Bob Dylan corner

[felser]

4 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Taken with or taken in by?

Either way, a quintessentially American place to be...and yet we love!

Both, of course! 

[JSngry]

A quintessentially American place to be!

[mjzee]

2 hours ago, felser said:

My apologies if this has been discussed in the past - what do people consider to be the essential books about Dylan?  I just finished the Griel Marcus "Dylan 1968-2010" collection of his writings on Dylan, and have read the Robert Shelton "No Direction Home" and Dylan's own "Chronicles" and have the "Lyrics 1962-1985" book.   And I have a couple of others laying around - "The Bob Dylan Scrapbook", "The Bob Dylan Companion", Hajdu's "Positively 4th Street", Heylin's "Behind The Shades (Revisited)" , Ricks's "Dylan's Visions of Sin", all collected in used/outlet book store shopping trips through the years.  And I have McGregor's "Retrospective" on the way.  And several videos including the deluxe "Don't Look Back" and the Scorsese "No Direction Home", which I have watched.  What am I missing that I need?  Which of the unread ones I have are or are not worth my time?   BTW, love the new "Rough and Rowdy Ways"!

One that I liked was Paul Williams's "Dylan - What Happened?"  Williams was a long time Dylan follower, and this book was a result of trying to understand Slow Train Coming and the first Warfield concerts.  His descriptions of the Warfield concerts are essential, as it includes Dylan's stage patter that (I think) were left off the box set.  Here's a good review from Goodreads: "Paul Williams grapples with his heroes acceptance of Christ. This book was written as Dylan was playing his Gospel tour with 14 shows at the Warfield Theater in San Francisco 1979. Interesting to read Williams account of each show he attended as they just happened. Also interesting how much fear and doubt about his own beliefs he lays out in the text. At 128 pages it's more a treatise on Williams psyche that Dylan's. Funny how fear and uncertainty about Dylan's artistic growth says more about his fans than the artist himself."  There's a longer review on Goodreads that's also spot on: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1818306.Dylan_What_Happened_

[Gdgray]

Geez, all this Bob talk... forced me to pull out first pressing of Nashville Skyline that my wife gave me along  with new turntable and some Miles’s 70’s bootlegs for retirement present 5 years ago.

This was big record for me in summer of 69. Definitely picked up different vibe after    
all those records that made you think. You could just relax and think about everyday life when the world was going crazy.

I dug his religious period too. My Mom was a Gospel singer and I attended a lot of gospel concerts. In the documentary The Gospel Songs of Bob Dylan the artists that sang were the cream of the African American singers. It was impressive how they interpreted his songs. I especially enjoy Alicia Keys performance. I came away with a new appreciation of songs from that period. I am a fan, what can I say!

can you hear....John Wesley Harding ...I dreamed I saw St Augustine.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Gdgray
Grammar

[jazzbo]

"John Wesley Harding". . . I return to this one more and more as time goes by. Just such vivid yet ambiguous imagery and wording. And such a wonderfully spare and vibrant musical atmosphere for most of it. This album gets under my skin.

[John L]

9 minutes ago, jazzbo said:

"John Wesley Harding". . . I return to this one more and more as time goes by. Just such vivid yet ambiguous imagery and wording. And such a wonderfully spare and vibrant musical atmosphere for most of it. This album gets under my skin.

Yes, John Wesley Harding has a certain mystical quality for me.  I remember as a child when a local FM station first played the album before it was actually released, and I taped it on a small reel-to-reel.  I listened to it over and over in terrible sound.  Dylan hadn't released anything since Blonde on Blonde and rumors had been circulating that he might be dead.  And then this...

[Gdgray]

I find Pat Garret and Billy the Kid soundtrack overlooked a bit like JWH. There is some good music amongst the instrumentals. Another gap between New Morning in 1970 and Pat Garrett in 1973. I always looked at All things Must Pass and New Morning with same eye, probably because both out in 1970 and have "If Not for You".  Some of my favorite live Dylan songs are the five on The Concert for Bangladesh and rarely mentioned. What a classic version of Hard Rain and killer version of Just Like a Woman. 

[felser]

I've always found JWH's lyrics to be fascinating,  endlessly yielding new meanings.

[mjzee]

Bob Dylan Just Released the Ultra-Rare 1970 ‘George Harrison Sessions’ Without Warning

[mjzee]

And the mining of the vault continues:

1970' includes 74 previously unreleased studio recordings from 1970, most taken from the sessions for the ""New Morning"" and ""Self Portrait"" albums. Also included are the nine songs from the legendary session with George Harrison.

Maybe the notes will contain the real story behind the creation of the "Self Portrait" album.

