BERIGAN Posted January 19, 2007 Report Posted January 19, 2007 I had seen some of the humor in the promos in the past, but don't they just seem cruel when you see them now??? New `Idol' Season Shows Mean Streak Jan 19, 10:17 AM (ET) By JOCELYN NOVECK NEW YORK (AP) - "Even the juggling was pathetic." With that cutting blow, Simon Cowell ended Jason Anderson's moment in the spotlight. Anderson, all of 16, stormed out of his "American Idol" audition into his family's arms, obscenities flowing as freely as the tears. High school can be vicious enough. But not as nasty as Cowell, who also told the would-be singer/juggler that he "summed up Minneapolis, mate - useless." The "American Idol" juggernaut has become ever more popular in this, its sixth season. But it sure seems meaner, too. At least that's the talk this week as the judges - not just the acerbic Cowell, but the usually genial Randy Jackson and the kind but loopy Paula Abdul - up the torture quotient, taking train-wreck TV viewing to a whole new level. Young or old, pretty or ugly, male or female: No category of contestant has been spared in this week's audition coverage. The judges have even taken swipes at contestants behind their backs, making snide remarks after the singers have left. "Obnoxious," Cowell sniffed of one who'd just been voted into the next round. "What a strange guy," Jackson said of another. And if you argue the contestants are asking for it by merely deciding to appear, consider the supportive boss of Dayna Dooley, who flew her and her sister to Minneapolis from California, so strongly did he believe in her singing. After panning her performance, the panel repeatedly insinuated to Dooley that she was inappropriately involved with her boss. Then they called the nice man in, told him his employee was "terrible," and proceeded to make the same insinuation to him - while his wife sat just outside the room. "It just seems like they're being a lot meaner," says Jessica Rhode. She should know. After the 21-year-old makeup artist was given a thumbs-down by the panel, she collapsed to her knees and wept, begging the judges for some constructive advice. "It would take an hour," Cowell retorted. He told her to be happy: Now she could move on, knowing she'd never be a singer. "That was the worst thing, in my opinion," Rhode said in a telephone interview. "I expected at least one of them to say something nice. I was like, is this really necessary?" The cruelest moment undoubtedly came in Seattle, where a spirited young man named Kenneth Briggs, who liked to compare himself to Justin Timberlake, was told by Cowell: "You look a little odd ... you look like one of those creatures that live in the jungle, with those massive eyes ... a bush baby." Once he left, the three judges were shown cracking up hysterically at the "bush baby" remark. Their behavior brought a rebuke from the hosts of ABC's "The View.""The whole thing, it's terribly sad to me," said moderator Rosie O'Donnell. Even the doors were mean. In a malfunction that seemed expressly designed to deepen the humiliation, one side of the double doors to the Minneapolis tryout room was locked or jammed. That meant Cowell got to smirk or roll his eyes every time a poor soul - Rhode was one of them - knocked into the wrong one during a hasty exit. At least Stephen Horst managed to pick the right door. "That's what my sister told me after the show," Horst says. It was the best thing she could think of, after the pummeling the 28-year old vocal coach took from Jackson. Horst, of New York City, is a positive thinker if there ever was one. "I believe everything happens for a reason," he says. "I had a dream, and I went after it. Life is short, and you have to enjoy every sandwich." So Horst, on his own dime, traveled to Minneapolis and stayed at a hotel during the audition process. He chose to sing Aerosmith's "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing." Maybe it was the song choice, or the singing itself, which veered into a sudden falsetto, or the fact that he was a vocal coach. Jackson went on a rampage. "I thought it was awful," he said. "You shouldn't be a vocal teacher. I wouldn't take vocal lessons from you, I wouldn't tell anybody to take vocal lessons from you." Cowell feigned indignation. "Are you going to take that, Stephen?" he baited Horst. "I was stunned," Horst said. "Randy just didn't like me." He's moving ahead with his music career, and doesn't plan to watch the show anymore. "I need to create a new past," he says. That's the kind of positive thinking that has helped Paris Bennett in her career. Bennett, unlike most of those at this week's auditions, was an "American Idol" success story, coming in fifth last year and eventually earning a record deal. Yet she, too, endured her share of negative comments. Cowell once told her that her speaking voice reminded him of Minnie Mouse. She was 17 at the time. "You can let it knock you down, or you can take it as constructive criticism," Bennett said in a telephone interview. She said her grandmother and her mother, both singers, had taught her to look at the positive, not the negative. "It all just depends on how you take it," she said. She obviously took it well. In March, her debut album comes out. The first single, "Ordinary Love," was released this week. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070119/D8MOE2J00.html Quote
