Pablo Records

[JSngry]

Stumbled across this little piece o'party the other day:

AMG/Yannow give it 1.5, saying that

Drummer Louis Bellson is co-leader on this CD reissue of a Pablo set with percussionist Walfredo De Los Reyes, but it is very much Reyes's set. Actually, there are eight percussionists on this date and, even with the presence of keyboards, two bassists (including the legendary Cachao) and up to three horns (Cat Anderson and Alejandro Vivar on trumpets and Lew Tabackin contributing some flute and tenor), the five selections are essentially percussion displays. This would have been a fun date to see live with all of the colorful sounds being made but, as a pure listening experience, the lack of variety and the emphasis on fairly simple (if dense) rhythmic vamps makes this a surprisingly forgettable affair.

Which tells me that either A) He don't know how to listen/relate to a descarga date such as this one (the "listening" is at best only partially done with the ears and "mind", which I guess destroys the "purity" of the listening. Whatever...) B) For whatever reason, he ignored Clare Fischer's top-of-his-game Rhodes contributions here and/or C) Him & me just got very different opinions about this one.

Oh well.

Pay no attention to the man behind the reputation. If you like "this type thing" (i.e. - descargas, in this case with a bit of "cultural fusion" (Cat Anderson on a descarga date? Oh HELL yeah! Alongside the LEGANDARY El Negro!) and modernity (salsa in 5!) thrown in, hey - this puppy's a stone groove.

Fuck this "pure listening experience" bullshit and take it for what it is - a pure party experience. And not a cheap party neither, no sir. We're talking one of those good parties that make you glad to be alive. This is the only Louie Bellson album I've ever gotten happy about. Ever.

Well worth the search!

[Christiern]

Yannow's goal in life is to have listened to every jazz recording ever made. This, I suspect, is one reason why his reviews so often seem based on a cursory listen. He is, basically, a list compiler and obviously a rather pushy one--Leslie Gourse, where are you now that we still don't need you?

[Stefan Wood]

Stumbled across this little piece o'party the other day:

AMG/Yannow give it 1.5, saying that

Drummer Louis Bellson is co-leader on this CD reissue of a Pablo set with percussionist Walfredo De Los Reyes, but it is very much Reyes's set. Actually, there are eight percussionists on this date and, even with the presence of keyboards, two bassists (including the legendary Cachao) and up to three horns (Cat Anderson and Alejandro Vivar on trumpets and Lew Tabackin contributing some flute and tenor), the five selections are essentially percussion displays. This would have been a fun date to see live with all of the colorful sounds being made but, as a pure listening experience, the lack of variety and the emphasis on fairly simple (if dense) rhythmic vamps makes this a surprisingly forgettable affair.

Which tells me that either A) He don't know how to listen/relate to a descarga date such as this one (the "listening" is at best only partially done with the ears and "mind", which I guess destroys the "purity" of the listening. Whatever...) B) For whatever reason, he ignored Clare Fischer's top-of-his-game Rhodes contributions here and/or C) Him & me just got very different opinions about this one.

Oh well

Pay no attention to the man behind the reputation. If you like "this type thing" (i.e. - descargas, in this case with a bit of "cultural fusion" (Cat Anderson on a descarga date? Oh HELL yeah! Alongside the LEGANDARY El Negro!) and modernity (salsa in 5!) thrown in, hey - this puppy's a stone groove.

Fuck this "pure listening experience" bullshit and take it for what it is - a pure party experience. And not a cheap party neither, no sir. We're talking one of those good parties that make you glad to be alive. This is the only Louie Bellson album I've ever gotten happy about. Ever.

Well worth the search!

I have this on vinyl and it does indeed kick ass! Yannow clearly wasn't paying attention to this one. Latin fans, jazz fans, music lovers should pick this up.

[AllenLowe]

I'm sorry, but I think Yanow is a genius - and I will continue to think this until after he reviews my CD -

Edited August 6, 2008 by AllenLowe

[Niko]

I'm sorry, but I think Yanow is a genius - and I will continue to think this until after he reviews my CD -

what do you think about thom jurek?

( he sure meant well http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&a...10:dzfrxqqhldke )

[Allen Lowe]'s a political cat in that he understands that music is never really free of ideology. This suite and its one or two extra tracks are a cultural attempt to courteously send up the middle finger to the would-be new traditionalist fascists, of which include, at the time this was recorded, Wynton and his cronies, who are most definitely the establishment emissaries of what jazz used to be.

[AllenLowe]

I cannot think of high enough praise for Jurek - god-like -

Edited August 6, 2008 by AllenLowe

[RDK]

I cannot think of high enough praise for Jurek - god-like -

Allen Lowe is one of the most astute jazz musicians on the planet

- Thom Jurek

You should!

