sal Posted December 27, 2006 Report Posted December 27, 2006 -- side by side w/the just released Nas Hip Hop Is Dead (the album, which is fucking masterful, like seriously*...). i love the South but... Queens kills it... (& naw, it ain't really dead). Someone else said this was a good one. Might have to check it out....haven't bought a Nas album in 10 years. Quote
JSngry Posted December 27, 2006 Report Posted December 27, 2006 Even so, what's the fucking rhetoric? Is he going to take SPECIFIC rappers to task over SPECIFIC affronts to his oh-so-sophisticated understanding of Negritude? now i ain't gonna front mine but this reactionary horseshit sure seems like more inane Crouch-ism (minus the criticisism of faux radicals-- can we assume Winston's been deep in a Last Poet's phase? riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight) to me. not at all calling out bruthas Laz & Tex but I defy everyone with an interest in this to play it-- whatever "it" is-- side by side w/the just released Nas Hip Hop Is Dead (the album, which is fucking masterful, like seriously*...). i love the South but... Queens kills it... (& naw, it ain't really dead). peace! c * listen to "Black Republican," the duo w/Jay-Z for a hint towards what Marsalis shoulda bucked up to decades ago. Dude, there was a little bit of tongue in cheek going on. I mean, I love how wynton "justifies" his quasi-rapping by saying that it was a part of his growing up in New Orleans... Looks like the storyline of the second half of this cat's life is going to be that of a man trying to get back in touch with shit he tried to kill for the first half of it. Only now, it's "legitimate" because he says so, and because he's going to use it to move ahead. Well, ok, how do you move "the music" ahead when it's already light years ahead of you? It reminds me of a man being dragged by a galloping horse thinking that the reason the horse is moving so fast is because it's being pushed by the man being dragged, not because the poor horse is trying to shed that dead weight in as expedient a way as possible. Pitiful. Quote
Kalo Posted December 27, 2006 Report Posted December 27, 2006 re: Jazz Curators I sincerely hope that is a joke. I thought it was funny. Let's hope you're right... Yes, it was a joke... But no laughing matter. Quote
montg Posted December 29, 2006 Report Posted December 29, 2006 WM is offering a free album on his website beginning Jan 1. web only Quote
Alexander Posted December 29, 2006 Report Posted December 29, 2006 Even so, what's the fucking rhetoric? Is he going to take SPECIFIC rappers to task over SPECIFIC affronts to his oh-so-sophisticated understanding of Negritude? now i ain't gonna front mine but this reactionary horseshit sure seems like more inane Crouch-ism (minus the criticisism of faux radicals-- can we assume Winston's been deep in a Last Poet's phase? riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight) to me. not at all calling out bruthas Laz & Tex but I defy everyone with an interest in this to play it-- whatever "it" is-- side by side w/the just released Nas Hip Hop Is Dead (the album, which is fucking masterful, like seriously*...). i love the South but... Queens kills it... (& naw, it ain't really dead). peace! c * listen to "Black Republican," the duo w/Jay-Z for a hint towards what Marsalis shoulda bucked up to decades ago. You got that one too, huh? Jeez, and I'm so LAME. You don't want to admit that you listen to the same shit as a fossil like ME. Quote
JSngry Posted December 29, 2006 Report Posted December 29, 2006 i think i understood that, Tex-- you were being wry... you ever get into a solo or improv & yr out there... yr out there... yr out there... & then yr like... uh? what the fuck am i doing HERE? Hell, that happens to me damn near every time I leave the house to go to work... Got a copy of the new Nas from my son, btw, and spun it all last night. Good, interesting stuff, and lyrically, a lot of it it sounds like the 21st Century Jazz thread applied to hip-hop. BTW - the JB sample you referenced in another thread is from "Get Up, Get Into It And Get Involved". A tad less obvious, and more sublime for me, was the "After The Dance" sample on one tune (just had a burn, so I can't say which one. Nice! But yeah, if hip-hop is dead, where does that leave Wynton's version of jazz? Post-dead? Never alive in the first place? Alive, but in a world other than this one? All of the above? Quote
Simon Weil Posted December 31, 2006 Author Report Posted December 31, 2006 In the spirit of idiot New Year's Resolutions, I suggest applying Ayleresque soloing to rap. Would probably be the most hated possible musical fusion for Wynton. Happy New Year to the Lincoln Center. Simon Weil Quote
7/4 Posted December 31, 2006 Report Posted December 31, 2006 In the spirit of idiot New Year's Resolutions, I suggest applying Ayleresque soloing to rap. Would probably be the most hated possible musical fusion for Wynton. Happy New Year to the Lincoln Center. Simon Weil Please let it happen! Quote
