"Letters from Iwo Jima"

[Alexander]

I saw this on Friday night, and it's taken me a couple of days to digest it. First of all, I think that it's one of the most powerful anti-war films ever made. It really captures the insanity of war. I also think that it was very brave (and also the right thing to do) for Eastwood to make the film entirely in Japanese (with English subtitles). The performances are extraordinary throughout, especially Ken Wantabe as the general with a doomed mission. The film's viewpoint, showing a WWII battle from the Japanese POV, is unprecidented as far as I know (especially in an American film). And it's a real eye-opener. After so much "greatest generation" talk, it's interesting to see the Japanese portrayed in such a sympathetic light (I've read that there has been some protest. One commentator I read actually claimed that making such a film is an act of treason. I see if I can find the citation). The film's depiction undercuts the accepted notion that Imperial Japan was a bastion of homogeneous group-think. While most of the officers generally parrot the party-line (that the Americans are weak and that it is an honor to die for the Empire), the film shows far more diversity of thought among the enlisted men (at least one of whom is determined NOT to die for his Empire). I'm sure that this is far closer to the truth than what we've been told in the past.

Similarly, it was very interesting to see the Americans as the enemy "other." For the most part, Americans in this film take the form of death-dealing planes, an armada of warships and faceless grunts. In one scene, a wounded American is captured and treated by a Japanese officer and his men. The officer (a former Olympian Gold-Medalist who had visited the U.S. during the '30s) speaks English and has a wonderful conversation with the wounded man, who dies soon after. When two Japanese soldiers are taken by the Americans (while trying to surrender), the grunts (who do not speak a word of Japanese) mistake the talk of the two starving, exhausted men (who are actually talking about looking forward to a decent meal) for plotting, and murder the men in cold blood. What an amazing contrast with what we've seen in so many war films of the past (where the Japanese are heartless brutes and the Americans are merciful)!

The film also makes one thing abudently clear: The American victory at Iwo Jima was hardly glorious. The Japanese were hopelessly out-numbered and out-gunned (they had NO air or sea support as most of Japan's remaining ships and planes had been recalled to defend the mainland). The Japanese were dying of starvation, thirst, and dysentary. The film does not show the raising of the American flag (which was covered in the inferior companion film, "Flags of Our Fathers"), and this is a good thing, because I think I would have been ashamed to view it in these circumstances. Crushing a handful of dying men is hardly a great victory.

I urge everyone to see this (even if you skipped "Flags"). It is very likely the one film that Eastwood (the filmmaker, rather than the actor) will be remembered for.

Some Iwo stats, btw:

American air forces pounded Iwo in the longest sustained aerial offensive of the war.

"No other island received as much preliminary pounding as did Iwo Jima."

. . . Admiral Nimitz, CINPAC

Twenty-one thousand defenders of Japanese soil, burrowed in the volcanic rock of Iwo Jima, anxiously awaited the American invaders.

The US sent more Marines to Iwo than to any other battle, 110,000 Marines in 880 Ships. The convoy of 880 US Ships sailed from Hawaii to Iwo in 40 days.

It was the largest armada invasion up to that time in the Pacific War.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Alexander

[Randy Twizzle]

The film does not show the raising of the American flag (which was covered in the inferior companion film, "Flags of Our Fathers"), and this is a good thing, because I think I would have been ashamed to view it in these circumstances. Crushing a handful of dying men is hardly a great victory.

I get it. So 60 yrs later we're supposed to be ashamed over a victory over a military force representing an evil murderous regime. These battles didn't take place in a vacuum. They were part of a glorious ongoing struggle over fascism and the culture of death and destruction. Sorry it wasn't aesthetically pleasing enough for you to celebrate.

[Matthew]

Evil Americans doing bad things to the Japanese. I guess in your world Nanking never happened.

[Jazzmoose]

Apparently the Death March was just bad PR...

[Harold_Z]

Look,

America was in the war and was there to win it. Unlike anything since. Get it.

Cops or military will tell you the key to winning or diffusing a situation is overwhelming force.

We did what we had to do. Nothing to be ashamed of.

I haven seen the film yet, but going from Alexander's desription, a film that shows the humanity and situation of the enemy "grunt" or foot soldier and does so accurately.........HEY..nothing to complain about here. My guess is it points out that the people fighting these wars are NOT the people that cause these wars. Just regular people, doing what thier governemnt asks of them.

And people die.......but not the pricks that start the shit.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Harold_Z

[JSngry]

Das Boot was a helluva good movie.

[catesta]

The film does not show the raising of the American flag (which was covered in the inferior companion film, "Flags of Our Fathers"), and this is a good thing, because I think I would have been ashamed to view it in these circumstances. Crushing a handful of dying men is hardly a great victory.