[kh1958]

Count Base and Dizzy Gillespie--The Gifted Ones (with Ray Brown and Mickey Roker)--I never even noticed this one before until the oldies.com sale--it's a very pleasant surprise, a very solid date, with Dizzy still having some fire left in his chops (circa 1977), and meshing well with Basie, Brown and Roker. Nice recorded sound also.

[Chuck Nessa]

One of my favorite Pablos.

[Teasing the Korean]

I really love the Machito/Dizzy Gillespie album, although some purists may not like the electric bass/funky aspects.

[colinmce]

I'm astonished no one mentioned this:

[king ubu]

I recently bought a few Basie Pablo albums, the "First Time" and "Second Time" trios, jams and big bands, as well as several of the Basie/Peterson collaborations. Some very nice stuff there! One of the outstanding among them is "Basie Get Together" with Budd Johnson!

[brownie]

An old favorite...

with Norris Turney, Budd Johnson, Norman Simmons, Milt Jackson, etc...

A typically unpretentious Pablo session that had all the musicians in fine form!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

On a more pleasant note, this puppy here ain't nothin' but a kickass jam session. Nothing at all new about it, but you put Dizzy & Bags in the middle of Griff & Jaws, and how are sparks NOT gonna fly?

Hellfire!!!!

Glad this thread got bumped - never heard of that one before! "Oof!" "Wee!" "Pow!" any other titles?

MG

Well, still glad this got bumped again

'Cos I still haven't got this one! Must be more assiduous.

Anyway, I keep forgtting about this gem, which I love, but don't get off the shelf enough.

Milt with Sweets, Jaws and Cleanhead, with Hillery, Marable and Brown. Some very dirty playing here.

MG

[king ubu]

An old favorite...

with Norris Turney, Budd Johnson, Norman Simmons, Milt Jackson, etc...

A typically unpretentious Pablo session that had all the musicians in fine form!

That's indeed a nice one! Found it used a while ago... any of these jams with Budd Johnson turning up seem to be good!

MG, that Milt Jackson looks interesting!

These two are great as well:

Milt Jackson (vibraphone); Teddy Edwards (tenor saxophone); Cedar Walton (piano); Ray Brown (acoustic bass); Billy Higgins (drums)

Recorded at Kosei Nenkin Hall, Tokyo, Japan on March 22 & 23, 1976

[Hot Ptah]

I really love the Machito/Dizzy Gillespie album, although some purists may not like the electric bass/funky aspects.

I love it too, especially the first piece, which made up all of Side 1 in the original vinyl release.

Count Base and Dizzy Gillespie--The Gifted Ones (with Ray Brown and Mickey Roker)--I never even noticed this one before until the oldies.com sale--it's a very pleasant surprise, a very solid date, with Dizzy still having some fire left in his chops (circa 1977), and meshing well with Basie, Brown and Roker. Nice recorded sound also.

I like it too, and I have always thought that Dizzy was wearing a cool shirt in the photo in the inner sleeve of the vinyl LP.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Chuck, compared to what you were offering on your label, yes Pablo overall is conservative. But I still stand by my opinion on that album.

It may be a great album. No value judgement on the recording in my post, but players with styles set in the '40s and early '50s, while grafting on modal styles from the late '50s, recorded in the mid seventies are conservative to me. Had nothing to do with what I recorded.

I don't expect/demand players change, I do expect a clear headed view of the evolution of music.

I'm far from certain that Norman Granz didn't have a clear headed view of the evolution of music; he may well have done. But he had his own preferences and I would expect him to be true to those preferences. So in that sense, he was musically conservative. But I believe he was more conservative than that implies - I think he was entrepreneurially conservative.

I started a thread some time ago, pointing out, about Verve, that almost all the musicians Granz chose to record for Norgran/Clef/Verve were people who had already made their reputations. No jazz musician (except OP) made a reputation recording for Granz. And yet, at the time he was running Verve, musicians with little reputation, but who would have fitted into his preferred aesthetic just dandy, were coming forward, and were ignored - by Granz, not by the likes of Weinstock, Lion, Keepnews, Grauer, Koenig, Bock, Ertegun. OK, someone had to record Wes Montgomery, Willis Jackson, Gene Harris, the Adderleys, Jack McDuff, Jaws' organ combos, Teddy Edwards, Hamp Hawes, Red Holloway, Phineas - the list is very long - but about the only newly emerging musician Granz recorded, for one album only, was Junior Mance (probably because he was in Dizzy's band at the time).

