John Tchicai

[B. Goren.]

Dear friends,

Your recommendations are required. Where do I start???

[Head Man]

His 2003 CD on Soul Note, 'Big Chief Dreaming' is a good listen but for me his greatest recordings were those he made in the 1960's with the then cream of the New York avant-garde - Archie Shepp, Don Cherry, Roswell Rudd, Reggie Workman, Don Moore, Milford Graves etc. If you like that kind of music then I wholeheartedly recommend:

'The New York Contemporary Five' with Don Cherry & Archie Shepp (Storyville STCD 8209)

'Consequences' with Don Cherry & Archie Shepp

'Mohawk' with Roswell Rudd

'Rufus' with Archie Shepp

Unfortunately, apart from the Storyville CD, all of the others are very hard to find but I know that Downtown Music Gallery

has them available as CD-Rs which is probably the only realistic way of getting hold of them now.

Edited December 31, 2006 by Head Man

[JohnS]

Head Man is right, these are the one to get, plus Sheop's For For Trane.

[B. Goren.]

Thank you all. I ordered Big Chief Dreaming and John Tchicai's Infinitesimal Flash.

Edited January 1, 2007 by B. Goren.

[brownie]

Another recommendation for the 'Mohawk' album on Fontana by the New York Art Quartet. It should be hard to find!

Easier to find might be 35th Reunion CD by the NY Art Quartet. It's on DIW and also recommended! Also try to get the MPS album 'Afrodisacia'

[Alexander Hawkins]

I also enjoy 'The African Tapes', with Tchicai, Don Moye, and Hartmut Geerken.

[Swinger]

I have not hear "Timo's Message" on Black Saint label but i've heard it should be a good one.

[clifford_thornton]

Yeah, the NYAQ sides on ESP and Fontana (and the faux-NYAQ on America, under Rudd's name) are all excellent. Ditto the NYCF, Rufus and Four for Trane.

Really, his music took a rather interesting turn with Cadentia Nova Danica. That group, though short-lived, had a pair of wonderful sides on Polydor and MPS. The former is self-titled and the latter is called Afrodisiaca. Beautiful, rhythm-heavy orchestral things with a fair dose of sound-masses and occasional lighter, folk melodies.

He also waxed a couple of interesting dates for the Dutch ICP label, one in a trio with Bennink and Mengelberg, the other in a quartet adding Derek Bailey. Poorly-recorded and somewhat "of their time," I still enjoy them, especially the trio. Both are, as near as I can tell, "untitled" (as with most early ICP records). It would be nice to see some of these reissued as well.

Despite seeming like a stormer at first, Willi the Pig (reissued on the Unheard Music Series) leaves me a bit cold. But some might disagree.

Here's a Paris Transatlantic piece on Cadentia that I wrote a while back. It has since been significantly revised, so please keep that in mind.

Cadentia Nova Danica

[Alexander Hawkins]

Yeah, the NYAQ sides on ESP and Fontana (and the faux-NYAQ on America, under Rudd's name) are all excellent. Ditto the NYCF, Rufus and Four for Trane.

Really, his music took a rather interesting turn with Cadentia Nova Danica. That group, though short-lived, had a pair of wonderful sides on Polydor and MPS. The former is self-titled and the latter is called Afrodisiaca. Beautiful, rhythm-heavy orchestral things with a fair dose of sound-masses and occasional lighter, folk melodies.

He also waxed a couple of interesting dates for the Dutch ICP label, one in a trio with Bennink and Mengelberg, the other in a quartet adding Derek Bailey. Poorly-recorded and somewhat "of their time," I still enjoy them, especially the trio. Both are, as near as I can tell, "untitled" (as with most early ICP records). It would be nice to see some of these reissued as well.

Despite seeming like a stormer at first, Willi the Pig (reissued on the Unheard Music Series) leaves me a bit cold. But some might disagree.

Here's a Paris Transatlantic piece on Cadentia that I wrote a while back. It has since been significantly revised, so please keep that in mind.

