Fresh Sound & Lone Hill Reissues Discussion

[king ubu]

Okay, and what I was thinking about was the compilations like "Red Hot Blues" etc. and the R&B box etc.-- those are well chosen compilations that bring to cd a lot of otherwise orhaned 78s.

I'm not hip to those at all! Sounds good!

WHat I meant was jazz-wise - not much of interest after those black digipack releases came out (Dizzy's Odyssey, the Norvo, Pres etc. sets), maybe some 32jazz reissues, but then that was about it, sadly!

[Peter Friedman]

Records had to have been relatively cheap to "produce" at that time, and then priced very modestly. ally.

$3.98 was the norm, IIRC. Maybe $4.98 for stereo. Or maybe at one (earlier) point, a dollar less both ways.

I bought my first LP in 1968, and that's what prices were then.

I began buying LPs in the mid-50's when they first came out. The prices were what Jim said above. In the 60's one could find LP cutouts for $1.69 to $2.50 each. I recall going to a discount dept. store in Detroit in about 1964 and buying a large number of EmArcy LP cutouts for $1.69 each. Another time I went to an electronics store and found a bunch of original Blue Note LPs for $2.00 each. Typically on a saturday I would make the rounds of a number of discount stores and invariably come home with anywhere from 2 to 8 LPs I had bought at bargain prices.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Records had to have been relatively cheap to "produce" at that time, and then priced very modestly. ally.

$3.98 was the norm, IIRC. Maybe $4.98 for stereo. Or maybe at one (earlier) point, a dollar less both ways.

I bought my first LP in 1968, and that's what prices were then.

I began buying LPs in the mid-50's when they first came out. The prices were what Jim said above. In the 60's one could find LP cutouts for $1.69 to $2.50 each. I recall going to a discount dept. store in Detroit in about 1964 and buying a large number of EmArcy LP cutouts for $1.69 each. Another time I went to an electronics store and found a bunch of original Blue Note LPs for $2.00 each. Typically on a saturday I would make the rounds of a number of discount stores and invariably come home with anywhere from 2 to 8 LPs I had bought at bargain prices.

So how much was a pint of beer in those days?

This is not an idle question. Someone must remember.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

The $3.98 price had held for quite some time. King LPs had catalogue numbers which incorporated the price up until 1956. The 12" 500 series were all $3.95 up to 532, when the price indicator was dropped. The 10" LPs had various prices - $1.59, $1.79, £1.99, $2.19, $2.65, $2.95. But from 295-76 to the end of the 10" series at 295-119, were all $2.95. The interesting thing was that there wasn't a price rise as such in the 10" series - each record seems to have been priced at what Sid Nathan thought the market would bear.

MG

[jeffsjazz]

bumping this up - I gave in and acquired the three volumes of Donald Byrd/Gigi Gryce "complete" sessions (the Newport 1957 half album is missing, but it's on that LPR which also holds the Cecil Taylor set from Newport 57, so I have owned it for years by now anyway).

what do people think of these projects done by Lonehill? I'm also considering the Illinois Jacquet series (I think6 or 7 albums or someting on 4 CDs) and the Johnny Hodges/Wild Bill Davis series (three CDs plus one double, I assume 8 or 9 albums or so).

They're rather expensive usually, which sucks for such stolen releases, but I assume somewhere on the web they can be found for ok prizes...

Ciao Ubu,

How is the Byrd/Gryce 3 cd set?

Thanks, Dr. Jeff

[king ubu]

bumping this up - I gave in and acquired the three volumes of Donald Byrd/Gigi Gryce "complete" sessions (the Newport 1957 half album is missing, but it's on that LPR which also holds the Cecil Taylor set from Newport 57, so I have owned it for years by now anyway).

what do people think of these projects done by Lonehill? I'm also considering the Illinois Jacquet series (I think6 or 7 albums or someting on 4 CDs) and the Johnny Hodges/Wild Bill Davis series (three CDs plus one double, I assume 8 or 9 albums or so).

They're rather expensive usually, which sucks for such stolen releases, but I assume somewhere on the web they can be found for ok prizes...

Ciao Ubu,

How is the Byrd/Gryce 3 cd set?

Thanks, Dr. Jeff

The music's fine of course! But it's a bit weirdly programmed (not chronologically). I haven't been through all of it, but have played about two thirds of it. Don't expect me to give any nuanced reports about sound, but it never sounded particularly bad or weird to me. Sad that such fine music isn't being released by the legitimate owners!

