hard drive storage

[Bright Moments]

my beloved bought a 160 gig external hard drive for me - her theory being "if you store your cd's on the hard drive think of all the shelf space we can have?"

i of course am thinking - is this a viable way to back up my mosaics, etc. to preserve the music from cd degradation/scratches/damage which will surely occur as time passes?

[gslade]

My collection has grown about 700 CD's

since I bought a 120g external

I am now forced to remove some and archive on DVD

but a new drive is in the planning (500g)

The better half gave up the shearch

for shelf space long ago

[Dave Garrett]

my beloved bought a 160 gig external hard drive for me - her theory being "if you store your cd's on the hard drive think of all the shelf space we can have?"

i of course am thinking - is this a viable way to back up my mosaics, etc. to preserve the music from cd degradation/scratches/damage which will surely occur as time passes?

How many CDs do you have? 160GB isn't much space when it comes to storing uncompressed WAV files, and even if you use one of the lossless compression formats like FLAC, you're only going to gain probably a 30-40% reduction in file sizes. You don't even want to think about a lossy compression format like MP3, which you could conceivably cram a medium-sized CD collection onto a 160GB drive with, unless you're prepared to sacrifice a lot of sound quality.

The bigger issue is this: hard drives have a finite lifespan, and it's typically only a few years. You'd need to have two copies of everything backed up onto separate drives to be reasonably safe against failure.

CDs don't degrade or wear out if they're handled properly. Hard drives eventually fail even if they're properly cared for.

Of course, it sounds like you've got a bigger issue on your hands - if my wife were to bring this up, my counterargument would be "but that's what the shelf space is for".

[Bright Moments]

How many CDs do you have?

about 8500

[Quincy]

If you convert your discs to FLAC it could free up approximately 300 jewel cases, give or 50 or so. It depends on how much music is on those discs of course. If you were to put a lot of OJCs that don't have bonus tracks you could save even more shelf space. WinAmp, MacAmp and the like can play the FLAC files and you won't lose any fidelity, yet you save crucial space compared to WAV.

I'm assuming that you are keeping the discs and are merely looking to box them up and put them somewhere out of the way. The beauty of silver CDs is that you don't have to mess with disc drive tools to retrieve the information, or worry about the plug accidentally getting pulled on the drive and messing things up.

Picking the music to go on the drive is tricky. Do you pick mainly titles with ugly artwork & crappy liner notes? Or do you go with Mosaics, as some people play box sets more when it's all on a handy hard drive?

Edited December 15, 2006 by Quincy

[Soulstation1]

i bet after xmas they'll have better deals on HDs

i have a seagate 160 gigs (actually 150) and i know it ain't gonna be enough for my original plans

i got about 50 gigs of emusic downloads

[Jay]

Have you considered using Cadence Sleeves or plastic sleeves that will cut down on shelf space? They've really helped me, especially given the amount of review discs and others I have kicking around.

As for the hard drive question - I've been toying with getting a 500 gigger and a Squeezebox to stream my music, but the wife thinks I am nuts. If you need to, my advice would be to rip to a hard drive and store your CDs in case the hard drive fails. Do NOT get rid of your CDs (or give them to a nice board member or the Salvation Army if you are feeling charitable ).

[J Larsen]

Just a quick note on harddrive failure: It's often the read/write head in harddrives that fails; if this happens, you can get a tech person to recover the data (at non-neglible expense). When the disc fails it is almost always because the head has scraped against it, causing physical damage to the magnetic layer. In this case, too, it is normally possible to recover most of the data, though again it ain't cheap. I'm just writing this so that if you ever end up with a dead harddrive with really important data you know that all hope is not lost.

[John L]

I have a large CD collection (about 8000 discs) and have been living away from home. So I have ripped the vast majority of my collection to MP3s.

I don't use WAVE or Lossless since that would far exceed the capacity even of a 500 GB external hard drive. It would also make ripping time extremely long. I find the sound quality of my MP3s to be adequate, and I am keeping my CD collection at least until the next generations of technology will make ripping and storage in WAVE an easy option.

Yes, DO back up your MP3s on a second external hard drive. Not only do external hard drives fail, but they sometimes give no prior warning. If you have a large collection, it also makes sense to buy several iPods or other MP3 players. Why? The more music that you have loaded in MP3 players, the less often that you will be compelled to fire up your external hard drive in search of other music that you want to hear. That will increase the probability of a long life for the external hard drive. Too bad that there is no market for larger MP3 players that hold more music. I would certainly buy one.

