Pre 1950 West Coast Jazz records

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

i just was looking at jazzdisco's Sonny Criss page and was thinkin, damn- i need more pre 1950 West coast jazz!!!! Are there any interesting cds in print where you can hear this stuff, not just sonny but anyone--- i could go just buy a few tracks on the single 'proper' sonny criss comp. , but id rather get massive amts. of it. (PS I ALREDY HAVE THEIR DEX AND WARDELL BOXES SO THAT I ALREADY HAVE)- but what about other good pre 1950 LA based West Coast Jazz? Like recently someone posted a REALLY cool pic of like an early ass Teddy Edwards 10". well cds people cds what is available!

[Niko]

i just was looking at jazzdisco's Sonny Criss page and was thinkin, damn- i need more pre 1950 West coast jazz!!!! Are there any interesting cds in print where you can hear this stuff, not just sonny but anyone--- i could go just buy a few tracks on the single 'proper' sonny criss comp. , but id rather get massive amts. of it. (PS I ALREDY HAVE THEIR DEX AND WARDELL BOXES SO THAT I ALREADY HAVE)- but what about other good pre 1950 LA based West Coast Jazz? Like recently someone posted a REALLY cool pic of like an early ass Teddy Edwards 10". well cds people cds what is available!

i got a sampler called "black california. Central Avenue 1945-1950 " from sagajazz (www.sagajazz.com not available in the us it seems from looking in amazon.com) there are many great tracks on it like early mingus, roy porter big band, howard mcghee with teddy edwards, early gerald wilson, that first harold land session with froebel brigham... so i am definitely interested in recommendations as well...!

[Big Beat Steve]

According to the tracklist, the Sagajaz "Black California" compilation sounds like it draws a lot on the DIAL catalog from the 40s, and a lot of it is quite well-known as the tracks have been reissued a zillion times. Anybody who is into this music to some extent will probably have at least half of it already. Also, some of the music on this such as the Johnny Otis and Big Jay McNeely tracks, however fascinating they are, would be better at home on one of their R&B compilations, not on a Modern Jazz collection.

Instead, I'd suggest searching for the two BLACK CALIFORNIA two-LP sets issued by SAVOY in the 80s (Vol. 2 was definitely available on CD but I am not sure about Vol. 1). Great stuff from the Savoy catalog of the 40s, including the Roy Porter big band tracks.

These Roy Porter tracks have also been reissued on a CD with Teddy Edwards tracks from the 40s on the Blue Moon label.

Edited December 18, 2006 by Big Beat Steve

[jazzbo]

You're right, Volume 1 of the Black Jazz Savoy two lp sets did not come out on cd.

Chewy, seek out all you can of the Wardell Gray sides. . . the Dexter sides. . . (If you don't have the Atlantic/Savoy three cd set get it), the Alladiin and Philo recordings of Lester Young, etc. The Central Avenue Sounds box set is a good one, yes there's lots of R&B in there but the lines weren't so finely drawn then, lots of crossover going on. And get the Uptown Charles Mingus disc--that's invaluable.

[king ubu]

Lon, what's that 3CD set? By Dexter? Or a compilation?

chewy, do get this one if you don't have it, it's glorious:

[king ubu]

This here's a great compilation of early Teddy:

Definitely worth looking for (although again, some of it has been reissued over and over, so you might have half of it already).

[JohnS]

You can't go far wrong with these recommendations.

[AllenLowe]

don't forget Kid Ory's Sunshine recordings - 1922 - also Mutt Carey, Jimmy Noone and other New Orleans guys were recording there - also a fair amount of Western Swing, as a result of the migration of country players -

Edited December 18, 2006 by AllenLowe

[brownie]

Get that one, if you don't have it yet!

Smashing 3CD set!

Another recommendation for the Sagajazz 'Black California' CD. It should be available - at reasonable price - from Caiman via Amazon.

You can check their site: http://www.sagajazz.com/

It's in their Modern Jazz series.

Sagajazz (produced by the people that gave us the now OOP Masters of Jazz CD discs.

Their output in that series has sides from Dial, Savoy, Aladdin, Black & White, etc...

You can also explore the early Dave Brubeck music!

[BeBop]

I can only echo all those Wardell recommendations. And Teddy.

I also really like the Central Avenue Sounds box (and book). Not all jazz, and not all the era in which you're interested, but nice stuff and good presentation.

[jazzbo]

Lon, what's that 3CD set? By Dexter? Or a compilation?

chewy, do get this one if you don't have it, it's glorious:

This is what I'm talkin' about:

[John L]

In addition to what has been suggested, look for the early Dodo Marmarosa sides, including the ones with Lucky Thompson. The early Howard McGhee sessions give you a classic glimpse of West Coast bebop in embryo.