RDK Posted January 19, 2007 Report Posted January 19, 2007 I gotta say, most of them deserve it. Self-delusion is a powerful thing (don't i know it my business) and a lot of people simply can't handle the truth about their "talents." One thing seems clearer this season than in the past: the producers do seem to have weeded out most of the "fakers," leaving only the truly self-deluded bad singers. Saw this earlier today... http://deathbycamera.com/?p=30 Quote
Alexander Posted January 20, 2007 Report Posted January 20, 2007 I gotta say, most of them deserve it. Self-delusion is a powerful thing (don't i know it my business) and a lot of people simply can't handle the truth about their "talents." One thing seems clearer this season than in the past: the producers do seem to have weeded out most of the "fakers," leaving only the truly self-deluded bad singers. Saw this earlier today... http://deathbycamera.com/?p=30 What bugs me is this: These people (the horrible singers) may be deluded when it comes to their own ability, but the Idol producers have allowed them to pass not one, but TWO (and maybe even three) auditions before they get to strut their stuff for Randy, Paula and Simon. Now honestly, if you had stood in line for days and had passed two auditions, wouldn't you get the impression that you were pretty good? These people have been lead down the garden path, only to have a ten ton weight dropped on their heads when the reach the end. However bad, self-deluded, or even mean-spirited some of these people are, they certainly don't deserve to be given the "bait-and-switch" treatment like this. Basically, the Idol producers only outright reject the mediocre. They let the very good and the very bad through, and that really sucks. Quote
jazzbo Posted January 20, 2007 Report Posted January 20, 2007 I agree with you there. My wife and I don't need to see these people. We skip or wince our way through til the Hollywood episodes; I can't get her unglued from the set from that point on. I guess these painful and demeaning episodes are money in the bank for the producers and networks though. Quote
Dan Gould Posted January 20, 2007 Report Posted January 20, 2007 I'm the opposite - like a continuous loop of can't-look-away car crashes, you can't pull me away from these episodes, and I can take or leave the subsequent episodes as they come, with my interest often determined by who the musical guest is or what the musical genre may be. As far as self-delusion goes, I'll bet that a surprising number of people are fully aware that they can't sing and are only looking for their fifteen minutes of fame. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who are put through to Simon et al who can kinda sorta sing but aren't good enough. They are mediocre, in fact, but they do get that chance. I think there have been quite a few singers shown this week who weren't wince-inducing, but they didn't get through (for instance, the secretary who Simon and Randy kept implying had a "thing" going on with her boss who paid for her trip). Quote
Dan Gould Posted January 20, 2007 Report Posted January 20, 2007 There was an interesting piece on MSNBC.com from an Idol auditioner. Basically, her description of the process was that if you had an outrageous costume or a weird look about you, you were picked out by the producers. They know what they are looking for in these shows. But for the great unwashed masses, There were 12 different sets of audition judges (an individual person) and apparently they themselves had authority to give out those "gold tickets", without even being sent through to Simon and the gang for final approval. That may have a lot to do with why we hardly saw "winning" auditions this week - only the bad and the ugly and a few of the good were sent in front of the cameras. The rest of the "good" got through and haven't even seen the Gang of Three yet. Quote
