Guest the mommy Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 i didn't list that album. i replied to someone's else listing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 hottah, i guess i was thinking more on the fusion tip. Then I agree that it was an uninspiring period. To me, the originators of fusion were still around and playing then, but were not putting out much of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) - Ben Webster - the famous one with OP trio/Ellis, what's it called again? "Soulville." And I agree, was disappointed when I got it at the time it came out. Just compare it to the way Webster sounds on Harry Edison's "Sweets," from about the same time. Edited January 25, 2007 by Larry Kart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the mommy Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 hot, don't get me wrong-the 70s is my favorite decade for jazz and for fusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 - Ben Webster - the famous one with OP trio/Ellis, what's it called again? "Soulville." And I agree, was disappointed when I got it at the time it came out. Just compare it to the way Webster sounds on Harry Edison's "Sweets," from about the same time. Uh oh... I am planning to order Soulville and Meets Oscar Peterson from yourmusic -- should I avoid? Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the mommy Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Lot of good records from the 80s, though maybe not of "fusion." the early 80s is about my cutoff point for music in general. i don't listen to anything post about '85 unless family, friends or people i otherwise know are somehow involved. there is too much good old stuff stilll left to explore....except wayne shorter. he was the man all through the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 - Ben Webster - the famous one with OP trio/Ellis, what's it called again? "Soulville." And I agree, was disappointed when I got it at the time it came out. Just compare it to the way Webster sounds on Harry Edison's "Sweets," from about the same time. Uh oh... I am planning to order Soulville and Meets Oscar Peterson from yourmusic -- should I avoid? Guy Meets OP is the better date and I wouldn't avoid either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 - Ben Webster - the famous one with OP trio/Ellis, what's it called again? "Soulville." And I agree, was disappointed when I got it at the time it came out. Just compare it to the way Webster sounds on Harry Edison's "Sweets," from about the same time. Uh oh... I am planning to order Soulville and Meets Oscar Peterson from yourmusic -- should I avoid? Guy Meets OP is the better date and I wouldn't avoid either. I find it very interesting how the time when different listeners came to jazz has an impact on their reaction to certain albums. For example, I did not come to jazz until the early to mid-1970s. When I first heard "Soulville" some time in the early 1980s, I loved it. I did not have the experience of hearing it when it first came out, in relation to the Ben Webster which had just come before. By the same token, John McLaughlin's 1978 "Electric Dreams" was a watershed moment for me, when I realized that the electric fusion of the early 1970s would not be sustained with any type of quality. To others, it is no doubt a meaningless album in terms of personal impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 What is the most disppointing to me is reading, mainly in those french Jazz magazines, about many french jazzmen described at "pure genius", "extraordinary talented" "he has to much to say", "50 minutes of pure beauty and gravitation", " radically new sound" "one new idea each 50 seconds" and to hear actually only good but not unfogettable music (whatever kind of). French journalist are always a little excessive in compliments, especially when writing about the newcomers. I think they are afraid to miss the new Barney Wilen or Django Reinhardt. don't know if that makes you feel better, but it's not entirely a French phenomenon... Check to see if the artists have ads in the magazine touting their product. That would be a dead giveaway that the review might not be totally honest. so you guys don't like the original lifetime. i don't like the new one. it is not a big deal. I never said I didn't like Lifetime. I said some of it is great, some of it is cheesy as hell (like the stuff Jack Bruce and Tony Williams sing on). You haven't even heard Sausades, so how can you say you don't like the "new one"? That's completely dishonest. If you don't like the concept of the new one, that's one thing. But you're dissing something you haven't even heard, which means you have no credibility to diss it. i will never have any interest in anything scofield or goldings do. i think they stink. scofield used to be pretty fine. with cobham and cobham/duke and miles...through the gramavision years i got no beef. but in 2006 i don't need to hear this junk. sorry. You should be sorry because if you think Goldings stinks, you're missing some really great music. He's a fantastic musician and jazz composer as well as being an individual voice on the organ. His last few records on Palmetto have been very, very good and different from the standard organ trio fare. There's also a CD under Bill Stewart's name on CDBaby with Goldings on organ and Kevin Hayes on electric piano and piano filled with wonderfully off-kilter music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 There's also a CD under Bill Stewart's name on CDBaby with Goldings on organ and Kevin Hayes on electric piano and piano filled with wonderfully off-kilter music. Keynote Speaker. I still haven't picked that one up. But I love Stewarts playing, and his composing is actually pretty high quality stuff as well. As can be witnessed in his criminally OOP Blue Note discs (which are still two of my most prized discs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I must add that Al Hirt's series of solo, unaccompanied trumpet recordings never moved me. His attempt to cover the AACM songbook, while interesting in conception, just never really came off for me. The volumes of his Ornette interpretations were somewhat better, but to me, not as great as everyone seems to think. When he went on for 47 1/2 minutes with his variations on the head of Miles Davis' "Jean Pierre", he lost me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 - Ben Webster - the famous one with OP trio/Ellis, what's it called again? "Soulville." And I agree, was disappointed when I got it at the time it came out. Just compare it to the way Webster sounds on Harry Edison's "Sweets," from about the same time. Uh oh... I am planning to order Soulville and Meets Oscar Peterson from yourmusic -- should I avoid? Guy Meets OP is the better date and I wouldn't avoid either. I prefer Soulville myself, but Chuck is right, you shouldn't avoid either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 There's also a CD under Bill Stewart's