[jeffsjazz]

bumping this up - I gave in and acquired the three volumes of Donald Byrd/Gigi Gryce "complete" sessions (the Newport 1957 half album is missing, but it's on that LPR which also holds the Cecil Taylor set from Newport 57, so I have owned it for years by now anyway).

what do people think of these projects done by Lonehill? I'm also considering the Illinois Jacquet series (I think6 or 7 albums or someting on 4 CDs) and the Johnny Hodges/Wild Bill Davis series (three CDs plus one double, I assume 8 or 9 albums or so).

They're rather expensive usually, which sucks for such stolen releases, but I assume somewhere on the web they can be found for ok prizes...

Ciao Ubu,

How is the Byrd/Gryce 3 cd set?

Thanks, Dr. Jeff

The music's fine of course! But it's a bit weirdly programmed (not chronologically). I haven't been through all of it, but have played about two thirds of it. Don't expect me to give any nuanced reports about sound, but it never sounded particularly bad or weird to me. Sad that such fine music isn't being released by the legitimate owners!

No doubt,thanks King

Dr. J

[king ubu]

add the Joe Maini set to the list of fine Lone Hill reissues - separate thread here

[Niko]

James Moody / Kenny Barron - Fly me to the moon

got this lonehill twofer of two james moody argo albums a few weeks ago and strongly recommend it... the first album, comin' on strong features moody, barron, chris white on bass, rudy collins on drums (gillespie's rhythm section) and the highly interesting guitar player george eskridge (i see he is also on one of sam lazar's argo albums... hope that one becomes available, too) this is the best moody album i've heard so far besides return from overbrook... the second album is pretty interesting as well moody and barron plus four musicians from chicago including paul serrano on trumpet...

[mikeweil]

Fresh Sound does a lot of nice compilations US labels would never get around to, like the Sahib Shihab, compiling sessions, including half albums and single tracks scattered over anthologies on several labels, on to one double disc - Mosaic could do this, but probably avoids the copyright hassle.

Same for the Carmen McRae - the Fresh Sound completes her first sessions with small group backing for Stardust/Bethlehem and Decca, some of her nicest sessions, IMO. Who else would have done this?

Edited August 8, 2008 by mikeweil

[bruce talbot]

Records had to have been relatively cheap to "produce" at that time, and then priced very modestly. ally.

$3.98 was the norm, IIRC. Maybe $4.98 for stereo. Or maybe at one (earlier) point, a dollar less both ways.

I bought my first LP in 1968, and that's what prices were then.

I began buying LPs in the mid-50's when they first came out. The prices were what Jim said above. In the 60's one could find LP cutouts for $1.69 to $2.50 each. I recall going to a discount dept. store in Detroit in about 1964 and buying a large number of EmArcy LP cutouts for $1.69 each. Another time I went to an electronics store and found a bunch of original Blue Note LPs for $2.00 each. Typically on a saturday I would make the rounds of a number of discount stores and invariably come home with anywhere from 2 to 8 LPs I had bought at bargain prices.

So how much was a pint of beer in those days?

This is not an idle question. Someone must remember.

MG

In 1964 the most expensive pint you could buy in a saloon bar in London cost two shillings and sixpence - or the equivalent of about 12 p. We usually drank cheaper stuff that cost about just under two shillings. By 1968 I can remember drinking draft Heineken imported from Holland for 4/6 a pint. I think I earned about 12 quid a week at the Beeb at that time.

[John L]

Fresh Sound does a lot of nice compilations US labels would never get around to, like the Sahib Shihab, compiling sessions, including half albums and single tracks scattered over anthologies on several labels, on to one double disc - Mosaic could do this, but probably avoids the copyright hassle.

Same for the Carmen McRae - the Fresh Sound completes her first sessions with small group backing for Stardust/Bethlehem and Decca, some of her nicest sessions, IMO. Who else would have done this?

Yes, the Fresh Sound releases have a whole different feel about them than the Lonehill-Gambit group. The programming, packaging, and liner notes are intelligent.

[jostber]

A couple of my favourites of their releases:

[king ubu]

I have the 90s Avenue/Rhino version of the Bethlehem sides of McRae... more and more, these Fresh Sounds tend to combine some used-to-be-readily-available with more obscure material, it seems. I'm unwilling to pay their way too high prizes just to get 20 minutes of bonus or whatever there is... the McRae doesn't do that much for me, anyway. I love her Columbia (Sony/Legacy) homage to Billie Holiday, though!