[sheldonm]

I bought a My Book 500 gig for $229.00; not sure if it's the best deal or not......no problems to report!

m~

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Just a quick note on harddrive failure: It's often the read/write head in harddrives that fails; if this happens, you can get a tech person to recover the data (at non-neglible expense). When the disc fails it is almost always because the head has scraped against it, causing physical damage to the magnetic layer. In this case, too, it is normally possible to recover most of the data, though again it ain't cheap. I'm just writing this so that if you ever end up with a dead harddrive with really important data you know that all hope is not lost.

My son-in-law buggered both my hard drives at the same time (the second of which was my backup for all but the most volatile files) on my last computer. And, despite sending them to specialist recovery firms, at non-trivial expense, neither could be even slightly recovered.

So, everything you've ever believed about sons-in-law is true.

MG

[J Larsen]

What did he do? Put them next to a big magnet?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

What did he do? Put them next to a big magnet?

Don't ask me - he's a techy. He was trying to add a third drive at the time.

MG

[Bright Moments]

Have you considered using Cadence Sleeves or plastic sleeves that will cut down on shelf space?

thats what they are in now!

thanks everybody for the responses!

[rostasi]

This is a subject that's been very close to me for the past few months.

Making adjustments for the upcoming year, I've been asking friends

and online community geeks as well as reading articles in magazines

to try to pin down the best way for archiving.

Nearly all of these folks say that if you're serious about archiving,

then you must buy a second HD that becomes an exact copy of the first

and store it somewhere besides your own house - with a friend that you trust

or some area that you feel is secure. Friends who are composers or artists

are doing this with all of their years of hard work. They've convinced me with their earnestness.

...but the next decision was which harddrive.

I've learned in the past few months that even tho

many tech-based magazines rate LaCie products very high,

people who have actually used some of these large externals

have given them very bad ratings - usually due to files that later become corrupted.

I was reminded that magazine reviewers can't comment on long term use

which, I suppose, makes sense.

Sheldon's comment reflects what I've been hearing

from many folks - the My Book line has been great

for many users. You may want to check some of the comments on

Amazon or a tech review site. For this major archive undertaking that I'm

beginning in '07, I'm about 90% sure that I'm going with this line.

As for freeing up space - this is just me - but I'm really moving toward

HD only. Except for special packaging of an especially artistic kind,

I'm just fine with parting with this stuff. The fact that not only is all of this

such a huge, overbearing mess, but it really isn't fair to my sweetheart.

When we have to buy a separate bookshelf for her to have in her office

for the few books and DVDs that she enjoys while we're surrounded by

walls of my stuff, well... [Evan, you know!!]

Anyway, let us know what you come up with.

Rod

Edited December 19, 2006 by rostasi

[porcy62]

i of course am thinking - is this a viable way to back up my mosaics, etc. to preserve the music from cd degradation/scratches/damage which will surely occur as time passes?

Cd degradation/scratches/damage? I presumed they didn't suffer of such problems. Do you mean that they could have the very same problems of old records? Go back to past and buy yourself a TT.

[Bright Moments]

The fact that not only is all of this

such a huge, overbearing mess, but it really isn't fair to my sweetheart.

When we have to buy a separate bookshelf for her to have in her office

for the few books and DVDs that she enjoys while we're surrounded by

walls of my stuff, well... [Evan, you know!!]

Anyway, let us know what you come up with.

Rod

indeed i do rod!

BTW i already "upgraded" to the 500 gig my book!

[rostasi]

indeed i do rod!

BTW i already "upgraded" to the 500 gig my book!

Good (i hope... )

HDing everything coulda made it easier to find A.C. Myers too!

[Bright Moments]

indeed i do rod!

BTW i already "upgraded" to the 500 gig my book!

Good (i hope... )

HDing everything coulda made it easier to find A.C. Myers too!

but can you find me some terry pollard or gibbs' vibes on velvet!

