Fresh Sound & Lone Hill Reissues Discussion

[Swinging Swede]

Here is one, released last year, that seems to have pretty much slipped under the radar of this board, although it should have attracted a lot of attention:

Clifford Brown/Max Roach Quintet - More Live At The Bee Hive (RLR)

1) This double CD contains a previously unissued (and unknown to the general discographies) live session with the Brown-Roach Quintet from June 30, 1955, which supposedly has much better sound than the later previously known Bee Hive session from November 1955 (which has been reissued on Lone Hill Jazz). One of the tracks is a 22-minute version of After You've Gone, a tune that the group never recorded elsewhere. How often do we get an hour and a half of previously unissued Brownie? I think this is an amazing find! (Perhaps it has circulated among collectors, but I can't remember having seen any reference to this session before.)

2) As a "bonus" we get the entire Pure Genius album which was on an Elektra/Musician LP. It is thought to have been recorded in early 1956, and has the later version of the group with Sonny Rollins instead of Harold Land.

[king ubu]

I have "Pure Genius" on LP and the other Bee Hive date, too... are you sure this one here's a different? Will have to check my Brownie boots to see if I have it...

As for Groove Hut, this one's excellent, I reported buying it elsewhere, already:

I assume it's a rip-off of some japanese Argo reissues, but I have no idea. Never saw any Willette except the two Conns which I've had for a long time!

[Swinging Swede]

I have "Pure Genius" on LP and the other Bee Hive date, too... are you sure this one here's a different?

Different from the November session? Yes, absolutely. Here are the track listings:

The Bee Hive, Chicago, Illinois, June 30, 1955

1. After You've Gone 21:52

2. Blues 15:07

3. Jordu 14:07

4. The Song Is You 17:37

5. Ballad Medley 10:14

-a. My Funny Valentine

-b. Darn That Dream

-c. It Might As Well Be Spring

6. What Am I Here For? 13:04

The Bee Hive, Chicago, Illinois, November 7, 1955

1. Cherokee 19:44

2. I'll Remember April, Part I 22:05

3. I'll Remember April, Part II 8:47

4. Woody'n You 13:20

5. Hot House 12:24

6. Walkin' 20:00

[Swinging Swede]

As for Groove Hut, this one's excellent, I reported buying it elsewhere, already:

I assume it's a rip-off of some japanese Argo reissues, but I have no idea. Never saw any Willette except the two Conns which I've had for a long time!

Yes, it combines his two 1964 Argo albums Mo' Rock and Behind The 8 Ball, and both have indeed been out on Japanese CDs not that long ago. Those are the editions I have.

The two Blue Notes and the two Argos were the only albums under his own name that were released. There is however also an unissued Argo session from 1965. I remember that at the old Verve board (anyone remember that?), we suggested to Mark@Verve that they release it, and he had no idea what we were talking about.

That's another question. What about Andorran releases of material that's available on Japanese CDs? They too are properly licensed, and with royalties going to the musicians and their relatives, I suppose.

[Larry Kart]

Great Lone Hill album title -- "Tony Scott and the Three Dicks." That would be Katz, Garcia, and Hyman.

Something else I owe to the Lone Hill family -- the four tracks with Harry Edison, Sonny Criss, Jimmy Rowles, John Simmons, and Buddy Rich that they've added to their pirating of the Verve "Buddy And Sweets" album (with the same lineup, plus Barney Kessel and minus Criss). The Edison-Criss date (I shamefully admit) is very good.

[Swinging Swede]

The Cleveland looks interesting, it contains his 4 Mercury albums, yes? The only one I have so far is the Verve Elite Edition of "Introducing Jimmy Cleveland" - a great disc!

Yes, it contains his four EmArcy/Mercury albums:

1) Introducing Jimmy Cleveland (1955) [OOP VEE CD]

2) Cleveland Style (1957) [OOP Japanese CD]

3) A Map Of Jimmy Cleveland (1958)

4) Rhythm Crazy (1959)

It's almost like a mini-Mosaic. The cover shot is obviously taken from the first album:

[jeffsjazz]

Concur on Cleveland

[Larry Kart]

Broke down and bought "More Live from the Beehive." Have to say that the band in general, with the exception of Land, is in fairly tepid form; Brown (by his own high standard) sounds about as untogether (not technicially but in terms of coherent, long-lined thinking) as I can remember ever hearing, and Roach seems similarly disengaged. I get the feeling of the last set on the the last night of the gig, with few people in the club and the band thinking about leaving town. Completists will want it, but IMO this is miles below the level of the Nov. 7 Beehive material, though admittedly that may have been as hot a night as any band ever had.

Perhaps this is God's revenge upon those who succumb to the Lone Hill impulse.

[danasgoodstuff]

Recently bought the Complete Omega tapes thing, mostly so I could finally hear the two tunes previously issued only on some long forgotten compilation - "jazz Blues" & "Blues Jazz". Nice, short period genre pieces, one med boogie, one slow honking blues. Not surprisingly Carl Perkins sounds more at home getting down in this fashion. Nice bonus was the interesting notes. And I felt no guilt since EMI/Blue Note?Mosaic have had forever to make this stuff fully available and failed...