[Big Beat Steve]

more and more, these Fresh Sounds tend to combine some used-to-be-readily-available with more obscure material, it seems. I'm unwilling to pay their way too high prizes just to get 20 minutes of bonus or whatever there is...

Am glad to hear I am not the only one who's had that impression. I still appreciate the Fresh Sound reissue policy very much (as they really go where hardly any reissuers have cared to go for a long time) but what galls me is that whenever it comes to reissuing two LP's on one CD in their current catalog, it seems Jordi Pujol (or whoever is in charge right now) has made a habit of combining one LP from their previous vinyl reissue program with another one that's not been reissued for ages. And as I have quite a lot of their reissue LP's from the 80s/early 90s (and am NOT going to part with my vinyl) this leaves me in a bit of a fix sometimes ... Paying full price for half the music? I dunno ....

As they ought to know there must be a LOT of collectors who've been following their reissues since the vinyl days it would not have been a bad thing if they had adjusted their reissue policy accordingly (e.g. by avoiding to combine all-new reissue items with items that THEY THEMSELVES reissued previously).

[king ubu]

Well, in my case it's not their own previous reissues, but rather things like their Frank Rosolino album which includes the Mode album (fantastic album, but readily available from VSOP). The Mode album by Eddie Costa is now also part of such a package, I think, and the McRae. If their releases were cheaper, I wouldn't mind the occasional duplication, but unlike Lonehill, they cost a fortune and some...

[Big Beat Steve]

Well, as far as I can see the price difference between FS and LH isn't that huge. And Lonehill is guilty of the same thing anyway. Talking about Eddie Costa, I'd have jumped for the House of Blue Lights reissue on Lonehill right away, but it's coupled with the Costa-Burke Trio release on Jubilee that had been reissued by Fresh Sound themselves! So it all comes from the same stable.

[king ubu]

Yes, the constant partial overlappings of Lonehill and Fresh Sound and Gambit (and whatever else there is) is annoying, too.

Often ironically you end up buying a "complete" 80 minute CD for one original album, while you have the rest of it on another of their discs... also often their bonus track policy makes no sense at all.

[mikeweil]

... also often their bonus track policy makes no sense at all.

That's true, unfortunately. I recently bought the A.K. Salim double disc. It includes all of his leader dates for Savoy, of course no unreleased material (the Savoy disco says there are still a few tracks on the shelf), and the two alternates issued on the recent US reissue of "Pretty for the People" are not included - although there would have been enough playing capacity left. I don't know, perhaps they don't want to make it too obvious where they get their material from ...

Anyway, I ended up burning the two alternates on to a CD single and will sell the other issues - I need shelf space real bad!

[Niko]

I don't know, perhaps they don't want to make it too obvious where they get their material from ...

anyone else find it cute how they use photoshop to erase the original label names from the original covers when reprinting them...

[robviti]

yeah, piracy is cute.

[Niko]

oh yes!

also, did you ever wonder, why lonehill reissues have aaj under recommended webpages (as well as vervemusicgroup.com and bluenote.com ?!) but not organissimo?

[king ubu]

oh yes!

also, did you ever wonder, why lonehill reissues have aaj under recommended webpages (as well as vervemusicgroup.com and bluenote.com ?!) but not organissimo?

because AAJ is big business, doing promotion, reviews etc - the board there is just a small and not that important part of it?

I remember when I interviewed Patrick Landolt, founder/owner/head of Intakt Records, he mentioned AAJ as one of the sites that do matter - contrary to old-fashioned stiff rags such as Downbeat.

[Big Al]

Any thoughts on one I saw yesterday: THE NEW JOHNNY SMITH QUARTET

The track order suggests that it's a rip from the Smith Mosaic. Any thoughts before I plunk down the cash for this?

[felser]

oh yes!

also, did you ever wonder, why lonehill reissues have aaj under recommended webpages (as well as vervemusicgroup.com and bluenote.com ?!) but not organissimo?

because AAJ is big business, doing promotion, reviews etc - the board there is just a small and not that important part of it?

I remember when I interviewed Patrick Landolt, founder/owner/head of Intakt Records, he mentioned AAJ as one of the sites that do matter - contrary to old-fashioned stiff rags such as Downbeat.

AAJ management contacted me recently to politely kick me off their classifieds page. They said I was the last remaining "professional" seller there! I didn't argue with them, did mention that I'm just a normal guy with an oversized jazz CD appetite. If this was my profession, my family and I would starve!