[bolivarblues]

I have a 160 GB collection in my iTunes library. My entire collection is ripped to my hard drive as compressed, AAC files (encoded at 160 kbps) for every day use. I typically rip a new CD and never play it again, except for the occasion that I listen to CDs on my main stereo system in my living room (most listening is done on my computer in my bedroom). I use each file's "comments" tag to store information such as musicians involved in the session, recording location and date (usually copied and pasted from a discography, such as jazzdisco.org). I use the "grouping" field (who knows what it's really for) for record label, and of course other tags store composer, year, album title and artist. This system gives me an amazing amount of control over what I listen to. Using iTunes' "smart playlist," I can quickly create a custom playlist based on any of these fields, or practically any combination thereof. I can, for example, within seconds create a playlist of all recordings on the Blue Note label recorded between the years 1954-1952 with Horace Silver on piano playing Thelonious Monk compositions. Or I can listen randomly based on artist, year recorded, genre or even my whole libary. That kind of flexibility is basically impossible otherwise. It's totally revolutionized how I listen to music, and it protects my CD from scratches and such. Using my laptop and iTunes, I can wirelessly stream my library from my bedroom upstairs to my main home stereo downstairs. The only drawback is the fact that the files are compressed, but they sound fine to me for everyday use - I can always break out the actual disc for more critical listening. If I had an unlimited amount of hard drive space, I would solve this by encoding the files with the Apple Lossless codec, which takes approximately half as much hard drive space as a .wav or .aiff file, or about five times the space as a compressed MP3 or AAC file at 128 kbps.

Edited December 20, 2006 by Frankie Machine

[sidewinder]

400 gig is the size to go for - or more. They are selling them over here now for around the £100 mark. My first 400 gig drive is filling up so maybe I need another...

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

This is a subject that's been very close to me for the past few months.

Making adjustments for the upcoming year, I've been asking friends

and online community geeks as well as reading articles in magazines

to try to pin down the best way for archiving.

Nearly all of these folks say that if you're serious about archiving,

then you must buy a second HD that becomes an exact copy of the first

and store it somewhere besides your own house - with a friend that you trust

or some area that you feel is secure. Friends who are composers or artists

are doing this with all of their years of hard work. They've convinced me with their earnestness.

While I'm sure that's right in ideal terms, Rod, with a record collection that's a very awkward thing to arrange. If you're getting new recordings nearly every day, then you need quick and easy access to both hard drives. How you do this when you have to drive across town to get at your second copy isn't perfectly clear. Would you update both discs monthly or what?

MG

[John L]

This is a subject that's been very close to me for the past few months.

Making adjustments for the upcoming year, I've been asking friends

and online community geeks as well as reading articles in magazines

to try to pin down the best way for archiving.

Nearly all of these folks say that if you're serious about archiving,

then you must buy a second HD that becomes an exact copy of the first

and store it somewhere besides your own house - with a friend that you trust

or some area that you feel is secure. Friends who are composers or artists

are doing this with all of their years of hard work. They've convinced me with their earnestness.

While I'm sure that's right in ideal terms, Rod, with a record collection that's a very awkward thing to arrange. If you're getting new recordings nearly every day, then you need quick and easy access to both hard drives. How you do this when you have to drive across town to get at your second copy isn't perfectly clear. Would you update both discs monthly or what?

MG

MG: One external hard drive is a backup. So you don't need access to it every day. I only access my backup external hard drive once every two months or so. In the mean time, I keep backups of all new files on the internal hard drive of my computer. My backup hard drive is across the ocean. So I bring new files to the other side of the world on my PC. Works just fine. As I wrote earlier, part of the game is minimizing the use of external drives in order to prolong their life.

Edited December 20, 2006 by John L

[rostasi]

MG! Now, you know better...you have to have a very, very long FireWire cable - a few kilometers in length!

The storage, MG, is after you've filled it.

You buy two HDs and you hook them up to your computer so that

everytime that you add something to one drive

it is automatically copied to the other one.

It's called "RAID 1" and is simpler than it sounds.

You can buy, for instance, two medium sized drives - let's say, 160 GB -

and begin filling one up while

the other is simultaneously creating a copy.

At any time that you feel that you've got enough stuff on it/them,

you take your second drive and put it somewhere else

in safe storage where it's not used.

I suppose that you could rent a bank box to keep it instead of at a friend's house.

A composer friend in Munich has just finished archiving his complete output

in glorious 96/24-bit hi-def - over 750 GB of his compositions -

and took the second drive over to a friend's house for safekeeping.

If his drive at home goes wicky-wacky, he knows that his work is safe on another

and he can always transfer from that one to a new drive if he ever needs to.

Remember, even if you are in the middle of your archiving and one drive goes down,

you still have another one with all of your stuff on it - the chances of both drives failing

on their own at the same time is incredibly unlikely.

You're increasing your reliability exponentially over a single disk.

[rostasi]

Hitachi Introduces 1-Terabyte Hard Drive