[jazzbo]

I doubt that the notes will contain that, who knows, maybe. This is a re-packaging of the "limited to 100 copies" 1970 Copyright Set that came out last month. It's very attractively priced too, I'm looking forward to it.

[felser]

1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

I doubt that the notes will contain that, who knows, maybe. This is a re-packaging of the "limited to 100 copies" 1970 Copyright Set that came out last month. It's very attractively priced too, I'm looking forward to it.

$18 for 3cd set on Amazon, my pre-order is in, thanks for the heads-up!   I think "self-portrait" was a continuation of Dylan's effort to de-mythologize himself and be able to set a new path.  "Nashville Skyline" and the last two cuts of "John Wesley Harding" I see the same way. The rest of  "John Wesley Harding" is something altogether different in my eyes, due to the lyrical content, and I consider the first 10 songs on it to be his lyrical masterpiece and find it to be fulfilling in its spiritual journey in a way the "Christian" trilogy of a decade later is not.

[jazzbo]

I share your appreciation of "John Wesley Harding." That release has grown in stature in my estimation over the decades. And I have to say the stereo and mono Mobile Fidelity SACDs sound fantastic.

[teff.grain]

Infidels and Empire Burlesque..., unexpected that Sly & Robbie, Mark Knopfler would sound so good backing Dylan. Great records.

[mjzee]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9393159/Music-executive-friend-Bob-Dylan-Sally-Grossman-dies-aged-81.html?fbclid=IwAR0_6N2qsVqgT-0BYJe3wjPR6zeWcHXIoLOquXUebR4wtaxKhGnDWapU4eg

Friend of Bob Dylan, Sally Grossman, who appeared on his album cover and was at the center of enduring rock mystery over singer's motorbike crash, dies aged 81

• Music executive Sally Grossman, a close friend of Bob Dylan, died aged 81
• She was the wife of Dylan's manager and folk music kingpin Albert Grossman 
• Sally appears on the cover of Dylan's 1965 album Bringing It All Back Home 
• She was there the day Dylan had his mysterious 1966 motorbike crash

[mjzee]

Some thoughts after listening to the 3-disc "1970": It's fun and listenable.  George Harrison is a marginal presence at best (I had to check the notes to see which tracks he's on).   It's fascinating to hear Dylan manipulate his voice within the same session to produce his "Nashville Skyline," "Self Portrait" or "New Morning" voice.  He's working through the folk tradition, perhaps to touch base with his roots, similar to "Good As I Been To You" and "World Gone Wrong", but his voice is so much better here.  It's lovely to relive the vibe of "New Morning," which I loved at the time (and so much of a relief after "Self Portrait").  

Some thoughts as to why "Self Portrait" was so poorly received:

First, because there was so little original material.  It wasn't a common thing for rock performers, especially after they've hit big, to go back and perform traditional material.  For a performer as personal as Dylan, it was jarring to hear impersonal renditions of songs we commonly knew elsewhere.  Which was why "New Morning" was such a relief: it was an album of original Dylan songs, sung passionately, and with competent musicians playing listenable arrangements.  I think the review in Rolling Stone began "Dylan is back."  And indeed he was, and indeed he had gone away in the interim.

Second, because so much of "Self Portrait" was borderline unlistenable.  I cringe when recalling the performance of "The Boxer."  Songs such as "Early Mornin' Rain" or "Gotta Travel On" could have been good, but were sung indifferently and dispassionately.  Others, such as "Days of 49" had flubs and flaws, and needed more takes.  The Isle of Wight material, for those of us who had heard bootlegs of the 1966 tour, sounded wan and bizarre; we knew he was capable of better.  I understand that Bob Johnston was in a difficult position, but he should have put his foot down and told Dylan this stuff was not suitable for release.

Third, the strings and sweetening.  This helpful page (http://bjorner.com/DSN01790 1970.htm#DSN01790) implies that Dylan was not present for the 8 overdub sessions (March 11 - May 3).  Perhaps the release of "Another Self Portrait," which contained non-overdubbed versions of the "Self Portrait" material, was meant to imply that Dylan does not claim the overdubs as his own work.  But still, it couldn't have been done without his awareness and approval.  It was the strings and syrupy background harmonies that, I believe, caused the most cognitive dissonance among his rock fans.  It was a cultural demarcation: we (hippies) don't produce music that sounds like that.  It's not our culture, it's not reflective of our lifestyles and desires.  It was Richard Nixon, it wasn't George McGovern.  It's a shame that the reaction was so tribal, but you can't ignore what your audience wants.