Dr. Rat Posted December 31, 2006 Report Posted December 31, 2006 Time has shown shown that the extreme opinions about him are off base. He's neither the Savior of jazz nor the devil incarnate. The former should be obvious by now, but the latter depends on how you feel about how he, through words & deeds alike, reshaped the professional landscape of the music, both directly & through "ripple effect". We've had roughly a quarter-century of unnecessary & irrelevant debates about what is/isn't "acceptable" to be considered jazz, who is or isn't playing "real" jazz, and just all kinds of bullshit in general that has resulted in a professional environment that is a helluva lot more fractured, factionalized, and tunnel-visioned than it was that quarter-centruy ago. We've also seen the evolution of the "image" of jazz evolve from that of a music distinguished by a slightly "dangerous" viscerality into that of a grand cultural status symbol that is to be revered for merely existing instead of earning its keep by delivering a living & breathing immediate relevancy that also has the depth to stick around over time. Any music suffers when its sudience expects to be readily & immeditely comforted by the mere presence of a historical legacy rather than confronted & challenged (at some level, not necessarily "stylistically, but emotionally) contemporary challenge. Will the music recover? Well, the mummies & necrophilliacs already have their museum, so they're set for "life". But the rest of us might as well get on with the business of making & developing music that for any number of reasons will never be accepted as "jazz" in that museum. All we run the risk of is not being relevant to the people who go to the museum to fornicate with the undead. That, and not getting their money and business networks. Oh well. Sounds like a fair deal to me. I think this is a pretty fair assessment of what has happened to jazz: Jazz entering the arts center, just as the arts center dies; kind of like blacks inheriting the urban political machine just as it dies. In both cases clever people realized that this was something you never wanted to win. BUT, it seems to me that Marsalis was the spokesperson for this development, not the primum mobile, and that he's more a symbol of it than a proper object of blame. The discussion gets more interesting if you widen the historical focus a bit. Long before Marsalis, some in jazz were making claims not to be show biz, not to be jazz, not to owe the audience a damn thing, to be a self-justifying ARTFORM in letters three feet high and if you didn't like it you were nothing but a philsitine/xenophobe/cryptoracist/self-hater/undersexed yadda yadda yadda. THIS kind of rhetoric was the first step toward the Museum door. Marsalis and the institutionalized jazzartist were more or less the logical next stage when people stopped buying the romantic-artist/freak/social outcast line. No more than a plain realization (and along with it professionalization) of the fact that jazz, to a large extent, had already entered the academy. You don't get university gigs when people think you are visceral. You get those when they think you are a curator or a museum piece yourself. And you gotta do something to make them think that. Quote
montg Posted March 8, 2007 Report Posted March 8, 2007 Wynton's latest was released this week. from the plantation to the penitentiary You can hear the entire album by clicking on the e-card link. Wynton kind of raps on the last track. Quote
Shrdlu Posted March 8, 2007 Report Posted March 8, 2007 On Wynton, I think .... Naw, never mind! Quote
Shrdlu Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 You're called Elis and you ask who's on piano? (Hope you get that!) Quote
bertrand Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 His latest droppings earn him a whopping one star in the latest downbeat. Apparently the lyrics are wretched. Bertrand. Quote
Randy Twizzle Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 who is on piano? Someone named Dan Nimmer. I know this because I heard a cut from Nimmer's new album on XM radio's "Real Jazz" channel today and since the name was unfamiliar to me, I looked him up on AMG and saw that his only other listed credit was on Wynton's new CD. It's really no surprise, since when an unfamiliar name pops up on "Real Jazz" it usually turns out to be someone associated with Wynton and/or the LCJO. Quote
Joe G Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Wynton's latest was released this week. from the plantation to the penitentiary You can hear the entire album by clicking on the e-card link. Wynton kind of raps on the last track. Rough sledding. Quote
BruceH Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 I saw him on The Daily Show the other night. I was kind of half-asleep at the time, though. Quote
RDK Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Sheesh. Didn't he (or Blue Note for that matter) learn anything from Osby? Quote
donald byrd 4 EVA Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 i dont really care much for his music. kindof boring. i feel like he gets sympathy votes because hes a spokesman for jazz. i suggest listening to cannonball adderley's country preacher instead. Quote
JSngry Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Ok, I listened to samples of all the clips. Good enough, but, uh....Max & Abbey done been there, done that, timelier, angrier, and better. At this point in the real world, this is truly harmless music. Certainly not what he had in mind, I'm sure, but damn... I feel sorry for the guy at this point. I really do. Quote
Lazaro Vega Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Sequed some of this with John Carter's "Castles of Ghana." Quote
Larry Kart Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Sequed some of this with John Carter's "Castles of Ghana." That's probably the best, maybe the only, way to show up Wynton's stuff for what it is. Quote
alppila Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 His solo on Impaler, the first track on Citizen Tain, fucking kills. Quote
Elissa Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 You're called Elis and you ask who's on piano? (Hope you get that!) Elis as in Regina, not Ellis, silly goose man. I only asked though because I love pianist Eric Lewis, who played with Wynton for a spell. Clearly that's not him playing on the new album, though. Quote
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