Cadentia Nova Danica

I would absolutely love to hear those ICP sides! What groups..!

I'm very fond of 'Willi the Pig' [not a sentence I utter much..] - I think Schweizer is fantastic on it.

[clifford_thornton]

The ICPs are numbers 2 and 5, for what it's worth. Too bad Mengelberg and Bennink aren't inclined to reissue old material (and nor do they seem to want anybody else to, either). You're right, Schweizer is hip on Willi the Pig, but for whatever reason I'm not a big fan of that LP. Much prefer her work with Rudiger Carl and Louis Moholo (considering the time period), and Tchicai's work with other groups.

I forwarded the review to John Tchicai and he wrote back astonished "who has written it?"

Guess he didn't see it when it first appeared. Thanks.

Ah, thanks for forwarding it along - I'd consulted him a bit when in the "idea" stage but thought he'd seen the published version. Peter Riley's poem "The Whole Band" is a great (lengthy) take on Tchicai and Cadentia Nova Danica - I'll have to credit our own Nate Dorward for hipping me to his work.

[ep1str0phy]

He puts in some fine, fine playing with Johnny Dyani, especially opposite Dudu Pukwana on "Witchdoctor's Son". Now that is some joyful noise. To add to the former comments--the Roswell Rudd America album (which is essentially a NYAQ album, anyway)--is good, as is the drummerless music on Real Tchicai.

[clifford_thornton]

I really love that America record. It's a shame that it gets so few props (I don't think the NYAQ gets enough props, either). Amen on the Dyani Steeplechase records.

BTW, Nate told me that I was the first to publish Peter Riley in North America (1969).

Very interesting, indeed. Not being as deeply into the poetry angle as I am the music angle, I can't say what Riley's position in it is. However, friends who publish and publish in respected journals of vanguard writing (both recent and recent past) don't know his work, which I find surprising. Mr. Red forwarded me an interesting interview with him on the subject of Derek Bailey, so I suspect his ties to the music world are greater than those to the word.

It's too bad that, for purposes of this discussion, "The Whole Band" isn't what you could call "visible."

[Alexander Hawkins]

I really love that America record. It's a shame that it gets so few props (I don't think the NYAQ gets enough props, either). Amen on the Dyani Steeplechase records.

BTW, Nate told me that I was the first to publish Peter Riley in North America (1969).

Very interesting, indeed. Not being as deeply into the poetry angle as I am the music angle, I can't say what Riley's position in it is. However, friends who publish and publish in respected journals of vanguard writing (both recent and recent past) don't know his work, which I find surprising. Mr. Red forwarded me an interesting interview with him on the subject of Derek Bailey, so I suspect his ties to the music world are greater than those to the word.

It's too bad that, for purposes of this discussion, "The Whole Band" isn't what you could call "visible."

I'm pretty sure Riley was at the early (Braxton/Lacy era) Company Weeks, for instance.

[clifford_thornton]

Right - and published poems and prose analyses of the proceedings (still available from Incus/Compatible, in fact). His writing style sometimes fits very well with the music; at other times its raw emotion seems distant from my own reaction to the music of Bailey and his comrades.

Certainly, though, Riley is a "non-idiomatic" writer, or seemed to become one. That's probably the better connection anyway.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Right - and published poems and prose analyses of the proceedings (still available from Incus/Compatible, in fact). His writing style sometimes fits very well with the music; at other times its raw emotion seems distant from my own reaction to the music of Bailey and his comrades.

Certainly, though, Riley is a "non-idiomatic" writer, or seemed to become one. That's probably the better connection anyway.

Great - I might try to pick that up! I've seen them before, but didn't know how available (or not) they were. I seem to remember some fairly humourous margin notes about the more out stuff (is there a fairly funny aside about Braxton? Rings a bell!)

[clifford_thornton]

I can't remember but it wouldn't surprise me. Braxton is a ringer, indeed...

[B. Goren.]

Thanks again for your recommendations. This one has been added to my order:

[clifford_thornton]

Hope yours doesn't have those radio call letters on the front - yeesh!