About Criterion's DVD

[Van Basten II]

Yeah they have a way of making theur products glamorous, a little bit like Mosaic does with jazz nusic, most of the movies done are generally important and grounbreaking stuff.

But overall don't you think overall that they are overpriced for what they really offer.

Any comments ?

[J Larsen]

  Van Basten II said:

Yeah they have a way of making theur products glamorous, a little bit like Mosaic does with jazz nusic, most of the movies done are generally important and grounbreaking stuff.

But overall don't you think overall that they are overpriced for what they really offer.

Any comments ?

Overpriced and overrated are two different things. I can't imagine anyone saying that their product is overrated - every Criterion I've seen (especially the recent ones) have had stunning video and audio quality, especially given the source they had to work with. Just as one of a multitude of possible examples, if you get a chance compare the older edition of Nights of Cabria to the Criterion.

Now on the pricing, they are obviously spendy. But it is unbelievably expensive to restore a feature length film (I've been told around $1 million), and they are restoring farily niche market films. I think it is pretty clear that their business plan to to achieve a very modest return, primarily off sales to video stores. I don't think they could put out the quality product they do without charging $30 -$40 a movie, I don't think consumer sales are a big part of their business model, and I think if they were to focus on consumer sales they would fail (or at least not be able to continue they way they have in the past).

[Stefan Wood]

No, they are not overpriced. For the research, restoration and other extras they provide it is worth the extra money. Who else will reissue the films that they are releasing?

[ejp626]

I do generally prefer to rent rather than buy them (and the Chicago Public Library has been very good about stocking nearly every one of their in-print titles). But some of the multi-disc sets, particularly when there are great bonus features and long essays in the booklets, are definitely worth it. I'm thinking in particular of Brazil, Naked Lunch, Short Cuts, and the re-issued Playtime.

[J Larsen]

Also noteworthy is Criterion's policy of never letting anything go OOP, no matter how poorly it is selling. The only exception is when they lose the rights to a title, and this has only happened in a handful of cases.

[ejp626]

The other question is what company would fill this niche if they weren't around. I suppose someone would eventually acquire the rights to Bergman, Kurosawa, Fellini and a few others. But Powell & Pressburger, Tati, Naruse, etc., etc.? The demand for these films in the US is not so huge, and I think it is great they are around -- even if I don't buy that many from them.

[Claude]

I think the Criterion DVDs are overpriced, since they haven't followed the general downward trend of DVD prices.

During the time when new regular DVD releases were priced $20-25 (list price), $40 for a Criterion DVDs was ok. But now, many DVDs are released for less than $15, so the Criterion price difference has become very high.

I don't judge the work involved, but only the market situation.

[J Larsen]

  Claude said:

I think the Criterion DVDs are overpriced, since they haven't followed the general downward trend of DVD prices.

During the time when new regular DVD releases were priced $20-25 (list price), $40 for a Criterion DVDs was ok. But now, many DVDs are released for less than $15, so the Criterion price difference has become very high.

I don't judge the work involved, but only the market situation.

Those $15 dvds don't have to price in the cost of restoration. Criterion's primary market is video rental stores.

Criterion on the subject of their pricing:

  Quote

Why do Criterion DVDs often cost more than other DVDs?

Criterion DVDs generally retail for about $10 more than average, and we make every effort to make those extra dollars count. We've made a commitment to presenting each film looking the best it can, and wherever possible, we are scouring the world's archives for additional materials that will elucidate the process or significance of the film. That work is extremely complicated and expensive, especially when the films are not all located in a single vault (as at a major studio) but scattered around the world. Our films are drawn from an array of film libraries in about two dozen countries so far. Many of the filmmakers whose work are included in the collection live thousands of miles away. Others are no longer living, making the archival project that much more difficult. And, especially with the older films, the process of making a master -- first finding the best available film elements, making a high-quality transfer, and then rolling frame-by-frame through the picture and sound fixing scratches, tears and dirt, as well as audio pops, crackle, clicks and hiss -- requires the use of very expensive equipment and personnel for long periods of time.

We appreciate the support people show when they pay a little more for our discs, because that is what makes it possible for us to keep striving to meet the standards of our most demanding and well-informed customers.

Personally, I don't understand the need to own many films on DVD (how many times are you going to watch the same movie???), and am happy that I can rent excellent quality DVDs of hundreds of great movies thanks to Criterion's work. Especially given the highly limited market for their films, their pricing simply seems realistic to me.

Edited December 25, 2006 by J Larsen

[Adam]

Well, now Criterion is starting a "budget" line - sets of overlooked films by great directors (starting with early Bergman, pre "Seventh Seal" without the extras, and charging about $15 per disc.