Get all the Sonny Criss and Teddy Edwards that you can from any era.

There was a lot of creativity in rhythm and blues on the West Coast in the late 40s that had jazzy roots: Illinois Jacquet, Roy Milton, Johnny Otis, the Liggins brothers, Amos Milburn, Lowell Fulson, Pee Wee Crayton. You need to feel that to understand the whole vibe that penetrated jazz on Central Avenue back then.

You must already have the LA 1945 Slim Gaillard session with Bird, Diz, and McVootie. Right?

Edited December 18, 2006 by John L

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

Ooooooo I WANT THAT STEADY W/ TEDDY. I ALSO ONLY HAVE ONE (1) OF HIS LATER CONTEMPORARY LPS AS A LEADER. I WANT THAT ONE w/ WIG ON ORGAN: HEART AND SOUL. AND ALL THE OTHERS. THE ONLY ONE I HAVE IS TOGETHER AGAIN w/ HOWARD MCGHEE

[Clunky]

Also Lucky Thompson _ Smooth Sailing - Indigo- mainly has LA based recordings with Dodo et al.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

i might just get the sonny criss anyways- 1/2 the comp. is the bird inglewood date i already have though- but yea have all the charles brown and amos milburns on original Alladin 78's so i dont need those

[king ubu]

Thanks for clarifying about that 3CD set - looks tasty! I have some of this on compilations (Dexter's Properbox, I think), but not nearly all of it!

[jazzbo]

It's almost as awesome as sharks with friggin' "laser" beams mounted on their heads!

[Big Beat Steve]

A question about that BOPLAND 3-CD set with the Elks Club concert of 1947:

What exactly does this set contain?

Is this the stuff that's been out on those red BOP! 78s and has been known under the "Bopland Boys" tag and was reissued more recently on various Savoy 2-LP sets, i.e. the following tracks:

Disorder at the Border/Cheroket/Byas-A-Drink/The Hunt (also known variously under other titles such as Bopera/Rocks'n'Shoals etc.)

as well as

Backbreaker/Blow Blow Blow/Unfinished Bopera ?

Is there anything else on this set that's NEVER seen the light of a release before?

Just wondering because in the long run it's frustrating how much material you keep doubling and tripling up ...

Edited December 20, 2006 by Big Beat Steve

[brownie]

Big Beat Steve, most of the music in that Bopland 3CD set has already been issued!

Bopland 3CD set

The unissued music includes:

- a short 'Body and Soul' by Al Killian

- the Red Callender section from 'Bop After Hours'

- part of Wild Bill Moore's 'Perdido', plus 'Merry Go Round Blues' and 'Blowin' for Bass' by Bill Moore,

and two short tracks by (probably) the Howard McGhee Orchestra.

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks Brownie!

So I wasn't far off the mark ...

The "new" tracks would be interesting to listen to but buying a 3-CD set just for those few tracks and ending up with another CD set where you already have 75% of the music (or more)?

I'd do that if it was a Membran CD set at the typical Membran prices (4 CD's for 9.99 euros) but that's about the limit.

By the way, I wonder if one of the Wild Bill Morre isn't in fact the one issued as "Unfinished Bopera" (Bop 26).

[brownie]

By the way, I wonder if one of the Wild Bill Morre isn't in fact the one issued as "Unfinished Bopera" (Bop 26).

The liner notes mention Bop 26 as an original 78RPM issue for the Moore's 'What is This Thing Called For?' track.

On the 3CD set (as on the Savoy SLJ2242 vinyl), the track is 13m35s!

[Big Beat Steve]

That probably explains why they called the 78 rpm release "Unfinished Bopera" (or so the Jepsen discography says; Jepsen lists "What is this thing called love" as a separate title with a Savoy LP release only; this was some 20 years before SJL 2242). I happen to have that 78 and the "Unfinished Bopera" takes up one side only, but I admit I haven't made an aural comparison with SJL 2242. Thanks for pointing this out!

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

well i got the mcghee comp today on topaz UK jazz label-- has the bean machine tracks on asch and some other random cuts but i got it for the 2 dial sessions- one w/ teddy and another horn player, and other, (4 cuts total) just w/ teddy and then dodo on piano. thats the reason i got it.

BUT WHAT THE HELLS UP WITH THAT "RPM" 10 incher u posted one of u guys posted- Teddy quartet-- where in the holy hell can i get a copy of that on cd!