catesta Posted January 20, 2007 Report Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) I'll still don't understand the hype and popularity of this show. I've seen clips and maybe a partial episode or two and have to admit it's funny laughing at the bad, but then I look at the host and the judges. Where is Paula Abdul's musical career? Where does she get off judging singing ability? If ever there was a computer enhanced voice/studio created career, it Paula Abdul. She was cute and could dance, but sing? Forget about it. I had the misfortune of seeing her live early in her career at a mobile audio show. She was terrible. I couldn't get away and back to the bar quick enough. They must ohave riginally picked her as a joke, or had a long list of people that declined. From the clips I hear played on the radio non-stop, all the comments by the judges seem to be about the same for each contestant. The only difference is whether the person was good or bad. Plus, I can't stand that fake, talentless douchebag Ryan Seacrest. Seacrest Out!! Edited January 20, 2007 by catesta Quote
jazzbo Posted January 20, 2007 Report Posted January 20, 2007 Chris, I can certainly see things from your viewpoint. The truth of the matter as I see it is that the judges really don't matter much. Almost anyone would pick a similar batch of 100 finalists or so, and then whittle a similar batch to 24. And after that, no matter what the judges blather on about, it's the tv audience that votes and decides. . . believe it or not. (I can't believe a lot of their choices! Such as when they voted off Jennifer Hudson. . . who is slaying moviegoers now in "Dream Girls." I KNEW that woman was the shit!) The main appeal for me? My wife LOVES the show, when it gets down to the finalists. It's allowed her to grow an interest in music, and it opened the door for me to show her other musicians and singers. I showed her several versions of Summertime that I thought were far more intriguing than Catharine McPhee's for example, and she understood why I thought so and enjoyed the comparisons. Before AI, this would NEVER EVER have happened! I really get a kick out of Helen discovering a joy in music. . . . I really am grateful to Idol for that. Quote
B. Clugston Posted January 20, 2007 Report Posted January 20, 2007 I can't wait for this show to tank and see Cowell, Adbul and company selling steak knives on infomercials in order to keep in the spotlight. Quote
mikelz777 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) They'll be buying the steak knives and enjoying a filet mignon as they have a servant turn on a spotlight to illuminate their money-counting rooms. Edited January 21, 2007 by mikelz777 Quote
Big Wheel Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 You've got a long wait! I dunno, a move like this (MORE ANGUISH!! MORE PAIN!! MORE UNFUNNY AND NOT-AT-ALL WITTY REMARKS FROM SIMON!!!) strikes me as a Hail Mary kind of move, a sign that the producers see the writing on the wall and are going with shock value to try and keep the ratings up. Of course, I don't follow the show or its ratings, so it's possible I have no idea what I'm talking about. Quote
Dan Gould Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 Chris' point about Paula is certainly accurate, but at the same time, its pretty obvious why she was chosen. They wanted someone to be the opposite of Simon. Paula fits that to a "t" even if her qualifications are questionable in the extreme. Speaking of qualifications, can anyone tell me when Randy Jackson played bass in Journey? I'm having a hard time imagining that so I wonder if it was before or long after their fifteen minutes. And as for seeing this show tank, I cannot imagine when that may happen. Every single year it pulls better numbers than the last. Got only knows when or even if people will grow tired of it. Quote
Dan Gould Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 You've got a long wait! I dunno, a move like this (MORE ANGUISH!! MORE PAIN!! MORE UNFUNNY AND NOT-AT-ALL WITTY REMARKS FROM SIMON!!!) strikes me as a Hail Mary kind of move, a sign that the producers see the writing on the wall and are going with shock value to try and keep the ratings up. Of course, I don't follow the show or its ratings, so it's possible I have no idea what I'm talking about. Even likely. The ratings were bigger than ever before, and that happened before anyone could notice/be aware of MORE ANGUISH! MORE PAIN!! Quote