Here's their announcement, in their blog.

http://www.criterionco.com/blog/2006_12_01...614051941207207

Personally, witha few exceptions, I buy DVDs only with special features or box sets. Single disc movie only I can rent. Criterions are probably half of what I own. Throw in the Werner Herzog boxes from Anchor Bay and from his website, some Kino boxes, Unseen Cinema, Noir boxes, and some music, and that almost covers it. Of course, I almost never get around to watching any of them.

Edited December 25, 2006 by Adam

[Stefan Wood]

Eclipse seems like a newer incarnation of the HVe (Home Vision entertainment) dvd line that had stopped a year ago.

[Jazzmoose]

  Adam said:

Of course, I almost never get around to watching any of them.

There's life for ya...

[jazzbo]

Own lots of dvds now. . . not one Criterion. My man Shawn raves about them though, and he knows whereof he raveth cinematically speaking. Qualiyt. . . costs.

[gslade]

I have 27 Criterions but these are films I will watch again

not many people are like that but to each his/her own

great company but they are expensive

I would recommend renting the DVD's

and only buying if one loves the film

[Quincy]

I'll just say that as they've managed to stay in business, they must know what they're doing. Yes they're expensive, but as others have noted, there's a great deal of work involved with many of the releases. It's good that they are able to release some more commercial releases which undoubtedly help fund some of the more "artistic" films.

[sal]

Along with the downward trend in DVD prices has come a downward trend in bonus materials, booklets and packaging. Criterions are pricey, but worth it IMO.

Plus, with these Borders coupons going around, there's no need to pay more than $20-$25 per movie if you have access to a Borders bookstore.

[BruceH]

For the most part, I say thank God for Criterion. They've done some great work and I hope they'll keep on doing it.

[Don Brown]

I really don't understand why anyone is concerned about paying a little more for quality. Criterion, in my opinion, is in the same position as Mosaic Records. Both companies issue quality material for small but discerning audiences. This material has to be licensed, which does not come cheap, experts have to be hired to write notes, and technicians found to restore or remaster the discs or films. I think the results are well worth the higher cost.

[etherbored]

the real gem in this thread (yes, criterions are pricey - yes, they are worth it) is finding stefan's blog... *excellent* work, sir.

check it out!

-e-

[Soulstation1]

anyone watch this DVD?

[Adam]

  Soulstation1 said:

anyone watch this DVD?

i own the DVD but haven't watched it. Crazy, i know, but that;'s why I'm trying a self-imposed ban on the purchase of DVDs.

But I was at Cinephile today in West Los Angeles and saw a few DVDs from a line akin to Criterion - the Eureka/Masters of Cinema line from England. Europe region encoded, but the full nice treatment. they just came out with a Naruse box set with 3 films and a book that I just know I will get someday.

And the Criterion Rohmer box, also with a book!

[Nate Dorward]

Hey, that's great to hear, even if those aren't quite the Naruse films I most want on DVD (I hope vol 2 might find room for the astonishing Yearning, Ginza Cosmetics, Wife Be Like a Rose or Floating Clouds.....). I know Repast is considered one of his best but somehow it didn't click with me as much as those ones. On the other hand When a Woman Ascends the Stairs is stunning & I look forward to that one a lot. I still can't figure out why Naruse's films have been so hard to get hold of for half a century.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Nate Dorward

[ejp626]

  Adam said:

came out with a Naruse box set with 3 films and a book that I just know I will get someday.

I'm trying to rent the Naruse box, though the UK equivalent of Netflix says there is a long wait.

  Adam said:

And the Criterion Rohmer box, also with a book!

I'm a little torn over the Rohmer box. I have four or maybe even five of the films already, but I imagine that the mastering is a lot better and the bonus features are more extensive, so maybe eventually. There are two Rohmer sets available in the UK. One contains the entire "Comedies and Proverbes" series, plus Love in the Afternoon (from Six Moral Tales) and The Marquise of O. I'm not sure about this, for the same reason, that I have four already. What I am more likely to buy is Tales of the Four Seasons in a box set. I think one or two of these is not available in Region 1, but I could be wrong.

[Stefan Wood]

I picked up the Naruse box from amazon uk. The remastering is excellent -- real solid black and white photography. The booklet is thick and filled with essays on the director and the films. Each one has audio commentary, but not much else in terms of dvd extras. Repast is very good -- his style reminds me of Ozu. A worthwhile purchase! EUREKA is also planning on issuing 7 Mizoguchi films this coming year, which is great.

[J Larsen]

  Soulstation1 said:

anyone watch this DVD?

FYI, all the Criterion Hitchcock's are OOP and fetching big bucks on ebay.

[sal]

I believe "The 39 Steps" and "The Lady Vanishes" have come back into print recently.