I get it. So 60 yrs later we're supposed to be ashamed over a victory over a military force representing an evil murderous regime. These battles didn't take place in a vacuum. They were part of a glorious ongoing struggle over fascism and the culture of death and destruction. Sorry it wasn't aesthetically pleasing enough for you to celebrate.

No shit.

[Jazzmoose]

I haven seen the film yet, but going from Alexander's desription, a film that shows the humanity and situation of the enemy "grunt" or foot soldier and does so accurately.........HEY..nothing to complain about here. My guess is it points out that the people fighting these wars are NOT the people that cause these wars. Just regular people, doing what there governemnt asks of them.

Yeah, it's probably a damned good movie. Unlike Alexander's historical interpretation...

[sal]

I will be seeing this one this weekend. I've heard nothing but great things about it. And its good to hear that its superior to "Flags of our Fathers", which was a very decent, yet mildly disappointing film.

[Dan Gould]

Are any of us really surprised at Alex's view (of history, not of the film)?

As far as this wonderful variety of Japanese attitudes about fighting and dying, how much of that is Clint creating a variety of viewpoints and some dramatic interest? Are there any Japanese war memoirs or books that reflect this kind of diversity of opinion? For that matter, what exactly did Clint base the screenplay on?

[neveronfriday]

2nd paragraph

[Dan Gould]

Thanks.

[jlhoots]

I thought the movie was well directed.

The best movie I saw this week was Pan's Labyrinth (not to derail the thread).

[Alexander]

Look,

America was in the war and was there to win it. Unlike anything since. Get it.

Cops or military will tell you the key to winning or diffusing a situation is overwhelming force.

We did what we had to do. Nothing to be ashamed of.

I haven seen the film yet, but going from Alexander's desription, a film that shows the humanity and situation of the enemy "grunt" or foot soldier and does so accurately.........HEY..nothing to complain about here. My guess is it points out that the people fighting these wars are NOT the people that cause these wars. Just regular people, doing what thier governemnt asks of them.

And people die.......but not the pricks that start the shit.

Exactly. That was my point. Not that the Japanese were good and the Americans were bad. I know about Nanking and the Batan Death March. It's just the American films have never shown THIS side of the Japanese before. The HUMAN side.

[Alexander]

I thought the movie was well directed.

The best movie I saw this week was Pan's Labyrinth (not to derail the thread).

Yes, I'm looking forward to that one too. It was a close call between the two films (also I want to see "The Last King of Scotland"), but I decided to go with the "Iwo Jima" and I don't regret it.

[Scott Dolan]

I wonder how a Chinese director would have made this film?

[Alexander]

I wonder how a Chinese director would have made this film?

Are there any really good films about the Japanese occupation? I'd love to see one!

Look, I'm not saying "Japanese: Good; Americans: Baaaaad." I'm saying that the film offers a very unique perspective, and that it calls for a little HUMILITY in our assessment of America's victory in this battle. I'm not saying we were wrong to fight and try to win, just that THIS particular victory should stir some sober reflection. We seem to have this attitude that war is like a football game. It's not. There are human beings on both sides who lost their lives. Frankly, I don't understand how anybody can live through that and keep their sanity.

[Jim R]

I wonder how a Chinese director would have made this film?

Are there any really good films about the Japanese occupation? I'd love to see one!

Look, I'm not saying "Japanese: Good; Americans: Baaaaad." I'm saying that the film offers a very unique perspective, and that it calls for a little HUMILITY in our assessment of America's victory in this battle. I'm not saying we were wrong to fight and try to win, just that THIS particular victory should stir some sober reflection. We seem to have this attitude that war is like a football game. It's not. There are human beings on both sides who lost their lives. Frankly, I don't understand how anybody can live through that and keep their sanity.

The old Hollywood films are one thing, but I would think that anyone who has seen documentaries about Iwo Jima would already feel that way to some extent. I have, and I do. Anyway, I'll probably see this film eventually.

[Scott Dolan]

I think that anybody with half an ounce of sense in their head can readily determine that there is both good and evil on both sides.

But I too am looking foward to this movie.

[Alexander]

I think that anybody with half an ounce of sense in their head can readily determine that there is both good and evil on both sides.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? And yet our Glorious Leader continues to harp on "Evil-Doers." Go figure...

[Scott Dolan]

What world leaders don't?

[Randy Twizzle]

Let's not forget the stirring words of FDR on 12/8/1941

Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us,( though let's not forget that the Japanese soldiers also have families that love them.) No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, (let's do so in caring and gentle manner) the American people in their righteous might, (righteous but also forgiving, for aren't we all god's creatures), will win through to absolute victory (but in a manner that doesn't offend the Japanese.)

