What's the Deal with Elton and Rod?

[Jazzmoose]

Rod Stewart was never anything more than a voice, never wrote anything, never played anything, and after Maggie May 35 years ago, I completely lost interest in him. Mostly because he stopped singing great songs and started singing a lot of vapid pop crap. Even his Songbook stuff has him singing great songs very poorly.

Elton: after 1972, much sound and fury, but mostly empty, noisy pop music with no depth at all.

If that sort of shallow music floats your boat, you're entitled to it.

I'll agree about Rod Stewart; Maggie May was the last thing he did that impressed me. Although I admit it REALLY impressed me, and got me into the Faces, which led to the Small Faces, Humble Pie, and a couple of years later to this guitarist named Peter Frampton, but that's another embarrassing story...

As far as Elton, I stuck around through '75 or so. Fun stuff if you ask me. Of course, if you're the kind of person for whom everything has to be deep and fraught with meaning, I guess you should stick to more "important" stuff...

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I wonder if Keith Richards could be persuaded to cremate them...

MG

[7/4]

I wonder if Keith Richards could be persuaded to cremate them...

MG

anyone for tea? how about a line of coke?

[7/4]

Apparently there is a new "songs of Elton John" jazz cd w/Pietro Tonolo, Gil Goldstein, Steve Swallow and Paul Motian.

link

I thought you were joking, but I hope those guys are getting royalties instead of a flat fee/side man pay. They should be able to sell a bunch of these...

[Lush Life]

Rod Stewart was never anything more than a voice, never wrote anything, never played anything, and after Maggie May 35 years ago, I completely lost interest in him. Mostly because he stopped singing great songs and started singing a lot of vapid pop crap. Even his Songbook stuff has him singing great songs very poorly.

Elton: after 1972, much sound and fury, but mostly empty, noisy pop music with no depth at all.

If that sort of shallow music floats your boat, you're entitled to it.

Thanks. I needed your approval to get on with my life. That's a load off my mind!

LOL!

You asked for opinions. If you expected you were going to receive unanimous hurrahs for your exquisite taste in pop music, I think you were being naive.

[Alexander]

Rod Stewart was never anything more than a voice, never wrote anything, never played anything, and after Maggie May 35 years ago, I completely lost interest in him. Mostly because he stopped singing great songs and started singing a lot of vapid pop crap. Even his Songbook stuff has him singing great songs very poorly.

Elton: after 1972, much sound and fury, but mostly empty, noisy pop music with no depth at all.

If that sort of shallow music floats your boat, you're entitled to it.

Thanks. I needed your approval to get on with my life. That's a load off my mind!

LOL!

You asked for opinions. If you expected you were going to receive unanimous hurrahs for your exquisite taste in pop music, I think you were being naive.

Actually, everybody knows that the people who are into the most despised pop music are actually the hippest people of them all. Think about how many people were once embarassed to admit that they liked Louis Prima! You used to have to preface any positive remark about Prima with the observation, "Of course, he use to be a GREAT New Orleans jazz trumpeter..." Fuck that! I love the goofy pop stuff with Keely Smith!

[7/4]

Actually, everybody knows that the people who are into the most despised pop music are actually the hippest people of them all.

They would be far to hip to worry about shit like this. In fact, they really wouldn't care...

[Dan Gould]

Did anyone hear what Robin Williams said about Elton during his 60th B-day bash at the Garden?

"His outfits made Liberace look Amish."

[skeith]

Rod Stewart was never anything more than a voice, never wrote anything, never played anything, and after Maggie May 35 years ago, I completely lost interest in him. Mostly because he stopped singing great songs and started singing a lot of vapid pop crap. Even his Songbook stuff has him singing great songs very poorly.

Elton: after 1972, much sound and fury, but mostly empty, noisy pop music with no depth at all.

If that sort of shallow music floats your boat, you're entitled to it.