name on CDBaby with Goldings on organ and Kevin Hayes on electric piano and piano filled with wonderfully off-kilter music. Keynote Speaker. I still haven't picked that one up. But I love Stewarts playing, and his composing is actually pretty high quality stuff as well. As can be witnessed in his criminally OOP Blue Note discs (which are still two of my most prized discs). Yes, that's the one. And I think he did three discs for Blue Note. Telepathy, Snide Remarks, and Think Before You Think. All are great discs, with Stewart's humorous and wacky compositions taking the fore. I highly recommend Keynote Speaker. It hardly ever leaves my car. In fact, I think I'll go grab it and rip it to my harddrive now so I can listen while I work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 - Ben Webster - the famous one with OP trio/Ellis, what's it called again? "Soulville." And I agree, was disappointed when I got it at the time it came out. Just compare it to the way Webster sounds on Harry Edison's "Sweets," from about the same time. Uh oh... I am planning to order Soulville and Meets Oscar Peterson from yourmusic -- should I avoid? Guy Meets OP is the better date and I wouldn't avoid either. I am with Chuck on this I guess, I like them both very much and don't prefer either one - but I guess I just like Ben Webster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Back to the original topic, I guess one example of the records that diisappointed me was anything by Herbie Nichols - I just don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the mommy Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 speaking of nichols i have always found the highly regarded lacy/bennink/mengelberg mashups where they do the nichols tunes (and monk tunes) to be a bit boring. especially the all nichols set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 speaking of nichols i have always found the highly regarded lacy/bennink/mengelberg mashups where they do the nichols tunes (and monk tunes) to be a bit boring. especially the all nichols set. Along those lines I was surprised at how unengaging I found the John Zorn tribute projects, the two "News for Lulu" albums and the Sonny Clark Memorial album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ep1str0phy Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 so you guys don't like the original lifetime. i don't like the new one. it is not a big deal. i don't know why i need to hear it to say that i have no interest in hearing scofield and goldings play music "inspired by and going beyond" tony williams lifetime, which i am pretty sure they don't. and isn't extending songs from "turn it over" for many minutes missing the point, anyway? i made no comment on the quality of the music. just said it sounded like a commercial venture. i have no interest in hearing it. if i saw it in a store i would not look at it twice. i will never have any interest in anything scofield or goldings do. i think they stink. scofield used to be pretty fine. with cobham and cobham/duke and miles...through the gramavision years i got no beef. but in 2006 i don't need to hear this junk. sorry. At the same time, it's widely held that Lifetime did their best work live... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 And I think he did three discs for Blue Note. You are correct sir, but I was only speaking of the two that are OOP. I had only heard him as a sideman, naturally, until I picked up Telepathy. Man, I was blown away by his compositional skills!! Aside from Hamid Drake, Stewart is the only modern day drummer that I can truly wrp my ears around these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the mommy Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 jim i am sorry but i am never going to listen to larry goldings again. he is completely outside the scope of anything i will find musically relevant or interesting. the last thing i saw with him was some completely brutal garbage with tom scott and will lee and perhaps rick marotta and that was enough for me. if i have an itch for something trio beyond-ish i will just throw on an old jeff palmer album(with john abercrombie). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Along those lines I was surprised at how unengaging I found the John Zorn tribute projects, the two "News for Lulu" albums and the Sonny Clark Memorial album. I dig all three! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 jim i am sorry but i am never going to listen to larry goldings again. he is completely outside the scope of anything i will find musically relevant or interesting. the last thing i saw with him was some completely brutal garbage with tom scott and will lee and perhaps rick marotta and that was enough for me. if i have an itch for something trio beyond-ish i will just throw on an old jeff palmer album(with john abercrombie). Your loss. Goldings is a much better player and composer than Palmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 ECM is hardly a more commercial label than Verve, which is what the Lifetime Emergency release was on. Aggie, not to nitpick, and this will I think prove your point even more, but Emergency was not released on Verve but rather on Phillips' new US rock label Polydor. (Polydor had long existed in Britain.) I remember that the first three releases of that label were John Mayall's The Turning Point (his first after he left Decca/London), Manfred Mann Chapter Three (my favorite at that time!; the band's first album) and Emergency (The Tony Williams Lifetime's first album). So as you can see, the record company's point of view was commercial - going after the college market. And as I recall Emergency got plenty of promotional support in the magazines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie87 Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 ECM is hardly a more commercial label than Verve, which is what the Lifetime Emergency release was on. Aggie, not to nitpick, and this will I think prove your point even more, but Emergency was not released on Verve but rather on Phillips' new US rock label Polydor. (Polydor had long existed in Britain.) I remember that the first three releases of that label were John Mayall's The Turning Point (his first after he left Decca/London), Manfred Mann Chapter Three (my favorite at that time!; the band's first album) and Emergency (The Tony Williams Lifetime's first album). So as you can see, the record company's point of view was commercial - going after the college market. And as I recall Emergency got plenty of promotional support in the magazines. Thx GA. I actually just pulled the CD off the shelf and checked the spine, I should have done my homework better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Polydor was an entirely different story over in Europe, where Emergency I and II were also issued. A lot of very uncommercial music has that logo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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