what you want it to do how you want it to be done, and at any time you want to do it.

It does not mean being able to play the instrument according to a pre-ordained set of criteria that may or may not have anything to do with the message needing to be expressed.

That's a big difference.