In truth Rod wrote a lot of great songs in his early career, so you are very wrong to say "never wrote anything". The rest of your message I agree with.

[JSngry]

Actually, everybody knows that the people who are into the most despised pop music are actually the hippest people of them all.

They would be far to hip to worry about shit like this. In fact, they really wouldn't care...

Hey, my love for The Ohio Express knows no bounds. But Elton just sucks, period. Not all forms of bad music are equal...

[7/4]

Actually, everybody knows that the people who are into the most despised pop music are actually the hippest people of them all.

They would be far to hip to worry about shit like this. In fact, they really wouldn't care...

Hey, my love for The Ohio Express knows no bounds. But Elton just sucks, period. Not all forms of bad music are equal...

But we know you listen to a lot of real cool music, so we don't judge you by the Ohio Express.

Alexander better start discussing real cool shit soon instead of going on and on about Elton, Rod and rap....

[J Larsen]

I think I'd rather stick my nuts in a vice than listen to either of these guys. Much quicker way to achieve the same result.

[7/4]

I think I'd rather stick my nuts in a vice than listen to either of these guys. Much quicker way to achieve the same result.

I find life is better when I do none of the above.

[J Larsen]

I think I'd rather stick my nuts in a vice than listen to either of these guys. Much quicker way to achieve the same result.

I find life is better when I do none of the above.

[JSngry]

Actually, everybody knows that the people who are into the most despised pop music are actually the hippest people of them all.

They would be far to hip to worry about shit like this. In fact, they really wouldn't care...

Hey, my love for The Ohio Express knows no bounds. But Elton just sucks, period. Not all forms of bad music are equal...

But we know you listen to a lot of real cool music, so we don't judge you by the Ohio Express. ...

Yeah, I also dig this one by Spanky & Our Gang:

[Lush Life]

[sheldonm]

...loved EJ back in the day (early to mid 70s), haven't followed anything of his for many, many years. Never was a fan of Rod but favor a few of his earlier tunes.

m~

[AmirBagachelles]

I'm not sure if the first Rod Stewart LP was mentioned, it really is GOOD and WORTHWHILE. I think it goes for about $6 now in cut-out, try it for sure! Rod's first four Mercury albums are nearly matchless for their style and songwriting. In a parallel universe, I am sure Rod Stewart, Ron Wood, and Ronnie Lane are household names, way up high in the Brit-rock pantheon. Rod sure did seem to piss away a lot of his respectability over the years, but who knows what that really means. He seems to be a symbol for lack of tasteful restraint in the 70/80s, if such a thing were possible. I think he just didn't like working for the man (rather, it pays to work for the ladies, Rod might say). I would bet that more than a few of the smart and talented British rockers who had "it" figured out but chose not to cash in -- wish they had. You go Rod. Don't get me started on Elton. I can tell you, without a doubt, in '72-75, he was bloody huge in the U.S., maybe a notch below below Zep but big. It seems hard to believe now, but true.

Dan

[Alexander]

I'm not sure if the first Rod Stewart LP was mentioned, it really is GOOD and WORTHWHILE. I think it goes for about $6 now in cut-out, try it for sure! Rod's first four Mercury albums are nearly matchless for their style and songwriting. In a parallel universe, I am sure Rod Stewart, Ron Wood, and Ronnie Lane are household names, way up high in the Brit-rock pantheon. Rod sure did seem to piss away a lot of his respectability over the years, but who knows what that really means. He seems to be a symbol for lack of tasteful restraint in the 70/80s, if such a thing were possible. I think he just didn't like working for the man (rather, it pays to work for the ladies, Rod might say). I would bet that more than a few of the smart and talented British rockers who had "it" figured out but chose not to cash in -- wish they had. You go Rod. Don't get me started on Elton. I can tell you, without a doubt, in '72-75, he was bloody huge in the U.S., maybe a notch below below Zep but big. It seems hard to believe now, but true.

