felser Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 An amazing 1965 performance with the then relatively unknown group of Michael White, Jerry Hahn, Don Thompson, and Terry Clarke. Two genre-defining performances totalling over 45 minutes. Nothing quite like it had ever been widely heard before as far as I know, and the shockwaves throughout the jazz world were heard for the next ten years. Unclear to me why this groundbreaking performance seems so forgotten today and why it can't stay in print, because it was a sensation in it's day, and a seminal moment in my jazz listening experience when I was introduced to it in 1972 by a persistent mentor/salesman at Franklin Records. He said that if I didn't think it was fantastic, I could bring it back. Needless to say, I kept it. Handy made some more ground-breaking albums in similar veins for Columbia the next few years - the nightmare of 'Hard Work' was still a decade off. Hahn and White did some very adventurous work which never fit well into a given musical label (like this album didn't). Thompson and each Clarke did great work as a in a number of settings, including Thompson's participation on a great live album with Paul Desmond in the 70's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted January 13, 2007 Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 That's one of my favorite live jazz recordings, since I first heard it 30 or so years ago. Even Mingus didn't want to follow this performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I like this album better than its cousin Forest Flower. My favorite bit is John Handy's long bluesy solo on the first track. Both performances are very intense though I really wonder what the group would have sounded like with Elvin Jones or Tony Williams. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stereojack Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I like this album better than its cousin Forest Flower. My favorite bit is John Handy's long bluesy solo on the first track. Both performances are very intense though I really wonder what the group would have sounded like with Elvin Jones or Tony Williams. I bought this when it first came out, and it spun on my turntable many times! I was surprised to find out years later that music was performed opposite of how the LP was programmed, with "If Only We Knew" having been played first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted January 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 I was surprised to find out years later that music was performed opposite of how the LP was programmed, with "If Only We Knew" having been played first. I can understand Columbia reversing the cuts, as "Spanish Lady"' is much more immediately gripping to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Bought it when it came out. Never understood the reputation (considering all the stuff going on at the time). Nice record. That's all as I see it. Musta' been wonderful for "those Californians". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted January 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Bought it when it came out. Never understood the reputation (considering all the stuff going on at the time). Nice record. That's all as I see it. Musta' been wonderful for "those Californians". Chuck, I know that was quite a period for the music. Was there anything else that sounded like that Handy group? The closest I can think of was the Chico Hamilton group with Lloyd and Szabo (and boy is THAT an underappreciated group. Why are so many of those albums OOP?), but they didn't have anything like Michael White, and weren't working in long form like the Handy group did here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 They seemed "behind the curve". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted January 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 They seemed "behind the curve". Who was ahead of them on the same curve? I ask to make sure I'm not missing anything from that period that I will want to go back and check into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 They seemed "behind the curve". Who was ahead of them on the same curve? I ask to make sure I'm not missing anything from that period that I will want to go back and check into. Did not care about the "same curve". This was after late Trane, Ornette and Ayler. Them's the curves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted January 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 (edited) Did not care about the "same curve". This was after late Trane, Ornette and Ayler. Them's the curves. Apples and oranges. I'll take this over any Ayler and almost any Ornette, and any late (post 'Transition') Trane except maybe 'Meditations', but they're very different things. Edited January 14, 2007 by felser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Did not care about the "same curve". This was after late Trane, Ornette and Ayler. Them's the curves. Apples and oranges. I'll take this over any Ayler and almost any Ornette, and any late (post 'Transition') Trane except maybe 'Meditations', but they're very different things. Not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted January 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Did not care about the "same curve". This was after late Trane, Ornette and Ayler. Them's the curves. Apples and oranges. I'll take this over any Ayler and almost any Ornette, and any late (post 'Transition') Trane except maybe 'Meditations', but they're very different things. Not for me. Understood, it's not your cup of tea. It's just very different than the guys you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 14, 2007 Report Share Posted January 14, 2007 Differnt curves curve at different angles, I guess. Never have really heard this one. Heard it a few times over the years, and it seemed really good, but never did it stop me in my tracks. But it's been 20 years or so since the last time, so who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 While it’s not earth-shattering from a jazz perspective, it’s more important as a precursor of the hippie rock jams later in the decade. To me, “Spanish Key” sounds like a missing link between early-1960s Coltrane and the Allman Brothers Band. It’s an album that has much broader appeal than just jazz listeners. The quintet regrouped for a reunion set that was released in 1996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted January 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 To me, “Spanish Key” sounds like a missing link between early-1960s Coltrane and the Allman Brothers Band Great point! Afro-Blue-->Spanish Lady-->In Memory of Elizabeth Reed (really). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Clugston Posted January 15, 2007 Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) To me, “Spanish Key” sounds like a missing link between early-1960s Coltrane and the Allman Brothers Band Great point! Afro-Blue-->Spanish Lady-->In Memory of Elizabeth Reed (really). I was thinking more "Whipping Post," but "Elizabeth Reed" is another good example. Duane Allman was an admirer of Coltrane. Edited January 15, 2007 by B. Clugston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted January 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) To me, “Spanish Key” sounds like a missing link between early-1960s Coltrane and the Allman Brothers Band Great point! Afro-Blue-->Spanish Lady-->In Memory of Elizabeth Reed (really). I was thinking more "Whipping Post," but "Elizabeth Reed" is another good example. Duane Allman was an admirer of Coltrane. I got into jazz in '72 by checking out 'A Love Supreme' from my college library album browser. I was drawn to do so out of curiosity because Roger McGuinn of the Byrds and Jorma Kaukonen and Jack Casady of the Jefferson Airplane had identified Trane as a major influence on their work in the 60's. Similar experimenting with listening to Ravi Shankar did not produce the same joyful results. Edited January 15, 2007 by felser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 They seemed "behind the curve". Who was ahead of them on the same curve? I ask to make sure I'm not missing anything from that period that I will want to go back and check into. You might want to check out that Jerry Hahn Quintet record that Arhoolie reissued on CD. I remember thinking it was solid, but don't have a reference copy of it now. As far as where it is on the "curve"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 While it’s not earth-shattering from a jazz perspective, it’s more important as a precursor of the hippie rock jams later in the decade. To me, “Spanish Key” sounds like a missing link between early-1960s Coltrane and the Allman Brothers Band. It’s an album that has much broader appeal than just jazz listeners. The quintet regrouped for a reunion set that was released in 1996. Thought I would bump this up for renewed discussion since some people may have now heard this material for the first time through the John Handy Mosaic Select release. I was surprised the first time through how few people were familiar with this material. I assume Chuck still doesn't care for it , but would be interested in any new thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) I pulled a sealed copy out of some sellout bin more than 20 years ago and bought it for its reputation - I had already heard John Handy live with Ali Akbar Kahn and had LPs with Don Thompson and Terry Clarke, but I never warmed to this one. Must have been great for those who attended the festival, but sound just nice, but nothing more, on the LP. The follow up, which I found some years later, I found to be harmless. Berendt had raved about this beeing one of the most exciting groups on the scene at the time, but, well ... Frankly speaking, I think John Handy never really fulfilled the promise of his audible potential - the encounter with Ali Akbar Kahn was the most interesting I heard from him, but ,unlike Charlie Mariano, Handy did not assimilate any Indian playing influences, making jazz and Indian music stand beside each other instead of really merging them. That's a Select box I really do not need ... Edited April 9, 2009 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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