[Alexander]

Let's not forget the stirring words of FDR on 12/8/1941

Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us,( though let's not forget that the Japanese soldiers also have families that love them.) No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, (let's do so in caring and gentle manner) the American people in their righteous might, (righteous but also forgiving, for aren't we all god's creatures), will win through to absolute victory (but in a manner that doesn't offend the Japanese.)

So that's what you think this is all about? Not "offending" the Japanese? This film shows heroism on the Japanese side. No American film (that I know of) has showed such a thing before. And this is just a sop to Politcal Correctness? Is that what you think?

[Randy Twizzle]

Let's not forget the stirring words of FDR on 12/8/1941

Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us,( though let's not forget that the Japanese soldiers also have families that love them.) No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, (let's do so in caring and gentle manner) the American people in their righteous might, (righteous but also forgiving, for aren't we all god's creatures), will win through to absolute victory (but in a manner that doesn't offend the Japanese.)

So that's what you think this is all about? Not "offending" the Japanese? This film shows heroism on the Japanese side. No American film (that I know of) has showed such a thing before. And this is just a sop to Politcal Correctness? Is that what you think?

Terribly sorry Saint Alexander, I was just adding my little bit of misplaced whimsy to your monumental discovery that during wartime we tend to dehumanize the enemy. I realize that you must have left the theatre after Eastwood's latest masterpiece feeling the need to proclaim this important truth to us enfeebled yahoos. I understand how important the message is and how we all need to run (not walk) to the theatre to become as noble as you undoubtedly are. BTW "Tora Tora Tora" in 1970 was also partly told from the Japanese perspective, but of course it offered no great universal truths for deep thinkers and didn't really send anyone out of the theatre feeling the need to preach how like really gross war tends to be.

[Alexander]

Let's not forget the stirring words of FDR on 12/8/1941

Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us,( though let's not forget that the Japanese soldiers also have families that love them.) No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, (let's do so in caring and gentle manner) the American people in their righteous might, (righteous but also forgiving, for aren't we all god's creatures), will win through to absolute victory (but in a manner that doesn't offend the Japanese.)

So that's what you think this is all about? Not "offending" the Japanese? This film shows heroism on the Japanese side. No American film (that I know of) has showed such a thing before. And this is just a sop to Politcal Correctness? Is that what you think?

Terribly sorry Saint Alexander, I was just adding my little bit of misplaced whimsy to your monumental discovery that during wartime we tend to dehumanize the enemy. I realize that you must have left the theatre after Eastwood's latest masterpiece feeling the need to proclaim this important truth to us enfeebled yahoos. I understand how important the message is and how we all need to run (not walk) to the theatre to become as noble as you undoubtedly are. BTW "Tora Tora Tora" in 1970 was also partly told from the Japanese perspective, but of course it offered no great universal truths for deep thinkers and didn't really send anyone out of the theatre feeling the need to preach how like really gross war tends to be.

So, because you disagree with my take on the film, that gives you license to be a complete dick?

What seems very interesting to me is that the standard by which greatness in cinema is measured this year is whether or not the film reveals great "Truth" with a capital "T". If the film fails to present some original insight into human nature or our national character, we deem the film a failure (and, of course, anybody who actually likes the film and is interested in what it does have to say is silly, since the film has told us nothing we didn't already know). "Borat" is a good example. I liked "Borat," myself, but a lot of people (on this very board, in fact) responded thus: "Oh, dear. Baron Cohen has revealed that some Americans are ignorant, xenophobic, racist, sexist, anti-semitic boobs. Tell us something we DON'T know! Yawn." Apparently, Baron Cohen's mission in "Borat" was not to be funny, but to come down from the mountain top (a la Moses) with a great truth that would make his film worth viewing. But since his insight is so...so unoriginal...well, how can anybody stomach such a common observation? So it is, too, with "Iwo Jima." War is hell. Where have we heard that one before? Call me up when something INTERESTING happens.

I didn't like the film because it revealed something to me that I'd never seen before. I liked it because it presented a perspective not often seen in American films. And because it was well-acted and well-filmed. Did it teach me that war is hell? No more than "Hotel Rwanda" taught me that genocide is bad. Did I already know that? Yes, but I still thought it was a great film.

And, yes, I did enjoy the fact that Allmighty America was revealed in its socks and underwear, so to speak. I'm of the opinion that America needs to see it's faults and foibles writ large from time to time. That's how we learn. In "Iwo Jima" we see how America is perceived by an enemy at war, and frankly it's not a pretty picture. I don't want to live in the country with the biggest dick in the world, do you?

Edited January 23, 2007 by Alexander