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Coming Soon On Proper...

sidewinder

By sidewinder
in Mosaic and other box sets...

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jazzbo Grand Master

jazzbo

Posted
Posted

I dislike Proper. Setting aside the "legal to sell in the US" issue, they rarely include complete sessions which bugs me, and they don't sound that good in comparison with other issues of the same material. I avoid them.

RDK Newbie

RDK

Posted
Posted

I agree that the sound is spotty - some good, some bad - but I find the argument that they don't include complete sessions meaningless. These are simply elaborate compilations, so I don't expect Mosaic-like completeness from them. They serve as fine (and cheap) samplers for getting to know an artists' early work. But you do "get what you pay for" from them.

gmonahan Community Regular

gmonahan

Posted
Posted

I agree that the sound is spotty - some good, some bad - but I find the argument that they don't include complete sessions meaningless. These are simply elaborate compilations, so I don't expect Mosaic-like completeness from them. They serve as fine (and cheap) samplers for getting to know an artists' early work. But you do "get what you pay for" from them.

I'd generally agree with this. I have a few Proper boxes--the Fats Navarro, the Sarah Vaughan, and the recent Jack Teagarden (I *had* to have his Decca version of "Body and Soul"!). I'd be interested in the Tubby Hayes because I have only one ancient Columbia cd by him. Is the material on the Proper box available in a better package elsewhere?

Big Beat Steve Proficient

Big Beat Steve

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Tubbs Proper Box set is also discussed towards the very end of this thread:

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread....9302#post269302

This might give you an impression so you can judge for yourself.

Quite a bit of the Tempo material by Tubby Hayes was reissued on CD by Jasmine a couple of years ago. I only have a few of them and haven't compared everything they reissued with the Proper box but some degree of duplication definitely exists (which is a nuisance as the Jasmine CD's aren't that old or obscure). As for the sound, only those who've heard both reissues can judge.

Generally, the Proper boxes are nice introduction to an artist's work for those who are "novices" in this field. And like it or not over in the States, the 50-year copyright limit laws in Europe make them perfectly legal. Point. Nobody is forced to buy them.

(This point has been discussed often enough here; no use rambling on. A law is a law.)

That aside, initially I was quite impressed by those Proper boxes but after having checked their offerings closer, only two things remain in their favor: 1) Their price (!!), and 2) as pointed out above, they are nice as starters into the work of an artist. But if you go further or already have a good collection you will end up with lots of overlap.

The first Proper box I saw, for example, was the 4-CD set on the work of Milton Brown. Nicely done, I thought, but later I discovered that another, yet more complete box (including ALL and not only a smattering of the recordings under Derwood Brown's name) exists. Completists therefore might want to look elsewhere if the price difference isn't too steep.

With compilations it sometims pays to be EXTRA careful with those Proper boxes. Some time ago (following a discussion on this forum, i think),I got the "Hitting On All Six" Proper set on early (up to mid-50s) jazz guitar. Nice to have in THIS packaging and fairly affordable.

BUT: The track listing (on the cover and also on the internet) is a blatant scam! They list the tracks with the guitar SOLOIST given as the artist alongside, making it look as if those recordings were done by that particular artist as a LEADER. Not so in many cases -many of the recordings actually were made by a totally different band where that guitarist just happened to take a 16-bar solo or so. In many cases, and if you know a bit about jazz of that period this was obvious from the outset (did Floyd Smith ever record "Floyd's Guitar Blues" under his own name? No, it was the Andy Kirk recording, of course, etc.) but it is virtually impossible to check it all out beforehand without actually looking at the lineups in the booklet. In short, unless you have an encyclopedic knowledge of 40 years of jazz and have memorized your discographies for good you end up with a huge amount with duplications.

I think they may have pulled the same trick with other compilations, so BUYER BEWARE (if you already have a sizable jazz collection).

At any rate, this kind of artist credit on the outside of the package (that's usually sealed at the time of purchase) is as idiotic as it can be (or was it maybe intentional ;) ).

Edited by Big Beat Steve
brownie Rookie

brownie

Posted
Posted

Will be looking for that Tubby Hayes Proper -_-

I probably have quite a lot of the material there but they seem to have included items I'm still looking for.

I like those Proper boxes. They're cheap and it's OK with me! I'm cheap, too!

When I want real quality, I go to Mosaic. But won't be tomorrow that we'll have a Tubby Hayes set from them. In the meantime, I'll indulge in Propers...

JohnS Newbie

JohnS

Posted
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the heads up on this one. I don't have very much of this so I'll probably indulge myself.

The new slim packaging is nice by the way.

Edited by JohnS
BruceH Newbie

BruceH

Posted
Posted

I've got a few R&B Proper boxes and they're nice. Sometimes they're complete - Dinah Washington and Wynonie "Mr Blues" Harris - sometimes they're nearly complete - Joe Turner. It doesn't REALLY matter. Going to get the Roy Brown later this year.

MG

I got the Wynonie Harris, and I like it, but no way is it complete.

The Magnificent Goldberg Newbie

The Magnificent Goldberg

Posted
Posted

I've got a few R&B Proper boxes and they're nice. Sometimes they're complete - Dinah Washington and Wynonie "Mr Blues" Harris - sometimes they're nearly complete - Joe Turner. It doesn't REALLY matter. Going to get the Roy Brown later this year.

MG

I got the Wynonie Harris, and I like it, but no way is it complete.

I thought it was all the recordings he made in the period covered. Isn't it?

MG

BruceH Newbie

BruceH

Posted
Posted

I've got a few R&B Proper boxes and they're nice. Sometimes they're complete - Dinah Washington and Wynonie "Mr Blues" Harris - sometimes they're nearly complete - Joe Turner. It doesn't REALLY matter. Going to get the Roy Brown later this year.

MG

I got the Wynonie Harris, and I like it, but no way is it complete.

I thought it was all the recordings he made in the period covered. Isn't it?

MG

It's a heapin' helpin' of Harris, but it's missing some stuff.

The Magnificent Goldberg Newbie

The Magnificent Goldberg

Posted
Posted

I've got a few R&B Proper boxes and they're nice. Sometimes they're complete - Dinah Washington and Wynonie "Mr Blues" Harris - sometimes they're nearly complete - Joe Turner. It doesn't REALLY matter. Going to get the Roy Brown later this year.

MG

I got the Wynonie Harris, and I like it, but no way is it complete.

I thought it was all the recordings he made in the period covered. Isn't it?

MG

It's a heapin' helpin' of Harris, but it's missing some stuff.

Ah, OK - thanks.

MG

felser Veteran

felser

Posted
Posted

I love Proper Boxes. I find the sound to be quite good if the source material has good sound and quite acceptable in all cases, and I don't need every alternate take or vocal performance of a big band.

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