So, a final thought: Dylan/Dylan's people/Columbia have tried to make the case that there is no real delineation between "Self Portrait" and "New Morning" - that they were conceived-of as a piece, two sides of the same coin, and it hardly mattered to which album the songs were apportioned.  To my mind, this is obviously not true.  Looking at Dylan's recording activity in 1969 and 1970 (as seen on the Bjorner web pages), it's clear that "Self Portrait" was a discrete project, with Dylan covering other people's material.  Sessions for "Self Portrait" began in April 1969, and it was only in March 1970 that Dylan rehearsed some "New Morning" songs ("Went To See The Gypsy" and "Time Passes Slowly").  I think the three key dates to ponder are April 3 (the last "Self Portrait" overdub session), May 1 (the first "New Morning" session), and June 8 (the release date of "Self Portrait").  Surely, acetates of "Self Portrait" were being passed around Columbia by late April.  Columbia execs probably heard them and told Dylan he was in danger of killing his career, and that he had very little time to correct course.  So (IMHO), rather than "Self Portrait" and "New Morning" being of a piece, "New Morning" was hastily executed as an antidote to "Self Portrait."  The final "New Morning" session was on August 12, and the album was released on October 21, in time for Christmas gift giving.

[felser]

Great thoughts, thanks.  I'm with you on all of them.  "Self Portrait" did inspire/outrage Greil Marcus to write my favorite record review of all time in Rolling Stone. 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/self-portrait-107056/

 I've always found "New Morning" to be charming, in ways that "Nashville Skyline" isn't, where Dylan no longer needs to deconstruct himself and can just settle in without dealing with unreasonable expectations from his audience.  No one could follow up Bringing It All Back Home/Highway 61 Revisited/Blonde on Blonde/John Wesley Harding, even Dylan himself, and clearly he chose to not even try to do so.  I don't blame him, but that doesn't mean I have to listen to Nashville Skyline/Self Portrait.

[mjzee]

I remember the Greil Marcus review.  I read it when it came out, and I still think about it from time to time, especially the anecdote about Max Kaminsky.  Where I differ with Marcus is I think, at this remove, it's obvious there was a concept behind "Self Portrait," including the sweetening and background vocals.  I had hoped that Dylan and/or his liner notes writers would honestly discuss the creation of the album, and the way they reassessed it after its release.  "Another Self Portrait" and "1970" barely touch on that, instead trying to persuade that these sessions were really just a folk song revival.  I think there's a fascinating story waiting to be told about the intentions behind "Self Portrait," and by extension, the cultural nerve it touched.  One would think, now that Dylan is 80 and released his Sinatra albums (not to mention "Christmas In The Heart"), that he could finally fess up.

[jazzbo]

Nice thoughts. I'm different though, Self Portrait was the first Dylan release I bought when it came out and I have a great sentimental feeling about it, I like it and all its trimmings. Nashville Syline. . . not so much.

[felser]

14 hours ago, jazzbo said:

Nice thoughts. I'm different though, Self Portrait was the first Dylan release I bought when it came out and I have a great sentimental feeling about it, I like it and all its trimmings. Nashville Syline. . . not so much.

Lon, what are your thoughts on New Morning?

[medjuck]

15 hours ago, jazzbo said:

Nice thoughts. I'm different though, Self Portrait was the first Dylan release I bought when it came out and I have a great sentimental feeling about it, I like it and all its trimmings. Nashville Syline. . . not so much.

I make fun of myself by pointing out It was the first Dylan record I bought .    I thought I was too hip to buy rock and roll or folk--  only jazz Lps for me.   Not sure why I bought it but I liked it.  Most of the Dylan Heads I knew didn't.  (I knew several people who had been folkies and only got into rock when Dylan went electric. )   I  bought every Dylan after that as soon as they came out until Slow Train.  Blood on the Tracks really sealed the deal for me.  I think the most underrated record is Street Legal. 

[jazzbo]

1 hour ago, felser said:

Lon, what are your thoughts on New Morning?

I like it a lot. The "1970" set has some interesting variants in it.

40 minutes ago, medjuck said:

I make fun of myself by pointing out It was the first Dylan record I bought .    I thought I was too hip to buy rock and roll or folk--  only jazz Lps for me.   Not sure why I bought it but I liked it.  Most of the Dylan Heads I knew didn't.  (I knew several people who had been folkies and only got into rock when Dylan went electric. )   I  bought every Dylan after that as soon as they came out until Slow Train.  Blood on the Tracks really sealed the deal for me.  I think the most underrated record is Street Legal. 

I bought Dylan up through the live stuff with the Band and a few boots and then went totally back into jazz only for the longest time. . . rediscovering Bob with the Bootleg Series and have since gotten all the official releases. He fascinates the hell out of me.

[felser]

10 hours ago, jazzbo said:

He fascinates the hell out of me.

Me too, even the albums I dislike are really interesting in context of the journey and the man.

[JSngry]

I felt the same way about the Huxtable family.

[mjzee]

Happy 80th birthday, Bob.