And the same is true of Pablo; I think Jon Faddis and Al Gafa were about the only emerging musicians, working within Granz' general area, who recorded on Pablo. And they didn't make too many albums for him. Norman Granz doesn't seem to have been 'out there' finding talent, helping to bring forward people with new(ish) ideas, even within his own preferred field. Which is not to say that the stuff is bad or anything - it isn't; it's just not terribly exciting, even when it's very good indeed. Maybe this is what Chuck meant by having a clear headed view of the evolution of music; I don't know.

MG

[Mark Stryker]

I don't believe that Count Basie's "I Told You So" (1976) has been mentioned. The big draw here is that the charts were all written by Bill Holman; It's the best Basie big band album from the 70s or 80s that I've heard -- though, caveat emptor, I haven't head them all.

http://www.amazon.com/Told-You-Count-Basie...4835&sr=1-1

[jazzbo]

Allan,

Nice post and insight. I never had connected all those dots.

[mjzee]

So in that sense, he was musically conservative. But I believe he was more conservative than that implies - I think he was entrepreneurially conservative.

I think he was entrepreneurially a populist - he was very conscious of what audiences liked. It is true that he would rather sign an established artist that connected with an audience and that he could grow further through his JATP concerts - think Stan Getz - than untested artists, but Oscar Peterson is the best example of a new artist he signed because Oscar fit right into this approach.

I started a thread some time ago, pointing out, about Verve, that almost all the musicians Granz chose to record for Norgran/Clef/Verve were people who had already made their reputations. No jazz musician (except OP) made a reputation recording for Granz. And yet, at the time he was running Verve, musicians with little reputation, but who would have fitted into his preferred aesthetic just dandy, were coming forward, and were ignored - by Granz, not by the likes of Weinstock, Lion, Keepnews, Grauer, Koenig, Bock, Ertegun. OK, someone had to record Wes Montgomery, Willis Jackson, Gene Harris, the Adderleys, Jack McDuff, Jaws' organ combos, Teddy Edwards, Hamp Hawes, Red Holloway, Phineas - the list is very long - but about the only newly emerging musician Granz recorded, for one album only, was Junior Mance (probably because he was in Dizzy's band at the time).

As with any other theory, there are going to be exceptions. Hank Jones, Kenny Drew... Tal Farlow was a relative unknown, and he had a nice run of albums with Verve. And Verve could be adventurous with Lee Konitz and other third-stream purveyors.

[Chuck Nessa]

I remember a dinner (at a convention for independent labels) where my good friend Bob Porter said "I don't think there's a record producer alive who doesn't think they could make better records with those artists".

[Don Brown]

Looking through this long-running thread I noticed a couple of posters commenting on the Pablo label's less than great sound. I agree that the sound just wasn't up to the standards of labels like Contemporary or United Artists but when Pablo albums were issued in Canada we got even worse sound. In this country Pablos were pressed under license by RCA Canada. I met an engineer who'd worked for RCA in Montreal during the period Pablo LPs were manufactured there. He told me that instead of proper master tapes Granz sent RCA only cassettes as source material. Pretty shoddy way to do business..

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I remember a dinner (at a convention for independent labels) where my good friend Bob Porter said "I don't think there's a record producer alive who doesn't think they could make better records with those artists".

Bob's a great one for sweeping statements. I doubt if Talla Diagne, Cheikh Tidiane Seck or Ibrahima Sylla would be among the record producers who would say that

MG

[crisp]

I started a thread some time ago, pointing out, about Verve, that almost all the musicians Granz chose to record for Norgran/Clef/Verve were people who had already made their reputations.

I think Granz was not so much conservative as unimaginative. He had to have it demonstrated to him which were the good jazz artists by their longevity, reputation or sales. It's been pointed out that his approach to albums was dull: a ballad medley, a blues, one or two well-worn standards... plus a boring "X meets Y" title. No attempt at a concept or shape to the disc at all -- that suggests he lacked imagination, as do the rabble-rousing cutting contests at JATP.

In his defence, though, if he hadn't been around, would anyone have recorded the older swing musicians as extensively and as sympathetically as he did? It seems to me that recording new or vanguard artists is the norm (no pun intended) in jazz, not the exception (and I think your list or producers who did this bears me out).

And Granz certainly made Ella's reputation. At Decca she mostly sang throwaway tunes of the day and those sides are now forgotten, as she might be if that policy had continued. Granz gave Ella quality songs by the likes of Porter and Gershwin and put her with decent musicians. That was probably his one visionary career act.

[Tom in RI]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread but I seem to remember that Pablo's were priced a dollar more than most releases during the 70's (6.98 list compared to 5.98 for most everything else).