[king ubu]

Larry, what's the problem with Land on this set? I love him more with Roach/Brown than on his later things with Hutcherson, his old-fashioned sound in the mid 50s is a sound I dwell in... he's terrific on "Study in Brown", I think!

[shaft]

Hi Guys,

I would just like to add that I have had better experiences with Fresh Sound than Lonehill releases. The Fresh sounds like they put more work in their releases when it comes to sound quality and packaging. The LoneHills are (the 5 discs I have) somewhat muddy and the source sounds like not proper remastering from master tapes but from other resources like vinyl or other tape sources.

I'm quite confused about the legal licensing matter but my general standpoint is that IF there is a legit release Japanese or whatever, I fork up the money for that release and feel good ;-)

If it's not available, or is not likely to be, I might in rare occasions (ie 5) go for that release.

Just my 5 cents....

/Shaft

[Larry Kart]

Larry, what's the problem with Land on this set? I love him more with Roach/Brown than on his later things with Hutcherson, his old-fashioned sound in the mid 50s is a sound I dwell in... he's terrific on "Study in Brown", I think!

King U -- What I wrote above was "the band in general, with the exception of Land, is in fairly tepid form..." That is, Land IMO is in very good form on "More Live at the Beehive," while the rest of the band is not.

[king ubu]

Oh, sorry... good then! I should have looked up "tepid" and I would have gotten you right! For me then a reason to get it!

[Kyo]

Is the "Stan Getz Quintet at Carnegie Hall" disc any good? I'm a bit worried about the sound.

[king ubu]

bumping this up - I gave in and acquired the three volumes of Donald Byrd/Gigi Gryce "complete" sessions (the Newport 1957 half album is missing, but it's on that LPR which also holds the Cecil Taylor set from Newport 57, so I have owned it for years by now anyway).

what do people think of these projects done by Lonehill? I'm also considering the Illinois Jacquet series (I think6 or 7 albums or someting on 4 CDs) and the Johnny Hodges/Wild Bill Davis series (three CDs plus one double, I assume 8 or 9 albums or so).

They're rather expensive usually, which sucks for such stolen releases, but I assume somewhere on the web they can be found for ok prizes...

[AllenLowe]

"they can be found for ok prizes... "

I'll take what's behind door number 2 -

[mikeweil]

Ubu, where do you buy them? My experience is that ordering from the Fresh Sound website is the cheapest - at least the price plus postage and customs (if applicable) is still below what I pay when I order them at my local retailer, who gets them from Fenn Music Service - and this distributor doesn't carry all titles, it seems.

Plus, their service was fast - Barcelona to Flörsheim in no more than two days, always!

I think without them a lot of this music wouldn't be available - sometimes there are tracks missing (mostly alternate takes), but OTOH they often add obscure and rare things. Now that the majors care less and less about reissuing their back catalogue, I'd rather buy one of theirs.

Some Lonehills sound strange when dubbed from vinyl - now there's a risk. Their de-noisung software is not the best, it seems, or their sources are.

[king ubu]

I bought the Byrd/Gryces in a local store, but I also just ordered a few things via their website (Fantasy titles plus the Klemmer LPR in their mini sales) - the delivery was indeed superfast!

I learned since (thanks to niko) that their ebay store seems to have slightly better conditions (can't remember on which ebay page it is, but a little searching would certainly bring that to light).

The Hodges/Davis at the local store all had some slight damages in the booklets (alright, I'm anal...) so I thought I might rather get them via that ebay store eventually.

[king ubu]

Here it is:

http://stores.ebay.com/Absolute-Distribution

Prizes seem to have been adapted to the low dollar, but then that's fair enough, as they're a European organisation and the low dollar income would affect their business... they ship without jewel cases, too (good deal if you order digipacks... he he).

[king ubu]

and another post:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CECIL-TAYLOR-Jazz-Adva...1742.m153.l1262

This CT disc adds the Newport 1957 set of Taylor's band - too bad Lonehill left off the Byrd/Gryce set from their series.

The Fresh Sound store though seems not to carry any of their distribution labels, so for Lonehill and Defnitive etc, their website seems the way to go.

[mikeweil]

I dunno - on their website they ask for € 85.00 (USD 101.07) for the new Arsenio Rodriguez box set; in the ebay shop, it's US $124.50 ....

For the A.K.Salim double CD it's € 17.50 (USD 20.81) on their website, US $34.85 on ebay.

Even if the shipping charges are higher on their website (I haven't compared those), I'll stick to their site.

I won't buy anything for the next months anyway, except for a Mosaic that I really want going last chance, as I just found a used set of Gon Bops timbales from the 1970's - something I have been searching for more than 20 years! Cost me € 374.00 including new heads ........

[king ubu]

well, then enjoy your timbales!

remember you can still earn another 50€ if you sell me your CD player...

[mikeweil]

... minus the gasoline to Basel or whereever

[king ubu]

... minus the gasoline to Basel or whereever

Yeah, but the one beer you're allowed when you drive will be on me! (Or else some coffee or whatever...)

[Guest Bill Barton]

The heck with CDs...

Those timbales are beautiful!