Dan

Simple fact: There's gotta be a reason that some artists become hugely popular, and it can't always be that people are stupid. That may be the case some of the time (Kenny G), but most of the time its not. My observation is that the more popular an artist becomes, the quicker the artist becomes overexposed and the bigger the backlash against that artist. 7/4's opinion of my personal taste in music aside, I believe that the main reason Elton and Rod don't get the props they deserve for their superior early work is simply overexposure. People who grew up the in '70s (like me) have had "Maggie May" and "Your Song" drilled into our heads practically since birth. As Dan noted, these guys were HUGE in the early to mid seventies. They were part of the wallpaper, and quickly dismissed and/or taken for granted. Then the '80s came and both Elton and Rod began to suck royally. This confirmed the poor opinion some people had developed (since anything that appeals to so many people must be bad/stupid).

Again, this goes back to my theory of the cultural gag-reflex and the fact that we tend to make knee-jerk decisions based on received information rather than personal experience. I will state that I will listen to nearly ANYTHING in order to form my OWN opinion rather than accepting it on faith that XY and Z music is bad. For many jazz fans, Wynton is anathema. I accepted this as received wisdom for many years. Then I decided to check him out for myself, and found that - while I still despise his rhetoric - I quite enjoy some of his music. Other things of his don't click with me, but the point is that *I* found out for *myself*. I certainly understand how some people (like 7/4) see this as a perverse tendency to embrace anything that is generally despised. But there HAD to be something to it (Wynton, Rod, Elton, Neil Diamond), otherwise people wouldn't have embraced it in the first place. My duty, it seems to me, is to cut through all the cultural bullshit and find that thing that appealed to so many people once upon a time. In Elton/Bernie, I found superb songcraft. In Rod, I found an electrifying stage presence. Doesn't push your buttons? That's fine. People listen to music for different reasons. I listen for pleasure, to be challenged, but most of all for the sense of discovery. I can't stand still. I must move forwards and backwards through the history of recorded music and experience as much as I can. Call it a compulsion. Maybe I'll outgrow it someday.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Alexander

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Simple fact: There's gotta be a reason that some artists become hugely popular, and it can't always be that people are stupid. That may be the case some of the time (Kenny G), but most of the time its not.

Quite right. You can't hype something for decades. Not even Kenny G. Easy to understand why he's popular. You can say that the mass of the public has bad taste, if you like. But the public WILL have what they want and they want it for reasons that are good and sufficient to them - individually and as a group.

Basically, for someone to remain popular for an extended period, he/she has got to be filling a real need, in some way. OK.

MG

[7/4]

I was once told Ted Nugent was important because he sold lots of albums.

[JSngry]

Basically, for someone to remain popular for an extended period, he/she has got to be filling a real need, in some way. OK.

Thus McDonalds.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Basically, for someone to remain popular for an extended period, he/she has got to be filling a real need, in some way. OK.

Thus McDonalds.

Absolutely. I can't stand McDonalds, myself, though I'm not irreconcilably opposed to KFC.

MG

[Guy Berger]

Basically, for someone to remain popular for an extended period, he/she has got to be filling a real need, in some way. OK.

Thus McDonalds.

Absolutely. I can't stand McDonalds, myself, though I'm not irreconcilably opposed to KFC.

MG

Do you guys have Wendy's over in the UK? They have a pretty good spicy chicken sandwich.

Guy

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Basically, for someone to remain popular for an extended period, he/she has got to be filling a real need, in some way. OK.

Thus McDonalds.

Absolutely. I can't stand McDonalds, myself, though I'm not irreconcilably opposed to KFC.

MG

Do you guys have Wendy's over in the UK? They have a pretty good spicy chicken sandwich.

Guy

I think we used to, but I haven't seen any for a while. In any event, I'd be surprised if the actual food was the same. Or, if the same recipe, actually tasted the same. (Though mind you, KFC in Namibia tastes the same as it does here.)

MG