JSngry Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 Speaking of qualifications, can anyone tell me when Randy Jackson played bass in Journey? I'm having a hard time imagining that so I wonder if it was before or long after their fifteen minutes. Journey was quite popular for quite a few years, actually... But anyway, per Wikipedia: As a musician, Jackson plays the electric bass. One big break of his was that he played bass for violin virtuoso Jean-Luc Ponty as well as playing bass in the band Journey in 1983 and 1985. He was a highly regarded session musician in Los Angeles during the 1980s. His numerous credits range from playing with Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Billy Cobham, Blue Öyster Cult, Herbie Hancock, Richard Marx, Billy Joel, Journey, Beyond Reason, Stryper and Bob Dylan to playing at the Grand Ole Opry with The Charlie Daniels Band. His production/songwriting work in the San Francisco Bay area with Narada Michael Walden and Walter Afanasieff led Randy to be quite in demand as a producer himself. While in the Bay area, Randy played in bands with Carlos Santana and Jerry Garcia. He moved to Italy in the late 1980s and produced a record for Italian pop star Zucchero. The record Zucchero and the Randy Jackson Band produced one of Zucchero's biggest hits, "Donne". Jackson has also recorded, produced, or toured with many well-known artists and bands, ranging from Mariah Carey (whom he knew when she was still a teenager; he was in her band at Live 8 in London in 2005) to NSYNC, Céline Dion, Wild Orchid, Bruce Springsteen, and Madonna (for whom he played bass on the # 1 hit "Like A Prayer"). He has also worked as an executive with Columbia Records and MCA Records. Jackson also manages current artists Van Hunt and Nikka Costa. He does very select session work, usually just for close friends, but continues to maintain his ability to play very diverse styles of bass. He played bass onstage on the 2006 Grammy Awards with Mariah Carey as well as the Sly & The Family Stone tribute. Carey also tapped Jackson to serve as musical director for her 2006 The Adventures of Mimi Tour. Jackson also hosts a radio top-40 countdown known as "Randy Jackson's Hit List" syndicated on hundreds of stations nationwide by Westwood One. Every week Randy counts down his top 30 Urban AC and Mainstream AC hits, gives us a peek into AI with American Idol Underground, and shares what's currently in his iPod. Like him or not, he's got cred. Quote
catesta Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 And as for seeing this show tank, I cannot imagine when that may happen. Every single year it pulls better numbers than the last. Got only knows when or even if people will grow tired of it. It will happen. The show is way over exposed now. Between all the clips being played 24/7, syndication, and whatever else they have going on, it will go the way of "Fear Factor" some day soon. I remember there was a time you couldn't go a day without people talking about "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?", and now? Quote
Alexander Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 Speaking of qualifications, can anyone tell me when Randy Jackson played bass in Journey? I'm having a hard time imagining that so I wonder if it was before or long after their fifteen minutes. Journey was quite popular for quite a few years, actually... But anyway, per Wikipedia: As a musician, Jackson plays the electric bass. One big break of his was that he played bass for violin virtuoso Jean-Luc Ponty as well as playing bass in the band Journey in 1983 and 1985. He was a highly regarded session musician in Los Angeles during the 1980s. His numerous credits range from playing with Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Billy Cobham, Blue Öyster Cult, Herbie Hancock, Richard Marx, Billy Joel, Journey, Beyond Reason, Stryper and Bob Dylan to playing at the Grand Ole Opry with The Charlie Daniels Band. His production/songwriting work in the San Francisco Bay area with Narada Michael Walden and Walter Afanasieff led Randy to be quite in demand as a producer himself. While in the Bay area, Randy played in bands with Carlos Santana and Jerry Garcia. He moved to Italy in the late 1980s and produced a record for Italian pop star Zucchero. The record Zucchero and the Randy Jackson Band produced one of Zucchero's biggest hits, "Donne". Jackson has also recorded, produced, or toured with many well-known artists and bands, ranging from Mariah Carey (whom he knew when she was still a teenager; he was in her band at Live 8 in London in 2005) to NSYNC, Céline Dion, Wild Orchid, Bruce Springsteen, and Madonna (for whom he played bass on the # 1 hit "Like A Prayer"). He has also worked as an executive with Columbia Records and MCA Records. Jackson also manages current artists Van Hunt and Nikka Costa. He does very select session work, usually just for close friends, but continues to maintain his ability to play very diverse styles of bass. He played bass onstage on the 2006 Grammy Awards with Mariah Carey as well as the Sly & The Family Stone tribute. Carey also tapped Jackson to serve as musical director for her 2006 The Adventures of Mimi Tour. Jackson also hosts a radio top-40 countdown known as "Randy Jackson's Hit List" syndicated on hundreds of stations nationwide by Westwood One. Every week Randy counts down his top 30 Urban AC and Mainstream AC hits, gives us a peek into AI with American Idol Underground, and shares what's currently in his iPod. Like him or not, he's got cred. Yeah, he and Paula were the judges I'd actually heard of before Idol started. Paula had her pop career, of course, but "Randy Jackson" was more of a name I recognized from liner notes. It actually took me a while to make the connection, though. Once I found out I was all, "Oh! THAT Randy Jackson!" Quote
Dan Gould Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 And as for seeing this show tank, I cannot imagine when that may happen. Every single year it pulls better numbers than the last. Got only knows when or even if people will grow tired of it. It will happen. The show is way over exposed now. Between all the clips being played 24/7, syndication, and whatever else they have going on, it will go the way of "Fear Factor" some day soon. I remember there was a time you couldn't go a day without people talking about "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?", and now? That show died of overexposure, three or four episodes per week for wont of anything else ABC could put on the air and get anyone to watch. Idol has a single, short season per year. Repackaging shows for syndication won't effect public interest the way ABC bled Millionaire into oblivion. Quote
Big Wheel Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 And as for seeing this show tank, I cannot imagine when that may happen. Every single year it pulls better numbers than the last. Got only knows when or even if people will grow tired of it. It will happen. The show is way over exposed now. Between all the clips being played 24/7, syndication, and whatever else they have going on, it will go the way of "Fear Factor" some day soon. I remember there was a time you couldn't go a day without people talking about "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?", and now? I'll put money on at least one of the following two things happening by the end of the 2009 season: a) a drop in audience of 33% or greater; b) a cast shakeup that results in the departure of at least 2 of the 4 personalities (my guess is Seacrest and Abdul, although there's an outside shot that Cowell will expire before either of them leave, smothered in his own milquetoast). Quote
Dan Gould Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 And as for seeing this show tank, I cannot imagine when that may happen. Every single year it pulls better numbers than the last. Got only knows when or even if people will grow tired of it. It will happen. The show is way over exposed now. Between all the clips being played 24/7, syndication, and whatever else they have going on, it will go the way of "Fear Factor" some day soon. I remember there was a time you couldn't go a day without people talking about "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?", and now? I'll put money on at least one of the following two things happening by the end of the 2009 season: a) a drop in audience of 33% or greater; b) a cast shakeup that results in the departure of at least 2 of the 4 personalities (my guess is Seacrest and Abdul, although there's an outside shot that Cowell will expire before either of them leave, smothered in his own milquetoast). If you're offering a wager, I'll take that bet on A). B) is foolish. Seacrest wants to be the biggest radio name in history. His idol is Dick Clark. If you think he'd leave the biggest program on the planet, you're nuts. As far as Paula goes, where else is she going to make this kind of money? No one has rushed in to offer her a record deal. She'll stay and there is no reason for the producers to fire her. The only way that this program goes off the air is if Idol winners start to fail to launch recording careers, one after the other. Only if "America" chooses people that can't succeed in today's pop music market will this show go off the air. It will last through at least the first (third) Clinton administration. Quote
RDK Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 And as for seeing this show tank, I cannot imagine when that may happen. Every single year it pulls better numbers than the last. Got only knows when or even if people will grow tired of it. It will happen. The show is way over exposed now. Between all the clips being played 24/7, syndication, and whatever else they have going on, it will go the way of "Fear Factor" some day soon. I remember there was a time you couldn't go a day without people talking about "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?", and now? I'll put money on at least one of the following two things happening by the end of the 2009 season: a) a drop in audience of 33% or greater; b) a cast shakeup that results in the departure of at least 2 of the 4 personalities (my guess is Seacrest and Abdul, although there's an outside shot that Cowell will expire before either of them leave, smothered in his own milquetoast). Well of course the show will tank eventually; all tv shows do. Still, it's doing gangbusters now, in its sixth season, with its best ratings ever. Fox never expected it to be so successful and run for so long. And gloating about Simon "selling knives" after the show's run its course is like worrying about Bill Gates ending up in the poorhouse if Microsoft ever goes under. I think he'll be okay... Quote
Big Wheel Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) And as for seeing this show tank, I cannot imagine when that may happen. Every single year it pulls better numbers than the last. Got only knows when or even if people will grow tired of it. It will happen. The show is way over exposed now. Between all the clips being played 24/7, syndication, and whatever else they have going on, it will go the way of "Fear Factor" some day soon. I remember there was a time you couldn't go a day without people talking about "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?", and now? I'll put money on at least one of the following two things happening by the end of the 2009 season: a) a drop in audience of 33% or greater; b) a cast shakeup that results in the departure of at least 2 of the 4 personalities (my guess is Seacrest and Abdul, although there's an outside shot that Cowell will expire before either of them leave, smothered in his own milquetoast). Well of course the show will tank eventually; all tv shows do. Still, it's doing gangbusters now, in its sixth season, with its best ratings ever. Fox never expected it to be so successful and run for so long. True, but the tanks these days are usually very rapid for a variety of reasons. AI really took off in seasons 2 and 3, but it appears to be finally peaking (graph the number of viewers of the season premiere per year and you'll see that things are starting to taper off). Also, there really are very, very few hit shows that cross the 300-episode mark. 250-270 seems to be a brick wall to me. AI already has 189. America's Funniest Home Videos had 350, and my guess is that the last 80 or so of those were made after Bob Saget left and nobody even knew that dreck was still running anymore. It's true that there are a bunch of very long-running game shows with 1000+ episodes (Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune being the two big examples), but obviously if AI comes to emulate that model, it will do so with a fraction of its former audience and at a weaker timeslot. I don't think the personalities will leave of their own volition, but I do think there's a good chance the producers will force somebody out (Paula being the prime candidate because of her age - yes, I realize she's the youngest of the judges, but that's Hollywood for you). By 2009 Abdul will be 47, and the other two judges will be over 50. I guarantee you someone behind the scenes is going to get very nervous about that fact and exert pressure to put some younger faces on there. Edited January 21, 2007 by Big Wheel Quote
Dan Gould Posted January 21, 2007 Report Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) True, but the tanks these days are usually very rapid for a variety of reasons. AI really took off in seasons 2 and 3, but it appears to be finally peaking (graph the number of viewers of the season premiere per year and you'll see that things are starting to taper off). I honestly wonder if you know anything at all about television. According to MSNBC, last week's premiere was seen by a record 37.3 million people, representing a five percent INCREASE over last year's record. How do back-to-back record ratings constitute "tapering off"? Also, there really are very, very few hit shows that cross the 300-episode mark. 250-270 seems to be a brick wall to me. AI already has 189. America's Funniest Home Videos had 350, and my guess is that the last 80 or so of those were made after Bob Saget left and nobody even knew that dreck was still running anymore. America's Funniest Home Videos remains in production with a new host, who has been on the show for at least a couple of seasons. IIRC, the show was cancelled after a season or two with Daisy Fuentes as co-host with some knob, but was brought back. It runs Sundays and sometimes Fridays, and tonites episode info gives January 21, 2007 as the first air date. So obviously that show remains a success. Your last comment may or may not be accurate, since it puts two things TV values most at loggerheads: stay young vs don't fuck with a good thing. But you don't know squat about the other things you state so assuredly. Edited January 21, 2007 by Dan Gould Quote
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